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I just recieved my "plains game" rifle. Its a .358 Norma Mag. I am also going to be recieving my "heavy" shortly in .404J. Normally I use alot of IMR 4350, but was wondering what powders would be better suited (if any) to the extreme temperature differences between here in Alberta & Africa? I would like to start off with the best suitable powder "make", and continue to use it everywhere for everything. So would H4350 be better? how 'bout Reloder (I think I have read Reloader would be the worst)?........so what make should a guy go with? Thanx. Rod -------------------------------- "A hunter should not choose the cal, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong" Bob Hagel | ||
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If you believe in the Hodgdon marketing about their "extreme" powders, that might be a way to go. Me, I'm sceptical, so I make sure I develop and/or test my loads under high temperature conditions before I head off to Africa. If you can't find weather as warm as you expect in Africa, let your ammo warm up in the sun inside an MTM plastic box. It also pays to stay away from absolute MAX loads - just to give you a bit of leeway. A round running 50 fps below absolute max is no problem, a bolt that can't be opened in the field is! - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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H4350 is made here in Australia as ADI 2209 and yes the powders are supposed to be heat resistant. 2209 was a good powder in a 358STI I used a few years ago. Worth a try; run a test as mho suggests watching for a sticky bolt. I tend to work up my loads in the Aussie summer........more than compensates for an African winter! Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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cmfic1 Most of my safaris were taken when I was living in Alaska. I used book loads and never had any problems with any of them on safari. I have used IMR-4350, H-4831, H-1OOO, R-15, IMR-4198 and H-4895. For the cartridges you mentioned IMR-4350 might work well for the 358 Norma and R-15 for the 404. I think if you are not pushing to absolute max you will have no problems with any powder. If you leave Canada knowing that you have ultra flat primers or other pressures signs you might be in trouble. Load prudently and you'll be fine. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Talcum. ______________________ RMEF Life Member SCI DRSS Chapuis 9,3/9,3 + 20/20 Simson 12/12/9,3 Zoli 7x57R/12 Kreighoff .470/.470 We band of 9,3ers! The Few. The Pissed. The Taxpayers. | |||
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I honestly believe you have nothing to worry about in powder... Years ago when powder acted up the cartridges were purchased in mass and stored in the countries and the temps there were the cause over long perionds of time.. My reloads have never had any problems... Mike | |||
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I reload a lot in the fall and winter and shoot in the spring and summer and even with the 110 degree (43C) temperatures that we get here in Bakersfield, I've never seen any noticeable pressure issues. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Your choice of H4350 would be a good one, I think. I have used H4350 extensively in my .500 A-Square, including burning it up at the rate of 126 grains per shot fired in 120+ degree African heat with never a problem. RL-15 would be another good choice, IMO. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Here in central Florida I have used IMR 4350 in my .375 exclusively with no problems, and the temp range is from 30 F to 105F. And I'm right at max loadings with 270 & 300 gr. bullets. | |||
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A few years ago I loaded up a bunch of 30-06 with IMR 4350 and H4350 and put them in the freezer overnight. The IMR shot about 100 fps slower than the H4350. I then did a similar test by leaving them on the dash for several hours during the summer. As I recall, there wasn't a huge difference in velocity. My rifle shot more accurately with the IMR powder so that is what I use. 100 fps doesn't make a squat bit of difference in trajectory or impact results. Go with the powder that provides the best accuracy and don't worry about the rest. | |||
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I used RL-15 in my 450 Dakota with max loads at an incredible and verified 120 degrees F in Zimbabwae without difficulty. RL-15 if it is appropriate for your rifle or caliber is probably the most stable of all double base powders. (It replaced the IMR series in 7.62 mm nato match ammo and is used with heavy bullets in the 5.56mm). As a reloader I am impressed that it does not seem to change burning rate when you increase bullet weights, nor is it sensative to a change in bullets, brass or primers like many other double base powders. Andy Andy | |||
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I tried several powders in my 270 Ackley and 375/404. I loaded a few ronds for each, and put them on rocks outside. I also put the rifles outside in the sun. This was in the middle of the summer here in Dubai. Both cartridges and the metal of the rifles became VERY hot to handle. I fired these ammo and could not detect any outward sign of increased pressure. There was nothing scientific about this test. But it convinced me that my loads are perfectly fine to take to Africa. Powders used are from Hodgdon and Alliant. | |||
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I was raised on the Texas border near Presidio, Texas, one of the hotest places in the nation, it and Blythe Calif.... I never experienced this phenomena, and write it off as fantasy and some jerks overloads, folks just like to blame their failings on mother nature I suspect.. I have used IMR-4831 ( my only powder for the .404 btw) and I have hunted Africa with the 404 in 110 plus heat and shot it in West Texas in 125 degrees. I even let it cook on the bench for several hours, then shot it with gloves on and no problems..I did this with my hotest load of 95 grs. of IMR-4831, and I understand some guns won't take that much powder, but all my .404s have. IMO I think you might pick up a couple of thousand PSI with the heat or so I'm told, but if you load your ammo properly that won't mean much... As usual all this stuff is argueable, so that is just my take on the subject. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Regarding IMR Powders and heat, expect about three (3) feet per second change in velocity for each one (1) degree F. of change in teperature. Since some of you will ask how I know this formula, let me say that my mother's family used to make the IMR Powder, and my father was a plant manager for Hercules. I have some of the old company's formulas. For those of you have tested your IMR loads while they are hot, congratulations your are forward thinking to test your loads in your guns at high temperature. For those of you who load and test only at low tempertures and plan on going to Africa, please do some more testing. The IMR Powders are less temperature sensitive than Cordite, but are more temperature sensitive than the H series. Sincerely, E Pluribus Unum - where out of many, we will become one. | |||
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Africa is no different than any place. Heat is heat. But before you get to excited, when and what country are you going to. Many safaris take place in very modertae temperatures. Quite frankly many of my Zim safaris it was rather chilly in the morning and never broke 75 in the day. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Like Mike D says, it just depends on when you go...The later months in Zim and Tanzania can be very hot indeed with temps busting the 110 degree mark. Probably the best advise is don't overload your ammo as 100 or even 200 FPS won't make one bit of difference in killing power, especially on the big stuff... Factory ammo is mild so your always OK on that, well most of the time, there have been exceptions. Also don't leave your gun or ammo lieing out on a rock in the sun unless your testing the heat and thats already been done on this board by several of us so no need.. Common since reigns as usual, but some refuse to practice it... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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That all being said, best performance from a 358Norma will be with propellants like H4350, IMR4350 and Alliant RL19. RL15 is too fast for the 358. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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