The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Ok - What would you change about SCI?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Ok - What would you change about SCI? | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
With all of the harping about Mark "Decide How You Want to Die" Sullivan being booted out of the SCI show followed by a lot of criticism about ethics and "how they spend their money" - I ask the following question in all seriousness - If you could change SCI, what would you recommend be done? | ||
|
| One of Us |
Eliminate the so called "awards" thing...it really burns my ass! Let's face it, these awards go to the members who have the money to buy the required hunts. Besides a guy like Boddington, who I think won something last year, you have to be very wealthy to win these awards. I don't think that there are many construction workers or clerks who have won anything from SCI. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Raise the SCI record book minumums way up. If 7 out of the 8 animals I shot on my first safari made the book, standards are lax. | |||
|
One of Us |
To continue along with the same theme, yet rephrasing it: End the pecker measurin' contest between old, rich, white guys. | |||
|
One of Us |
+1 I just don't know enough about the awards and other things to say. I guess that it stands to reason though that if the award is for say, all the sheep of the world, it would typically only be wealthy men who would accomplish this. That seems more a function of the cost of "elite" hunts in general more then SCI in particular. Again, I know next to nothing about this, so I may be wrong. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Nearly all the record keeping org's spout the same line that record books are "to honor the game animal" blah blah blah. Well, if it's all about the game, why is the hunters name listed? If they want to clean up their ranks, make the listings anonymous. Some people will do anything, to get their name in "the book". Remove that temptation, and a lot of the phony shit would go away. Of course, a lot of members would go away as well, as they'd have to get their egos stroked in some other fashion. Jeff | |||
|
One of Us |
Stop putting the squeeze on outfitters by "encouraging" them to make a donation or be assigned a booth in the Men's room, or worse yet, not be given a booth at all. Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
Their Tony Soprano approach to extortion of exibitors..jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
one of us |
Not allow any officer or official of SCI to accept any compensation of any kind from any vendor member. No free hunts, no discounts, nothing. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1 on the treatment of exhibitors. This last summer SCI began sending me videos I didn't want and asking me to either pay for them or ship them back. And the letters kept coming and coming. Maybe its just me, but in my view that type of marketing is the lowest level of unprofessional behavior for a professional organization. My only option to avoid it seems to be dropping my membership. I'll be refocusing my resources to DSC. Finally, it's interesting Dogcat is interested in my opinions, but after many years, the SCI never has been. | |||
|
One of Us |
Agree 1000000%. I have seen too many videos where the first thing some hunter does upon walking up on the downed animal is whip out his tape measure. Truly pathetic.  ______________________ Age and Treachery Will Always Overcome Youth and Skill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Encourage spouses and children to attend SCI show by letting them in for a nominal fee. | |||
|
one of us |
Listing all the problems with SCI would make this the longest thread AR has ever seen - but the fact is that they are also VERY successful with what they have done. Obviously they know their market well. What would we do without them? And what can we all do to make them improve? Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
the organization is being run in a manner that suits the suits that support it. $55 a year from me doesn't accomplish much. Rich | |||
|
One of Us |
Have an independant audit of their accounts published once a year for their members. | |||
|
One of Us |
Remove the Estate category Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
One of Us |
 +1Why would a customer buy a plains game hunt for $5,000 if he can buy the same hunt for $300 at an auction? This certainly does not benefit the Outfitters. Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1 Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
|
one of us |
I reckon they have the potential to do an awful lot more good for hunters worldwide than they currently do, but I'd like to see them: Abandon the so called donation scheme for the show and just charge a set price for booths.... if necessary on a sliding scale as to location but without the donation. A truly fair, honest, independent and public ethics committee. Clearly published annual accounts that are easy to find and understand. (I'm suprised that isn't already a legal requirement for a society of the magnitude of SCI) As to the inner/outer circle BS, that really doesn't bother me either way. If it makes the blokes happy to carry on with their mutual backslapping etc, then it's no skin off my nose but I'll never be impressed solely by anyone's rank, title or fortune and prefer to judge a man on his real character, merits and abilities..... or lack thereof. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The replies are good and well stated, please keep them coming. My point with this thread is to offer constructive "encourgement" to SCI. They do a lot for hunting, but at times it seems they do a lot for the hunters that want to be recognized. I personally prefer Boone and Crockett or Roland and Ward, but SCI is the "elephant in the room". I believe, as a member of SCI, that we have an obligation to offer ideas to make it a better organization. If the ideas go against your beliefs, there is the Dallas Safari Club and the Houston Safari Club (not a part of SCI) that offer solid programs and do a lot of good. Anyway, keep the ideas coming. | |||
