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Guys, and Balla Balla in particular if he is watching, I have a couple of quick questions. Balla posted once that a good rule of thumb for pricing a safari was $1k a day, US, but that I think was for plains game. I know it is no substitute for a detailed breakdown (I am creating a spreadsheet) but my first question is: 1. Does anybody have an idea of a good rule of thumb breakdown for a mixed bag hunt, buffalo with some plains game. Tanzania I think since that seems to be the place most of tghe guys here say the best buffs are. Oh, my wife would be along too, and would want to do some sightseeing or such while I am doing the dangerous game portion. (I have this on the spreadsheet as 175 a day right now) 2. Does it make a difference in cost, bringing the overall down significantly, if there are two hunters in the party? If I got my stepfather to go it would end up two hunters on buff and three on plains since my mom would want to shoot a couple of things. This is all just for reference and use in negotiationg something with the wife, I told her I wanted to get all the information together and look at booking for 07 or 08. That brings up one more thing, she is a teacher so it would have to be between mid-june through mid-august or during the Christmas time. What are the best times to hunt Tanzania? Thanks as always guys. Red | ||
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Dago, email me at the addy below...I have the spreadsheet already built. Here is what it looks like for Tanzania...I also have one for Zim...  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Generally you save just 50 bucks per day, but in some cases up to 150 per day, but is false economy because (a) you hunt half as much, and (b) the chances of 2 people being compatible in terms of interest, physical ability and dedication for a 2x1 are very slim. | |||
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A fewof corrections on Mike's spreadsheet: 1- a 10 day license is $450 not $600 which is for 14, 16 or 21 day licenses. 2- There is a Gov trophy fee of $200 on a 10 day permit unless that is taken into account in your $1000 figure under dipping and packing? 3- Your spreadhseet assumes that an observer does not pay a daily fee. while this is a negotiable item, most outfitter start off charging for this. Dago, If there are 3 of you wanting to shoot, you need to have a minimum of 2 PH's. I would suggest you ask for a 1x1 and your Stepfather and wife can share on a 2x1 which is often a couple of gran cheaper on a 10 day trip. Hunting season in Tz starts 1st July. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Bwanamich, The above was just an example and does not include an observer at all. While I know Dago is not a math genius...cause he is a Dago like me...I figure he would "figure" that out. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well, I think I am going to plan it on my own. My stepfatehr is the type that reads it in a magazine and then can't get it out of his head. he's read about great plains games hunts in Namibia and the pricing there. too much trouble to try and plan his dream hunt and one for myself as well. If it is really going to run to 20k though I might have to leave off Buff and go to Namibia, wife won't go for it. Mike, e-mail on its way to you. Red | |||
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The only honest way to hunt 2x1 is with Father and son or with huband and wife. Or two absolute best mates on a really long safari. Me and my father have a hard enough time figuring out who is going to shoot when we hunt together. Dad has never killed a antelope doe with horns. I whacked one when it was his turn and he told me to shoot her and it turned out she had 5 inch horns. So there's dad happy for his son but with twisted guts. As he's hunted his whole lifetime and killed a ton of antelope but no horned does. I abosolutly can't hunt with my uncle, you would never get a shot off. Especially when the fucker has spent a month bow hunting elk before I get there, so in his mind everything belongs to him. If I took my father to Africa, I would want to hunt 2x1, only because dad has never been. I do enjoy his company while hunting and that's a great experience. 2x1 hunts for one specie hunts in the states or Canada are better 1x1. Another bad situation would occour when you have two nimrods that want the same animals. Let's say since I have been to Africa before I am looking for a 55 and above Kudu. Whilst dad wants any kudu. The first Kudu we see is 60, the old man wants to shoot it and does. Then it's day 10 and we haven't seen another kudu over 52. While I would be super happy for my father, I am going nuts inside not wanting to shoot a smaller bull and holding out. I think it's fine to hunt 2x1 if you make the safari at least 20% longer. That way more oppurtunitys will come. | |||
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And if you make the hunt longer (and it should be as long as possible) the price goes up so you still might want to opt for a shorter hunt 1x1. I´ve never done a 2x1 hunt but I have a couple of friends that I´m sure I could do it with -what they think I don´t know! | |||
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My son and I went on our first hunt to Namibia in 2005. We did 8 days of hunting. Four days 2 x 1 and four days 1 x 1. It ended up being a good mix. The PH/Owners were flexible on what we were able to do. The struggle was that I wantd to see him in 'action' but also wanted to give him a little space ...he was 16 years old at the time. Upon reflection I wish I was there when he shot his 39" Gemsbok and a couple of good trophies. I am sure it will work out. Just go and enjoy yourself. | |||
