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Trofic-hunter. The problem with your take on this is HUNTING IS NATURE, regardless of the tool used to do it. Humans are natural hunters just the same as any other predator (read meat eaters)! The use of the name "GUN NUT" in any discussion about hunting with anti hunters is not a good idea because they give the name a different meaning that it was intended to have. Unfortunately the "GUN NUT" phrase was invented by gun owners, and is no more derogatory than "CAR NUT" which like "GUN NUT" simply means guns or cars are a person's hobby. In both cases these terms are misunderstood by folks that are neither car or gun enthusiasts, but the true meaning is understood by hunters or simply gun collectors. The antis unfortunately thinks this is meant to describe a crazy person with a gun. Nothing could be farther from the truth! I agree that sometimes both NRA, and all other hunting and shooting organizations come on a little strong with folks who are simply not aware of the facts instead of calmly explaining those facts in a friendly manner instead of insulting those who simply do not understand. However, I too believe an answer to their misunderstanding should be timely, not put off till things get out of hand like the lion thing! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I say "hunting is a way to experience nature" and you counter (in all caps) with "HUNTING IS NATURE". C'mon man ... what's the difference? ... and who cares? ... and please don't lecture me on "Humans are natural hunters" bit. I could write a book about it. I don't think we disagree on any of that. What I do think is that my use of term "Gun-nut" bothers you. You write that "The use of the name 'GUN NUT' in any discussion about hunting with anti hunters is not a good idea". Again we agree - because I didn't use it in a discussion with anti-hunters. I used it in a conversation with y'all. But if the NRA got more involved, the words "hunter" and "gun-nut" would become one-and-the-same in the eyes of the general public - which already views NRA members as gun-nuts. :: :: :: And as for MJines comments about SCI being clueless - again I agree! Neither SCI's obsession with trophies nor the NRA's obsession with guns is good for hunting. What is needed is an entirely new approach - based on (amongst other things) humankind's inherent need to experience nature, the immense benefits which hunting provides, and the fact that virtually every other human activity has a negative impact on the environment - while hunting has a net-positive impact. You guys are so f***king old-school it makes my head spin. Get real. This is the 21st century for Christ sake. You've got to change yourselves if you want to change the message ... (Oops, wrong thread).  <> <> <> | |||
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I think we agree far more than not! That is, now that you have told me what is true instead of what I think. I really agree with your concept above naming me as OLD SCHOOL! That is most likely very true, simply because #1 I am old, and #2 hunting is old. Hunting has changed only in method in thousands of years while the benefit to humans, and wild life has only changed in the minds of the so called new thinkers! .............................................................Very old!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I'm pretty old myself. 63+ anyway. Best ... ... <> <> <> | |||
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............. Trophic you're just a kid! I was 15 yrs old when you were born! However you are right, nobody is too old to learn something he/she was not aware of before! ..................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I could not careless what the idiots in the media think! I hunt because I like hunting. And if that upsets them, that is their problem, not mine! How many times have I mentioned this. What sort of people, who have absolutely no purpose in their own lives, but go out of their way to complain about others doing what they enjoy?? | |||
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I like many have been very vocal about SCI's lack of response on almost anything - after 20 years of participation at their conventions and Chapter banquets it remains safe to say they dont care about exhibitors or members other than those working towards the hunting awards. But one message that has come out stronger and stronger at all meetings and workshops responding to the bad publicity and attack against hunting is the need for ALL hunters to refrain from fragmenting our coalition by throwing any member/organization under the bus publicly - the anti hunters use this as one of their main divide and conquor tactics. We need to start directing our frustration through appropriate channels. The AR forum may be one of these but it is a open forum read by the enemy. | |||
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Exactly. I've often thought of these types (on a variety of subjects, not just hunting) "What's missing in your life that you feel the need to control mine?" | |||
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Great point! Joe | |||
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Uhm ... it's pretty much standard fare in virtually every religion. <> <> <> | |||
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Mr. Jines is correct. NRA politically knows how to get things done and there may lie our last best hope. Greetings from Zim. Jeff | |||
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The NRA’s mission does not include defending our ability to hunt in another country. In fact, the numbers I’ve gathered do not warrant it becoming too involved with protecting our domestic hunting rights. As executive director, Wayne LaPierre (or anyone else who holds that post) would best serve the organization by concentrating on bringing recreational shooters and those who own guns for self defense into its fold. U.S. POPULATION OVER AGE 18: 235 million ALL GUN OWNERS: 108 million OWN A GUN FOR SELF DEFENSE: 61 million RECREATIONAL SHOOTERS: 30 million LICENSE-BUYING HUNTERS: 14 million (includes 1.6 million who hunt only with bows) COMPETITIVE FIREARMS SHOOTERS: 6 million NRA MEMBERSHIP: 4.5 million Estimates are from Smith & Wesson, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Archery Trade Association, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, and National Rifle Association websites. I could find no data on the number of Americans who hunt outside the country with firearms each year, but I'm guessing it is fewer than 100,000. Bill Quimby | |||
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Thankfully the Hunters Leadership Forum created by the NRA sees the issue differently. The NRA is the only organization capable of leading this fight. DSC is not equipped to lead the effort. SCI is too busy fretting about the convention, advertising sponsorships and awards, to make any difference. No, it comes down to the NRA in my view and the signs continue to point to them gearing up. I think it is good for the NRA too. An excellent way for them to expand their portfolio. Maybe down the road we will be talking about attending the NRA Hunting Convention and not SCI. We can continue to hope. (By the way, it was LaPierre in April who said that elephants lead to deer and that we have to take the fight to the culture of America. So the implications of international hunting issues do not seem to be lost on the NRA.) Mike | |||
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Here is one more statistic: ........NRA is America's oldest open-membership organization of hunters and its largest. In surveys, about 75 percent of the membership identify themselves as hunters, which amounts to 3.75 million current members. No wonder that for 42 years, NRA members have made American Hunter the world's largest hunting magazine. http://www.americanhunter.org/...rs-leadership-forum/ I think the NRA can rally support from all hunters and make them understand the anti-hunters will not stop until all hunting is banned. To Mr. Jines point the NRA is also a participant in the lawsuit banning ivory importation from Zimbabwe. | |||
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Mike: Another reason for why I went from being a Life Member to an Endowment Member of the NRA earlier this year.  | |||
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When I was in the US in the early 80's, it was just after my first African safari. I joined 3 organizations for life. The ATA, the NRA and SCI. I suggest everyone who is interested in hunting and shooting - and those who value the choice of owning and using firearms - join the NRA. DSC would be my choice of big game hunting organization. I would not touch SCI with a bargepole in its current incarnation. | |||
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I'm a member of most, if not all of the organizations mentioned. I have a unique, somewhat different, but completely logical proposition: What if the leadership of these various organizations had a meeting and came up with a coordinated game plan? | |||
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Great idea . . . in theory. I know that SCI gives lip service to coordinating with the NRA on certain issues but in reality my sense is they do very little meaningful coordination. Too much at stake in terms of risking the fiefdom to coordinate with someone else. Mike | |||
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You are right Mike. The trouble with SCI is that they rot has been going on for so many years, I honestly doubt that we can ever get rid of it. The only way is to change the whole silly system they had created, fire all those bozos, and start with a new sheet. | |||
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Saeed: Let's forget any distrust/hatred of SCI. Let's recognize our common interest. I think your support could be to the better. | |||
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Sadly, I have given up on those clowns running SCI. I di hope that we will see some positive change, but, after waiting so many years, my patience has run out. Each time they say something, it is normally worse than what they had said before! | |||
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One problem with SCI as with many volunteer organizations is that it is staff driven. Elected "leaders" come and go with short terms while the institutional memory of the staff and their bloated salaries drive they path of the organization. First for Money is the true mission statement. Essentially they have become marginalized in the fight for hunters rights. Jeff | |||
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The hunting industry in Africa is attempting to co-ordinate and combine into a COALITION FOR CONSERVATION - something Shane Mulhoney identified and wrote about in 2012 , the basis is that we need to form a strong coalition amongst all interested and affected parties. * We need to go back to the definitions of fair chase and ethical hunting * We need to initiate a response team/panel of professionals to counter any negative media. * We need to engage a public relations consultancy to co-ordinate getting all the good stories out there into the public domain. * All organizations must ensure their best Practices / Code of Conduct are up to date and signed by all members. * Benefits for communities living with and adjacent to wildlife must be overhauled to ensure maximum tangible benefit. These were some of the points brought up Resource Africa in preperation for CITIES. | |||
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That sums up the problem. | |||
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