|
| One of Us |
the record book should be for animals only. leave the name of the people out of it. that alone should end o bunch of the egotistical pecker pulling | |||
|
| One of Us |
CODE4 had it right ! That will be the day. Made me chuckle to think about that. Very long odds on that. Dave Fulson | |||
|
| One of Us |
They should set a minimum ammount of the money they earn to be used for on the ground habitat and species improvement projects. I would suggest that the minimum be at least 50% of all dollars earned with the rest spent on operating expenses and for lobbying on gun rights and sport hunting issues. They aren't ever going to raise trophy minimum standards. The more trophys list the more dollars they earn. 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
For CODE4 and Dave, the IRS form 990 is available and contains basically the same information (maybe more) an audited financial statement would contain. Of course these statements would never satasify many of the knuckle drager posters here.  465H&H gee where are they to get money, no record book fees, no donations to hold an auction. I think the best answer to SCI's preceived problems would to have 25 interested AR posters serve on the board and also fill the paying jobs at SCI for say minumun wage. Saeed and Steve could serve as co-chairs of the board and the executive committee could be comprised of African outfitters. | |||
|
| one of us |
Steve, While it will look like this is addressed to you, it is, rather, generic. You have, however, consolidated the other suggestions here so far. Please forgive me for using your post as a template. The "donation scheme for the show": allows them to allocate a limited amount of space between more applicants than can be accomodated. Should you not allow returning exhibitors some preference? Should they not reward someone who does make a donation resulting in income to the SCI providing it with the ability to do what it does? The List of Exhibitor Ranks seems to indicate that some find the investment to their benefit. It is also interesting to note that the majority of exhibitors in the top 20 are not hunting organizations. [a quick glance at the list of exhibitors makes me wonder if hunting organizations are in a minority overall.] The "Ethics Committee": I do not see this mentioned in their Mission Statement anywhere. But surely any group might wish to regulate their membership in some fashion, but publicly? Do you really want all such situations handled publicly? Their annual accounts: are pretty well public and open in general here SCI and on Internal Revenue Form 990. Keep in mind that this is a very small organization. It's entire budget is a small fraction of the NRA or Ducks Unlimited, or even the RMEF. All the income from the convention, and other sales, just does not amount to much in the real world. And , as for the record books, I agree with you, who cares? Who does it hurt or help? What difference do they make? If you don't like them don't use them. Steve, I'm sure this will not change your mind [or Saeed's] but I'll keep putting it out there anyway. It might be more effective to identify things they could do on the conservation side [in the Foundation] than harp on things they should not, in your opinion, continue to do. Me? I'm going hunting! Les | |||
|
| One of Us |
Les, good thoughts. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Why bring logic into it? I have no problem with the award thing,it's not my thing,so who cares. The auctions fund the convention,and have allowed this construction worker a taste of some hunting I otherwise could not afford. I do find it interesting that those that often complain the most don't attend or participate in the convention or otherwise. Dinsdale | |||
|
| One of Us |
Les, Great points. One observation I have on the entire "wildlife conservation" business is that there are dozens and dozens of organizations. I started a 501c3 many years ago for a specific project. I contacted every conservation group I could find (before the internet) and asked each to send me a letter of support for my project. After getting over 100 letters and finishing the project, I contacted them again for a mission statement and financial statement. I was looking for which groups actually contributed to wildlife conservation. I was very suprised at what I learned. The bulk of the groups do what they say they do. About 20% spent 90% of their money on fund raising (Defenders of Wildlife, Sierra Club and a few others at that time). I found that DU spent 75% or so on their mission. I also found that there were several organizations all based in Edgefield, South Carolina. You would be suprised at which ones. They every shared the same building (street address but different suite numbers). I quickly learned that these are businesses not "causes". Another thing is that the majority of the organizaitons had budgets under $2,000,000. Some were over $100 million, but the bulk are small and very insignificant. SCI is mid sized, but not very big in terms of budget. I found that the more paid staff a group had, the more money was spent on fund raising as a percentage of gross receipts. Interesting - seems the paid guys are most interested in continuing to get paid. Anyway, I started this thread to see what ideas are out there. There are plenty. Please continue to share them. | |||
|
| One of Us |
A snr. SCI person told me that 95% of their earnings comes from 5% of their members, and supposedly the others actually cost them money and maybe shouldnt belong to SCI. I found that distasteful. Sadly the organization has earned a reputation for being a money hungry organization. I also feel it might have become too top heavy where only a small portion of the money they collect gets used for what it was intended for and the rest just gets used up in running of the show. I also feel that it has got a reputation for being only for fatcats which many hunters think about it. I did not feel this was the case but perhaps I am wrong after hearing what I did. I do know that there is a lot of chapters in the decline especially in the bigger cities. All said and done here is the deal, DONT JOIN if you have a problem with it, its very easy to bitch and moan, but very few people put their time or money where their mouth is to make it better or change things. After all any org is what you make of it. | |||
