I, generally, do not speak of my clients for their privacy's sake, and I don't generally find it to be in good form, but from every PH and outfitter here, I urge all of you to PRACTICE SHOOTING! Get off the bench and put more than one box of ammo down the range long before you come on the hunt. We just had a client shoot 56 rounds of ammo in 6 days to take 5 animals. That was too much. Easy 100yd shot were completely stuffed as a rule. My partner, who has an incredible amount of patience, stopped the hunt early-the first time we have ever done this. There is no excuse for this folks. If you are going to spend good money to fly to Africa and shoot the animals, at least do the animals the courtesy of learning to shoot so that they don't suffer.

Obviously this post was not intended towards the vast majority of folks here, and doesn't really need any responses or arguments, but hopefully a newbie who might be researching an upcoming hunt who stops by this site for some good advice, will see this post and think about his priorities.

HH, You said it well and with class..Those wannabe hunters are an embarrassment to all hunters who put in the time and improve their sport and their shooting...

Mike

It is a good reminder and sage advice for everyone, even those who think they are good shots and can't screw up. I listened to a returning hunter on my flight back from Africa a few weeks ago and he was proudly telling some other hunters on the plane of the number of bullets he had shot for the few animals that he had gotten, using as his excuse that "African animals are just plain tough to kill!" He also bragged about the animals that he had shot and wounded and hadn't been recovered. I was, to say the very least, embarrassed and angry. Might have been the gentleman referred to by HHmag.

Geez, I don't know how to even respond to that. I find it totally amazing is all I can say! Your partner deserves a medal for patience that's for sure, cuz there's sometimes a helluva lot of effort put into getting a client a shot, so to have him miss that many times is just unbelievably aggravating!

Was he scared of his rifle or just a lousy shot?

Mike

Might just be lazy, Mike.

You in the RSA right now, Rob, or back in Florida?

What I find strange is that, sadly, these people don't recognize themselves.

I've stated here before, I sat in JHB listening to two "hunters" bragging about killing giraffe. They were talking about how hard they were to kill. One bragged about how it took seven shots, the other topped him saying that was nothing he had needed nine to kill his. It makes me sick to here hunters talking like that in public.

On my sheep hunt last year the average shots the other hunters in camp took to kill rams, was five. One ram had to be suffocated because the shooter ran out of shells after breaking two of his ram's legs.

What I've personally watched are people taking shots they have no reasonable chance of pulling off. The second biggest mistake is that people haven't really sighted their rifles in, or are unfamiliar with new scopes.

I generally don't see people carrying guns they can't handle or are afraid of. They just don't bother taking the time to get proficient with the ones they have, and apparently have no respect for the animals they hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by hhmag:
We just had a client shoot 56 rounds of ammo in 6 days to take 5 animals. That was too much. Easy 100yd shot were completely stuffed as a rule. My partner, who has an incredible amount of patience, stopped the hunt early-the first time we have ever done this.

hhmag

How embarrasing for yourself, I sympathise with you

I am particularily interested and want to ask a few general questions as it might help understand the mentality of this type of hunter /

1) Was the client using his own rifle/s and ammunition, or loaning a rifle from you

2) Were there any warning signs of inaccuracy or flags when he was sighting in the rifle

3) Any brashness or warning signs noticed prior to sighting in or before the hunt

4) Was this the first time to Africa and had he hunted before

5) What was the responce from the client when he kept missing or firing bad shots off

6) What was the responce when the hunt was curtailed, do you expect any fall out

7) Which country was the client from and their age if known

Regards, Peter

I find this post to be in VERY poor taste . For a PH to come onto this site and put shit on a persons ability's is in my mind shithouse! Walter tries hard and by some of the video footage I've seen he's improving all the time. Perhaps if he gets some more encouragement from people he won't be so nervous and stuff up the easy 100 yard shots.

Marko, back in Floriduh 'til middle of next month. Tried calling a few times, btw. Cant figure out the country code-if I need to dial a zero between the country code and number or not. It's a bitch to get thru!