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Hello Red & other guests / That rule of thumb for plains game only hunts which you mention is essentially still valid / if you allow $1000/day that will cover you for from departure from home to return inclusive of airfares. I DONT have a (rule of thumb formala) for dangerious game or DG/Plains game combined, as these hunts are toooooo diverse to guestemate. DG hunts vary quite considerably dependant upon the COUNTRY .... whether a RANCH or CONCESSION hunt ... and finally the particular OPERATOR IMHO hunters need to do a (lot more homework) when considering a DG hunt, it is not something that you should do without asking a lot more pertinent questions. I personally dont know what Concession licence holders are offering in Zambia, suffice to say I doubt it it will be more cost effective than our ranch hunts .... BUT it depends upon their set up and financial position, as to those uninformed on SAFARI HUNTING in Southern Africa, IT IS becoming (very costly) for the operators or outfitters as our local economies (creak at the seams) and local governments increase our fees to operate and secure the necessary licences ... Enough of my crocodile tears. These are our (present 2006 prices) and options to enable us to keep in business ( subject to change if government shocks us and increases any fees ) OPTION NUMBER ONE ]]]]]] PACKAGE A] Cape buffalo special - 5-days plus the arrival day (1x1) 7950 - basic special package price, includes 1 x cape buffalo bull specie 1250 - private 3-pax plane --*air charter ex: Livingstone - Ngoma – Livingstone 200 - non-hunting arrival day, sighting in the rifle & settle into camp 150 - rifle import export permit fee / OR the loan of a suitable rifle & ammunition 750 - dip pack crate & consignement documentation, for *1 buff & 3 plains game -------- $ 10300 - total per hunter client, plus any (optional extras) as per the info below PACKAGE B] Cape buffalo special - 5-days plus the arrival day (2x1 or 4x2) 7450 - basic special package price, includes 1 x cape buffalo bull specie 625 - private 3-pax plane -- *air charter ex: Livingstone - Ngoma - Livingstone 200 - non-hunting arrival day, sighting in the rifle & settle into camp 150 - rifle import export permit fee / OR the loan of a suitable rifle & ammunition 750 - dip pack crate & consignement documentation, for *1 buff & 3 plains game ------ $ 9175 - total per hunter client, plus any (optional extras) as per the info below SPECIAL PACKAGE C] cape buffalo Cow (2x1) - 5-days plus the arrival & depart day ------- $ 3950 - special pack price per hunter - includes 1 x cape buff cow specie & arrival day ( OPTIONAL EXTRAS & ADD ON FEES ) applicable on packages or daily rate hunts $ 2750 - you can also hunt a 2nd cape buffalo bull - optional extra - 1 only allowed $ 1500 - option to hunt some cape buffalo females - optional extra - 1 to 3 allowed $ 200 - per day for any non-hunting observer guests who might accompany hunters $ 425 - share twin or $ 375 single - overnight B&B Zambezi Sun Hotel, Livingstone $ 625 - share twin or $ 575 single - overnight B&B The Royal Livingstone VIP Hotel $ 100 *surcharge per animal additional to the $750 dip pack if more than 4 species $ 150 - est. pp. Livingstone (airport - hotel – airport) transfers & Zambia entry visa $ 6 - per minute flat rate -- satellite phone calls for emergencies or as requested $ specie fees for any plains game as taken OPTION NUMBER TWO ]]]]] Cape buffalo/plains game [special 12-day pack] includes arrival & depart day $ 1000/day 1x1 + rifle permit + specie fees + charter + dip pack freight + livingstone acomm $ 900/day 2x1 + rifle permit + specie fees + charter + dip pack freight + livingstone acomm [includes 10-days hunting] within package : hunt cape buffalo + options to take sable roan leopard or any other plains game. Minimum [10-day charge @ $1000/day] plus the specie fees as taken. Hunters can however depart from the ranch anytime prior to the (12-day) period if/as required Sable & Roan hunts are limited, we only offer a couple of these hunts per year and Leopard are not guaranteed as they TEND to come and go on the ranch /// species fees (of cource) only charged on those species taken or wounded OPTION NUMBER THREE ]]]] 16-day SA / Zambia SPECIAL two country classic hunts - POA WE sometimes will do a (special classic) for clients which includes hunting plains game with us in SA and then travelling trans Southern Africa to Zambia ( maybe by road if interested ) and hunting cape buffalo + other species at Dendro Park Ranch in Zambia /// this is an exclusive package which we will consider on a case by case basis In South Africa we charge ( plains game hunts) $375/day 1x1 .... $325/day 2x1 and observer guests @ $175/day ... Specie fees and dip pack and ship extra. In South Africa WE are in a Malaria Free Zone and it is congenial for wives girfriends and kids. In Zambia it is for the more hardy types as we are deep bush with mosquitoes and tsetsi flies to boot (-: That about covers the options we can offer, have a wonderful 2006 with whomever you decide to hunt with  Cheers, Peter | |||
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My rule of thumb for dangerous game is $1750 a day +/- 10% depending on country. Plus 10% for Tanzania & - 10% for Zim...this is one on one no observer and includes a buff and a moderate amout of plains game.  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have questions about the 2x1, I am planning a trip to Namibia or RSA in 2007 with my son(18), neither of us has been to Africa and in truth we are just a couple of Canadian meat hunters. he will be going off to University that fall and it's kind of a reward for both of us. I had just asummed it would be better off for us to hunt together, we always have. what do you guys think, should we split up some of the time and be together some of the time? Our hunt will likely be a plans game package of some sort, both of us would like a Kudu, I would like a Gemsbuck, then neither of us is to picky after that, Wilebeest, hartebeest maybe zebra or impala. 1X1 or 2X1 | |||
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