|
| one of us |
what the hell is SCI??????????????????????? LIFE IS SHORT..... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I do not like the auction of donated items and do not participate in it. However, I understand the need to raise money. The point of the convention is to raise money from willing buyers/sellers. If you do not like the method, do not participate but send a check as a donation. Trade shows are a fact of life in a capitalistic environment. Buyers like to go to one place to see what is available. The safari conventions provide the venue. The organizers have figured out that they can charge the attendees a high fee for the opportunity to see the 'vendors" and they can charge the vendors a high fee to see the attendees. An odd marriage but it works this way in all levels and types of businesses. Exhibitors are there for one reason - sell hunts or goods. No other reason. Whatever increased sales is what they are there to do. Attendees are there to kick tires and maybe buy a hunt or product. I would be interested to know what percentage of attendees actually buy a hunt. Anyone know? I would interested to hear of another way to raise money if you have an idea. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Safari Club International | |||
|
| one of us |
Les, No problem about your using my post as an example for your reply. The question was 'What would you change about SCI' and my reply was genuine. As I see it, they should indeed reward exhibitors for loyalty but I don't see why a compulsory 'donation' scheme need be part of that because in the long run, no matter where the exhibitors come from it harms the industry and drives prices up unnecessarily etc. As an alternative, why not simply reward the loyalty with either a discount or a better location for a lower price?..... which is just a different kind of discount. Regarding the ethics committee, history has proved that a closed committee of members doesn't even begin to work..... so yes, I think a genuinely independent committee that is open about complaints and findings is absolutely essential for it to have any credence whatsoever. Regarding accounts: I have on previous occasions posted a link to another organisation that handles immense amounts of money worldwide and yet their published accounts are 100 times easier to understand than the SCI ones. I see no reason why SCI couldn't do a similar thing. Regarding their conservation efforts, or lack thereof, When they do well, I say so.... and did say so on my recentish giant sable thread.... however, I chose not to mention that issue on my previous reply because it looks to me that they're currently moving in the right direction on that. Like I said, the original question was 'What would you change about SCI' and I replied with the issues I considered the most important. | |||
|
one of us |
As a long time member I have had issues with SCI. Butt.......... I will state up front I have real problems with anyone who is NOT an SCI members who continue to complain about their policies. Why not join the ranks of SCI and "give um hell"? Or quite wining. Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
|
One of Us |
I'm taking my two oldest kids, ages 10 and 8, and the youth passes are free. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
|
| One of Us |
There is nothing wrong with SCI. There is a whole lot wrong with the members. Don't blame the gun, blame the morons. | |||
|
| one of us |
I'd say it's the opposite. From my experience, the ordinary members are just like the vast majority of hunters..... really nice folks to be around, good fun, excellent company and dead straight. However, to me at least, the leadership/policy makers and their policies/inner/outer circle types are a very different kettle of fish when compared to the average ordinary member(s) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Shakari, A quick scan of the record books and various awards for everything from the big 5 to farm raised kudu with a limp, reveals that there are a hell of a lot of members that are competing to kill just like the evil leadership and their inny or outy circle jerks. Just this one members opinion  | |||
|
| one of us |
I can't disagree with you on that....... as I see it, the record books, whether SCI, RW or any of the others should be an entertainment or an interest rather than the be all and end all of a hunt, and there's no doubt some people take it far too seriously...... however, it's undeniable that most, if not all of the upper echlons of SCI suffer from tape measure disease far more acutely than the average member. The disease is not resticted solely to SCI members though. I guess because they generally have lower standards than RW they probably attract more people that are eager to see their name in a book. I'm not against the record books but I don't like to see people take them too seriously because I think it can ruin the fun of a good hunt. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Stop the Record Book from being a revenue generator and stop all the silly awards. I haven't looked at it recently, but if I recall correctly SCI charges a fee for every animal you want to enter into the record book and has created silly categories of awards. The standards are so low that any "B" quality animal makes it in; hence, they have corrupted and abused the record book. They have taken it from an accounting of the largest animal of the species taked to a "how many times can I get my name listed" in the book contest for how many categories of awards. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Ok - What would you change about SCI?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia