Hunting Africa has been a boyhood dream and I'm at the age now where it needs to happen soon.

I did a search on Yahoo last night for "Hunting Africa" and this site popped up, so I joined.

My question: About 8 months ago I inherited an older M70 bolt action rifle, cartridges, several hundred brass, scabbard & Weaver scope from my now deceased maternal grandfather. It is an older M70 in 358 Norma Magnum. I haven't shot it yet. Don't know anything about this cartridge.

The rifle is a bit worn, but seems to be in great working order. He used it to hunt extensively and from what I have been told harvested several moose with it over the years.

I would like it to be my rifle of choice for my trip to Africa. Is it suitable for this purpose? I have hunted deer sporadically in Pennsylvania where I grew up with an older lever action in 35 Remington over the past 20 years. It has always served me well, but logic would dictate that it won't do for the bigger African antelope I hope to hunt.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Welcome to AR.

Your 358 Mag would be a great caliber if you stay under 250-300 yards with it, as it is not really a flat shooter.

Please contact me at tblauwkamp@superior-sales.com as I have lots of help for a first timers to send you.

Softshu

I use a 35 Whelen and have shot Giraffe, Eland, Kudu, Wildebeest and a lot of other plainsgame with that so it shouldn't be any problem.

Thanks for the welcome and information. I'm here at work so I can check here every hour or so. I don't access the web much at home, get too much of computers on the job.

quote:

Originally posted by softshu:
My question: About 8 months ago I inherited an older M70 bolt action rifle, cartridges, several hundred brass, scabbard & Weaver scope from my now deceased maternal grandfather. It is an older M70 in 358 Norma Magnum. I haven't shot it yet. Don't know anything about this cartridge.

The rifle is a bit worn, but seems to be in great working order. He used it to hunt extensively and from what I have been told harvested several moose with it over the years.

What a great idea! Hunting with a family heirloom will make the safari even more special!

What you do need to do before you go - or even before you make up your mind about which rifle to bring along, is to make yourself totally familiar with the rifle. Embark on a training program - make sure the rifle functions reliably (even more important than accuracy, although it would be nice to have at least a minimum of that as well), and make sure you can shoot it well from field positions - it will recoil more than the rifle you are used to.

If that goes well, start thinking about the ammo you want to shoot in Africa, and make sure it functions flawlessly in the rifle (feeding, firing and last but not least accuracy). All this needs to be done in time for a switch - should the need arise.

Good luck - mike

One point to think about… A .358 is NOT SUITABLE for dangerous game and not even legal for dangerous game in most African countries.

It would however, be a suitable cartridge for plans game at moderate ranges. Keep in mind that African game is much tougher than North American game. A kudu is a lot tougher than a moose.

quote:

Originally posted by Crosshairs:
One point to think about… A .358 is NOT SUITABLE for dangerous game and not even legal for dangerous game in most African countries.

Good point.

quote:

It would however, be a suitable cartridge for plans game at moderate ranges. Keep in mind that African game is much tougher than North American game. A kudu is a lot tougher than a moose.

I think the .358 Norma Mag would easily be suitable for all plainsgame at most African distances. Some African game is pretty tough, but this supposed toughness should not be taken out of proportion. Any rifle capable of taking elk cleanly will take most if not all African plains game - certainly Kudu, which are not particularly hard. Gemsbok, Hartebeast, Zebra would be better examples of tough PG. The .30-06 falls into that "do it all" category, and the .358 Norma Mag easily does.

But hey, some people like shooting bigger guns. Power to them for that choice.
- mike

Crosshairs,

Just to clarify, in your experience, what would be a moderate range for the larger African antelope, like the kudu you mentioned, with the 358 Norma Magnum?

In my limited experience, for whitetail deer in PA with my 35 Remington lever action, 100 yards was about my limit, but given the topography and thick cover there, that was often the exception instead of the rule.

Thanks for the comment.

The .350 Rigby Magnum was a classic African cartridge. So anything it could do, the .358 Norma could do as well.

Welcome!

mho has it right.

The .358 Norma Magnum will handle ALL plains game in ALL african countries at ranges farther than 95% of hunters can accurately shoot at. This included Eland and any other plains game that might be considered "tough".

quote:

Just to clarify, in your experience, what would be a moderate range for the larger African antelope, like the kudu you mentioned, with the 358 Norma Magnum?

Moderate range is subjective. To answer your question, if you can accurately shoot that far, the .358 Norma Magnum can easily handle Kudu at 400 yards. Keep in mind, that is with proper field practice at that range, a tuned handload with a premium bullet or a tuned factory load with a premium bullet...

All of that to say, aside from Rhino, Elephant, hippo hunting on land and Cape Buffalo, you are not undergunned at any sensible range for anything else in the world. It will handle big bears, leopard and where "legal" , even Lion.

softshu,

The answer to your question is variable. In some areas most of the shooting would be longer range than you're used to, others pretty much the same as you're used to. You can have great influence on the expected range when you choose your hunt location.

Practice can extend your range, just don't get stuck at the bench; there are no benches in the bush. You will need to learn to shoot off sticks and from other field positions and to do it quickly. Unlike others, I had the oportunity to go prone a couple of times for longer shots and it really helps. 200yds is a long, long shot for me; I'm happiest shooting deer around here at under 100yds and preferably alot less than that. I did fine in Zim on the plains game I hunted, with most shots under 100yds. I had to pass on some shots some of our members would consider routine but it wasn't the end of the world.

More oportunities were lost to time than to range. When I go back, I will have worked first on cutting down the time it takes from the decision to shoot to getting the rifle on the sticks to the pull of the trigger; second on extending my range.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by softshu:
Crosshairs,

Just to clarify, in your experience, what would be a moderate range for the larger African antelope, like the kudu you mentioned, with the 358 Norma Magnum?

In my limited experience, for whitetail deer in PA with my 35 Remington lever action, 100 yards was about my limit, but given the topography and thick cover there, that was often the exception instead of the rule.

Thanks for the comment.

Welcome to AR Softshu! If you are intersted in African hunting this "IS" the place!

The 358 Norma Mag in a Model 70 Winchester is a very fine choice for African plains game. With proper bullets, it wll handle all the so-called plains game, including Eland, which is bigger than a Cape Buffalo, but I would stay off the shoulder, and shoot for the heart/lung area just behind the shoulder. An Eland's shouler bones, an hide are as tough as nails, and a good bullet in a 375 H&H will sometimes not penatrate. Don't let anyone tell you African game is no tougher than American game, because it is, right down the the little dik dik antelope. The Kudu is probably the least hardy of them, but he can take some hitting as well. This comes from thousands of years of being chased by lions, and Leopard, and the adrenalin fueled tenasity of life, has to be seen to be believed. All this means is, one must place bullets properly, and use quality bullets, and they fall.

Even in open country your shots will mostly be under 200 yds, and in any bush where you have to look hard to see you quary, the shots will likely be in the 75- 150 yd range. The longest shot I've personally taken in Africa is just under 250 yds, and that was on a running wildebeast that was already shot,not hit well, and was leaving the country.

The Mod 70 is an African classic rifle, and every wear mark on it just makes it more "AFRICA". The 358 Norma Mag will likely be a handloading proposition, if you want good ammo, with proper bullets. Ammo for the Norma Mags is not found on every store shelf, and if factory ammo is to be used, then it will likely have to be ordered, from a Norma dealer.

Give Blaucamp your info so he can send you his info, it is worth reading, and I think you will find it helpful! Again, Welcome to Accurate Reloading!

Allow me to elaborate… I fired off a quick answer because another matter hit my desk.

A .358 Norma Mag will cleanly kill all African plains game. My comments about moderate range are about the long range potential of a 250 gr. .358 caliber bullet with a MV of 2700 – 2800 fps. That is not a long range caliber. For most plains game that won’t be an issue but if you are hunting gemsbok in Namibia it may not be the optimal round. By the same token… A .375 H&H is not optimal for that either and for the same reason. My comments were not about energy… more about speed and ballistic coefficient.

Also.. a kudu may not have been the best illustration but a gemsbok is significantly tougher than an elk, in my opinion, and I’ve shot several of each. Another illustration… I shot a waterbuck twice with a .375 H&H and 300 gr. Partitions and neither exited. The first shot was about 100 yards and the second was a finisher at 10 yards. I also shot a kudu with the same round and it did not exit although it went in behind the ribs and lodged in the off shoulder. African animals are just tough and they are tenacious for life.

With that said… GO FOR IT! That rifle/round will work just fine… just limit your shots to a range that you are sure you can hit a pie plate. It would be so cool hunting with your grandfather’s gun. That is worth more than words can describe.

softshu,
We all have varying experiences on the toughness of different animals, and I will say based on my limited experience that African plainsgame appear to be tougher than their American counterparts of like size. However, using a 300 H&H and 338 Win Mag on Kudu, Eland, Sable, Nyala and Waterbuck, I had exits on every shot I took, save the Waterbuck (very tough animal) and two shots on the Eland. The Eland absorbed a lot of punishment from the 338, but the bullets did exit after breaking his shoulder on the joint. He still managed to get about 100 yards with two slugs through his shoulder and one through the heart and lungs before I put a shot in his spine to anchor him. I used heavy for caliber bullets of premium construction, shot for big bones and lots penetration without problems.

Having said that, I doubt I go back for plainsgame without a 375 H&H in my hands because of run-ins with Cape Buffalo and Elephants.

Your 358 Norma Mag with top quality bullets (something like North Fork or Barnes TSX or Nosler Partitions) should do fine for plainsgame up to and including Eland. Whatever you choose for your rifle, practice with it and practice some more. Send a lot of shots downrange from shooting sticks before going.

Above all, go! It is a wonderful experience. Something you will always remember.

Regarding DPhillips comments on run in with cape buffalo and elephants. There are lots of places to hunt plains game where this is not going to be a factor. That said, when I hunted in the Save Conservancy in Zim we had plenty of run ins with elephants, and they are agressive there. I agree with him on the 375H&H for that situation. A soft up the spout and solids below.

JPK

softshu,

Welcome to the forum! By and large everybody around here will be more than helpful and if anything you'll have too much well meaning advice!

As to your rifle, it sounds perfect for plains game..Alot of plainsgame (including Eland and Kudu) are taken every year with the 30-06, so I don't see any problems with your .35cal..

Do you reload at all? If so, work up an accurate load with a premium bullet of the appropriate construction and you'll do fine...

Before you go, just make sure your familiar with the rifle and that it does not have any hidden quirks or problems. Maybe get a good gunsmith to give it a once over just to be on the safe side.

If you plan on taking just the one rifle, it might be an idea to put that weaver scope into QD mounts and then take a second pre tested, pre zeroed scope as a spare..Some thing like a 4x32 Leupold in Warne or Tally QD mounts would be ideal.

As to range, like you, most of my shooting back home is fairly short range..When I went over to RSA the longest shot I took was 180yards or so...If you can practice out to 200yards or 250yards before you go, I think you will be fine..

Regards,

Pete

Softshu, from one Pa hunter to another..Welcome to the forum...That rifle will do just fine on any African plains game...Throwing a 200gr bullet in the 35cal will knock them right off their feet...With reloaded ammo it will be superb..
If you hunt the Limpopo area of RSA your shots will be closer and your rifle will shine..

Mike Podwika
Mayor

Welcome to the forum from a long tme PA deer hunter. You no doubt have already noticed that you'll get a wide range of responses, many are very good and some are hear-say type answers that some no doubt read about in Sports Afield. In my opinion the 358 Norma Mag is as good as it gets for plains game. In fact it may be a little too powerful for practical purposes when used for all but the larger plains game say 400+ pounds. I do believe that African game is tough but I've had plenty of the "super beasts" fall in their tracks(including cape buffalo) as easily as white tailed deer. There is very little difference between the 358 NM and 375 H&H. In fact there is a much greater difference between the 338 Win Mag and the 358NM or if you prefer an enormous differece between the 416s and 375 H&H. I have had great success with the 338 on all plains game and leopard I see no reason why the 358NM wouldn't. If you're hunting an area where thick skined DG is around, throw a couple of solids in and if you can get a killing shot with a 375 H&H you'll get a killing shot with a 358 Norma Mag. I would shoot 250gr bullets of stout construction and won't hesitate to shoot 300yds...my self imposed max range, not the rifles. I can't help feeling that (unless I missed something) that many of the replies may have been thinking 358 winchester....a considerably different cartridge.

If you hunt SA where there is little chance of encountering dangerous game it really doesn't matter what you use.

I've always used nothing less than a 375 H&H on plainsgame and dangerous game and it always worked, sort of.

A 358 NM will do everything a 9.3x62 will, and maybe then some. The 9.3x62 is much hailed as a fine all purpose African cartridge, particularly for plains game. Do a search on this forum or Big Bores on the 9.3x62...you'll easily see how highly regarded it is.

Unless DG are on the menu for you, I doubt you'll find the big Norma to be lacking in any way....and it wouldn't be legal for that purpose anyway.

It would be very cool to use Grandpa's old rifle for a trip to Africa!

Cheers,
Canuck

The .358 orma Mag in a M-70 is a very powerful and very long range cartridge. It's power rivals that of the .375 H&H and will suit you fine for any of the plains game you want to hunt.

It's not for elephants or Rhino.....but in some circumstances if you PH approves it can even be used for cape buffalo.

It's not legal for that use and most here will advise against it but I've read many accounts of Cape Buff being taken with less. Find a reloader that can get you some premium bullets and take that old Winchester to Africa...it's totally adeqate for all but the biggest and heaviest.