http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A209094

CAPE TOWN — Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula has done an about-turn on existing gun licences, with the latest draft legislation insisting that all existing legal guns be relicensed.

The latest version of the Firearms Control Amendment Bill, presented yesterday to Parliament’s safety and security committee, abandons an earlier suggestion that the relicensing process be replaced by a national audit of all legal firearms.

The move is certain to again have gun owners upset.

The draft does an about-turn on the relaxation of the number of weapons that legal gun owners can retain.

Earlier versions of the bill advocated restrictions on the number of weapons applicable only for new applications. This was to avoid having to pay compensation to gun owners for the weapons they would be required to surrender to the state.

After extensive consultation with the gun-owning community, Nqakula published an amendment bill late last year acknowledging the responsible firearms owners who had committed no offences. He undertook to abandon the relicensing programme for the group. However, these provisions have been removed from the latest bill.

Inherent in Nqakula’s about- face is an attempt to forestall civil claims from those who have already lost their firearms as a result of their relicensing applications being refused.

South African Police Service (SAPS) legal adviser Flip Jacobs, in response to MPs’ questions, acknowledged that if relicensing had been scrapped, there was the chance of a flood of civil claims against the police from those who had already got rid of their weapons.

Democratic Alliance MP Roy Jankielsohn said the idea behind the audit to replace relicensing was to deal with backlogs of up to 18 months. He asked if the police were now able to implement the original provisions of the act, which called for about 600000 weapons to be relicensed each year for four years.

Jacobs said there would be a policy review so that responsible firearm owners would have no problem with their relicensing applications. He cautioned that gun owners would still have to sell, surrender or destroy excess weapons before all legal licences expired on June 30 2009.

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald asked how this would be achieved, as it was not contained in the draft bill. Jacobs said it would be part of a policy review on the reasons for refusal.

Martin Hood, spokesman for the South African Gunowners’ Association, said the amendment bill did not address the problems experienced in implementing the act. “They need to admit the mistakes that have been made rather than trying to escape the consequences,†he said.

He said the SAPS had kept “moving the goal postsâ€, creating the sense that the consultations were not in good faith.

Thank heavens for our Second Amendment to the Constitution. All of us should do everything possible to support those organizations that go to bat for gunowners and gun ownership.

South Africa bought this whole legislation from Canada, computer systems and all. The problem is that we do not have enough qualified people to do the job.

With the latest amendments we must still renew our competancy certificates every 5 years. I completed my training, a open book exam on 1 November 2005. I received my SASLEC Seta certificate on 3 May 2006. All they had to do was to feed my name, id number, the code for the catogaries I have done and the training facilities registration number into a computer and print it. It took them 6 months. Now I can apply for my competancy certificate. Form to be completed, safe inspection, interview with my wife on my alcohol uasage and my temper, phone calls to a neighbour and a friend, finger prints and a hell of a long wait.

My fingerprints was recently taken for my accreditation for conducting business in hunting. Not good enough new ones to be checked. My accreditation took 6 months. It will take me approximately 1 year since I started the process before I will be able to apply for a new firearm. If I put the new rifles under my business name I must re apply every 5 years.

What a lot of BS

Americans, You do not know how lucky you are to have a 2nd amendment.

With the previos system I never waited for a gun license for longer than 6 weeks, mo it is a painful frustrating process

quote:

Jaco Human: It will take me approximately 1 year since I started the process before I will be able to apply for a new firearm. If I put the new rifles under my business name I must re apply every 5 years.

Jaco, is this enough to have the PH community consider residing out of country and just coming back for hunting?

Jaywalker

It's about ten times more difficult if you do that......

A friend of mine has gone through the course, and gotten his PH license. You have to come back and hunt every year with a client -- AND you have to have your work permission visa in place if you've changed your nationality. If you retain your nationality and want to own guns in the USA, there are issues doing that in NY unless you have a greencard; if you want to have a long gun stateside, you need a hunting or fishing license (and they can pull your chain about making sure you're there with your gun in season if they decide to make your life miserable -- they haven't done that). Along the same line, NY has pulled people's pistol licenses if they had a pistol stolen if the pistol wasn't in the safe.

Dan

South Africa bought this whole legislation from Canada, computer systems and all. The problem is that we do not have enough qualified people to do the job.

Canada has some of the most screwed up laws concerning firearms that I have heard of. One of my buddies said that to go to the range for a few rounds takes a permit to transport with dates and time of transport to be included. This with the time it takes to get the permit would make me want to leave the country for good. I take my past-time seriously. No time to get permits and have to be home at a certain time before the expired time on my permit to transport. Just how does this reduce crime? Do the criminals get these permits? RSA is following suit with Canada???? Say it isn't so!

Yes, Ottawa spent millions (as did Pretoria) on giving SA 'tips' and letting us buy their model, help implement it, getting it functioning etc. There was an article about this in the Edmonton Journal about 5 months ago or so.
I an currently at grad school in Canada and did the PAL...one can see the similarities between the systems. However, SA's is more stringent (tougher/bereaucratic/cubersome/thorough?? - includes more prac testing) as the PAL is really designed to be fool proof, its like level 1 first aid certs. You will pass unless you kill someone, you would have to be the worlds dumbest individual to fail. I feel it is a good system. For years in SA many were saying were should license the person, not the weapon, other than keep record of who owns what, I guess it just needs to run smoothly and hopefully it will, once the huge initial rush has subsided and the 'kinks' ironed out. I hope so!

Funny thing is, now they are admitting part of their system is a bugger up and scraping the long gun registery. I wonder if they still sell their ideas and methods???

One hears all kinds of theories. One was that for FIFA to award us 2010 Soccer World Cup, we needed to comply with this gun law system...dunno if thats fact.

I can't believe another country actually bought our system. whomever wrote the cheque must have been drunk, or smitten with Allan rock.
FWIW, it looks like the longgun registry is about to get scrapped here.

I was at my local SAPS station yesterday trying for the fourth time to get my application resent to Pretoria (for a second time)

I quote the Captin in charge "this system is a complete F%$k up and waste of time."

If they feel this way then ... where the hell do we go from here

ghundwan,
Where in RSA do you reside?

Beware of the SAPD personel. They often blame the system when they are actually at fault.

Jaco,

I am in Benoni - Agreed they do blame the system. They "forgot" to attach the letter of recommendation from the superintendent at the sending station. However I feel if the system wasn't so cumbersome less errors would occur, or if the staff dealing with the applications actually had proper training.....

If you have any contacts that could help...... please.....

Jissie Boet, Benoni?

Dis my dorp...I grew up there, went to Wordsworth High...used to explore the dams and 'poach' bass in Homestead Dam.
Spent many good years catching snakes and fish in 'plot land'.

Used to live in Farramere.

Cheers

Bliksim, live 500m away from Homestead dam. East Rand Rules.....

No more poaching in Homestead - fishing there is now legal boring.... Willowmoore boy

Kayaker,

I went to school at St Dunstan's Primary in Woburn Avenue. Lived at 10 Rainbow Avenue Farrarmere 1965 to 1975. Every where west of Coleridge was veld clear past Government village through to Jan Smuts, no Mercury Road. Many happy hours biking in the veld, and canoeing on Homestead dam. Used to walk down Daffodil to Bayley and buy bread and milk from the Greek for 10c a loaf and 20c a litre. I wonder if he is still there?

Cheers

pete

Hi All,

I've just joined and been lurking for a few days, but since I'm also in Charlize Theronville I thought I'd say hello in this thread !

I'm based near the Lake golf course, but haven't been around long enough to remember a time before Mercury rd 8-).

A hunting partner spent a frustrating few hours at the police station just this morning trying to get his paper work in order. They told him they've had some new license applications processed in 3 months.

Hope my Brno .270 goes through that quickly !!

Any how back to lurking and learning...

Edit to add: ex Benoni High'er married to a Wordsworth girl

Donder, Benoni ou's coming out the wood work here!

"Kayaker,

I went to school at St Dunstan's Primary in Woburn Avenue. Lived at 10 Rainbow Avenue Farrarmere 1965 to 1975. Every where west of Coleridge was veld clear past Government village through to Jan Smuts, no Mercury Road. Many happy hours biking in the veld, and canoeing on Homestead dam. Used to walk down Daffodil to Bayley and buy bread and milk from the Greek for 10c a loaf and 20c a litre. I wonder if he is still there?

Cheers

pete"

Ja, Pete, those places featured in my Benoni trampings too. I lived on Cambridge Rd and had mates all over there, Blyde Rd, Southy etc etc.

Less vel;d when i grew up there but in Rynfield Benoni AH my mate had 5acres so we used to misbehave in that area. Also used to fish at the bridge where the spruit joins homestead, tiny little creek but used catch 3-4 kg carp on floating bread crust in the reeds, then the town decided to tuern it into a sculpted bird sanctuary and cocked it up badly! Homestead has some good Bass...use tp poach (if thats possible for an invasive alien species?) in the reeds there next to the sailing club

Lots of good memories from there!

Although there have been some very rough times in Zim, at least they can still own guns.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Although there have been some very rough times in Zim, at least they can still own guns.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that....
So can we...just some pain in the ass changes, unlike the 'perfect' holy land.....