What does everyone like in .458 bullets for buff?

I'm ready to start working up loads for my .450 Dakota for next year's buffalo hunt. I expect velocity to be in the 2,350 to 2,450 fps range. Considering 450gr and 500gr Barnes TSX, 500gr Woodleigh, and 450gr Northfork.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Andy

I have shot buff with the 480 Woodleigh Soft and Solid and the 500gr Swift A Frame.

I have shot elephants with the 480 Woodleigh Solid and the 450 North Fork FP Solid.

In the 450 Dakota the NF 450 Soft, Cup Point and Flat Point Solids would be a hard combo to beat.

I helped a local friend get his 450 Dakota loadings sorted out a couple of years ago when he was headed for Tanzania.
He settled on 450gr NFs for the softs and 500gr Woodleighs for solids. His gun wasn't feeding quite right with the NF flat point solids so he went with the Woodys. Those NF softs were pure hell on the three buffalo he collected with them! Loads were pushing those 450s to 2565fps and all three buff were one shot DRTs...solids were used for the insurance shots only. He also shot a croc at 150yds with the 450, and a couple of zebra, IIRC. The NF softs like velocity, the more the better it seems but with the 450 there is a recoil limit for many shooters.

Thanks Guys.

John, do you know if he was able to get the 450gr NFs and the 500gr solids to shoot anywhere near the same POI?

Cheers,
Andy

Yes, he did get them close enough to get by with after adjusting the loads for the solids. IIRC, they were an inch or two apart @ 100yds. If you were to use the NF solids I'd bet the impact would be very close to the softs, if not right in the same group.

You might want to consider the 458, 550 grain Woodleigh soft loaded to around 2,200 fps from your 450 Dakota. That bullet has a sd of .375 and is an awesome round for weight retention and very deep penetration.

465H&H

I would probably choose 450 gr North Fork softs for initial shots esp in herds and then go with the North Fork Cup Nose Solids for all else. On Buff, the Cup Nose gives you all the advantages of solids on all shots with some soft point like wound channels. It has been called the "perfect buff bullet". The only reason Not to just shoot it exclusively would be the fact that it will still exit a higher percentage of times from broad side shots which would make it dangerous to use around a herd.

Andy,

If the 450 TSX will shoot in your rifle you need no other load for everything.

Mark

My preference would be for the 550grn Woodleigh soft and solid bullets at 2200fps from the LOTT.
ozhunter

Andy,

Here is a photo of the 450 and 400 grain North Fork Soft Point shot point blank into 1,600 lb buffalo in november 2005. 2550 fps for 450 grain and 2750 fps for 400 grain.

Both had almost identical penetration.



Few if any bullet in the world could do the same with both bullet weights.

The NF has ALOT more frontal area than a Barnes which is basically a monolithic solid FN after the petals blow off.

I am greatly impressed w the NF and not at all w the Barnes X or Tripple Shlock.

(I do not own stock in either company!)

PS These bullets fired from 450 Dakota at 120 degrees F with RL-15 powder. Good load in a great ctg.

Why would you shoot anything else?

Andy

Andy,

For some reason the PM did not work. Something about the server.

Here is load data for RL-15 in my rifle, with RL-15. Usual cautions apply. (Dont ever use this under any circumstances. Reloading is dangerous!).

Seriously, I have found RL-15 to be a very stable powder in all calibers and bullet weights; 223, 308, 375 and 450 Dakota which follows.

this is older data and does not include some of the newer NF products like the CP, or the new (much lighter) 450 Dakota Brass. This uses the original headstamp.

RL-15

400 gr North Fork

96 gr 2530 fps 3.715 ocl
98 gr 2558 fps 3.715 ocl
100 gr. 2632 fps
102 gr. 2666 fps
104 gr. 2702 fps Just compressed.
104 gr. 2662 fps 3.745 ocl. Federal 215-M.
104 gr. 2676 fps
104 gr. 2698 fps

400 gr Barnes RN Solid

100 gr Error 3.710 ocl
102 gr. 2624 fps
104 gr 2657 fps 3.626 ocl
105 gr. 2683 fps Federal 215-M. Cycled well.
106 gr 2724 fps

425 grain Rhino SSP 3.697 OCL.

96 gr. 2242 fps
98 gr 2331 fps
100 gr 2328 fps
102 gr 2413 fps
104 gr 2426 fps
106 gr 2597 fps
108 gr 2657 fps Probably maximum pressure at this temperature.
110 gr 2707 fps

450 gr Barnes RN Solid

100 gr 2532 fps
100 gr. 2495 fps.
102 gr 2569 fps 3.699 ocl
102 gr. 2553 fps 3.67 ocl Federal 215-M.
103 gr 2602 fps
102 gr 2555 fps
102 gr 2546 fps

450 gr GSFN

100 gr 2453

450 gr Barnes X 3.726 ocl, 2.859 case length. Heavy copper fouling. Don’t use.

96 gr 2379 fps
98 gr 2453 fps
100 gr 2495 fps No compression yet. Primer round on edge flat on surface.

450 gr North Fork

96 gr 2464 fps
98 gr. 2505 fps
100 gr. 2547 fps
100 gr. 2565 fps 3.740 ocl. Very consistant.
2555 fps
2558 fps
2543 fps

450 gr North Fork FN Solid

96 gr 2435 fps 3.725 ocl
98 gr 2498 fps
100 gr 2508 fps

450 gr North Fork FN Solid Truncated Cone.

100 gr 2357 fps 3.725 OCL (2395 fps NF CP, 2430 fps NF SP). Same POI w cold barrel.

450 gr Kodiak RNSP 3.650-3.660 ocl. Try 0.015 off rifling next time. (3.675)

100 gr 2478 2 x 2 ½ inch group. 2.5 square w GSFN.
2488
2491
2469

465 gr A-Square RN Solid 3.647 OCL seated to canelure.

96 gr 2,414 fps ¾ x 1 1/8 inch group with first five shots at 50 yards. On POA.
96 gr 2,398 fps
98 gr 2481 fps
98 gr 2464 fps
100 gr 2513 fps
100gr 2510 fps
100 gr 2557 fps 1 ½ inch Low and On at 100 yards.

485 grain Rhino RN 3.722 -3.731 OCL.

92 gr 2236 fps
94 gr 2334 fps
96 gr 2346 fps
98 gr 2381 fps
100 gr. 2441 fps Good load.

500 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 3.50 ocl (about 0.250 inches below the crimp canelure)

96 gr. 2407 fps
96 gr. 2412 fps
98 gr. 2438 fps

500 gr Swift

96 gr 2372 fps
96 gr 2417 fps
96 gr 2397 fps

Andy,

Thanks a bunch for the data. I've had great luck with RL-15 in my .375. I've got some TSXs coming from Midway and am going to order some NFs next week.

Couple of questions. Have you had any problem with hangfires when using the lighter charges (<100 grains)?

Was the POI for the NF solids close to the soft points when loaded to similar velocities?

How do you know which is the thinner brass? All of my cases are headstamped simply 450 Dakota.

Cheers,
Andy

The new brass has 100 fps less velocity at similar loading densities with my RL-15 loads.

I have never had a hang fire, nor do I want one!

Might be a problem with light loads with a really short bullet like the 400 grain Woodleigh? But I shot those at 2550 fps OK and just 98 grains.

Old brass says 450 Dakota, new brass says dakota arms 450.

Old brass held up to full power 10-12 reloads.

Have not shot new brass that much but seems OK. I took it to Africa because it ws lighter.

Very easy to get NF trilogy lined up, SP, CP, FN.



This was at 100 yards with a 3 X scope just using the same powder charge for each.

Andy

Many thanks to everyone for your input, as usual everyone here is great.

I've got bullets on order and can't wait to get started.

Cheers,
Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
Here is a photo of the 450 and 400 grain North Fork Soft Point shot point blank into 1,600 lb buffalo in november 2005. 2550 fps for 450 grain and 2750 fps for 400 grain.

Both had almost identical penetration.



Few if any bullet in the world could do the same with both bullet weights.

The NF has ALOT more frontal area than a Barnes which is basically a monolithic solid FN after the petals blow off.

I couldnt agree more. I think they are a wonderful bullet.

But I still don't understand why anyone would poo-poo the Swift A-frames because they are too smooth, and then promote the NF softs in the next breath. Your picture is another prime example that that argument makes little sense at all.

I am not wanting to take anything away from the NF's, as I am of the opinion they are both (ie. NFs and SAF's) great bullets.

Cheers,
Canuck

I think the North Fork CUP POINT pictured in one of the previous posts is the greatest dangerous game bullet of all time...I have used it on plainsgame in the 375, 450-400 and the .470 on both plainsgame and buffalo and it excelled in penetration and killing power...I have not used it on elephant as I believe only solids are for elephants..but everything else its my first choice. I also like the heavy for caliber Woodleigh softs such as the 350 gr. 375 and 450 gr. 416 bullets and 550 gr. 45 cal. bullets, they are wonderful killers on broadside shots. The 550 Woodleighs are a bit too much for the short on powder capacity of the std. .458 but they are awesome in the .458 Lott....

Ray,

I agree that the NF CPS are great bullets. I have seen one cape buffalo killed by them and they definitely penetrate!

That is my only precaution about them....even though they must do more damage then a solid, they really penetrate more like a solid than a soft. As such, I would always assume an exit....be careful what lies behind.

When we were sighting in our rifles at the camp on LA1 last year, Don_G shot his 416RemMag and I shot both my 470 Mbogo and 416 Taylor. The target was on a good size tree (about two feet thick), exactly 100yds from the edge of camp. I only took two shots with my Taylor, using NF CUPS. They both completely penetrated the tree. Neither my 470 Mbogo or Don's 416 Rem Mag did that, and in fact, there were no other holes on the backside of that tree from any other bullets....and Lord knows how many bullets were inside that tree, but there were a LOT of holes in the front!

Cheers,
Canuck