Peter, The client was fine off the hood of the truck while sighting in, but had early firing syndrome. That rifle would no sooner touch his shoulder than it was off! Karel tried everything-sticks, bipods, even shooting from the bakkie. Closest he could figure, it was the worst case of buck fever he had ever seen. The client did admit it was his first hunting trip and he had fired no more than 20 rounds in his life.As for the country of origin, I won't make generalizations. I have had many hunters from that country and except for having to beg them not to shoot all of my warthogs, I have never had a problem and find that most of the ones I have hunted with from there are generally one shot hunters. As for fallout, the gentleman in question was part of a group of three hunters, and I think they gave him much more shit than we did. He finished the hunt with a camera and truth be told, he was a bit more comfortable there.

Again, the original post is not meant to slam anyone, but just as a reminder, especially to hunters beginning the sport later in life, a rifle and a box of ammo does not a hunter make. Please try to at least become proficient enough to hit what you aim at off-hand, on sticks or off a sitting bipod. I know there isn't much to do about buck fever, and if your first actual hunt won't be until you go on safari, you will never know how you will react to having a living, breathing thing in the sight picture.

hhmag

Holy smoke,

I must be getting a soft bastard in my OLD AGE as I am now starting to actually feel sorry for that unfortunate chap from Spain

Proberly was an EXTREME case of BUCK FEVER and one thing obviously led to another and with the PEER pressure from his buddies and all the xperts around him he just cracked

I dont think we should be tooooooo hard on the chap as he may learn from the experience and one day turn out to be a crack shot and put us all in the shade, but you certainly highlight that need to be prepared to hunt

Regards, Peter

quote:

Again, the original post is not meant to slam anyone

Just kidding mate

Blah, blah, blah.

You took his money. Maybe he likes to hear his rifle go off. You should have taken him to the range and shot most of the ammo before he went hunting for the second animal.

After hunting in Zimbabwe last year, I stopped at a friends ranch on the Limpopo river in RSA, really more to visit than to hunt. They had some really big warthogs on the property and the owner of the ranch asked if I would ride 2x1 with a fellow who was looking for a "general" bag. It was the fellow's first hunt in Africa and I looked forward to watching him take some game. He had been delightful to be around in camp the night before at supper and around the fire.

I about crapped when he put a Remington 742 in the gun rack, complete with a 4x16 Tasco (maybe even a Tasco knock-off) with see-through sights. I asked how he got it in RSA and replied that it cost $100 U.S. to get it through customs. It seems that it was his deceased father's rifle. "You've killed some deer with it?", I asked. "Naw... I just bird hunt at home," was the reply.

We stopped a few hundred yards from the ranch house and he shot two rounds at a target from sticks and hit it both times (after I showed him how to release the magazine to load the thing. I think those two shots were pure gifts from God.

The rifle was a .30/06 and at least he was shooting Remington factory 180 grain bullets... can't remember, but premium bullets??) I had my fingers crossed.

About ten minutes later we spotted about 20 blue wildebeest from the vehicle. Five or six zebra's were mixed among them. "I see the zebras, he whispered, "..but what are those other things?"

It went down hill from there... I can't imagine spending $10K and not even knowing what you are hunting, not even knowing how to load your rifle (much less not knowing what's legal to import)... heck, he didn't even know that the scope had a magnification ring.

Maybe even worse, there was another "hunter" at the ranch who actually brought a broad brimmed, white straw hat with a bright blue band on it as his hunting hat. When it got cold, he starting borrowing jackets and sweaters because his wife forgot to pack them, he said.

What you Professional Hunter's have to put up with is more than I could take. More power to you.

I overlapped by two days with a hunter who was finishing up a 7 day plains game hunt, in the Luangwa Valley. I say overlapped, but it was that I was in early because of Airline scheduling problems, so I rode around with him the last two days of his hunt, takeing pictures, and filming him with his video camera.

His shooting was all over the Valley, and he missed every shot I saw him take. Some were only 50 yds out, but the shots were a foot low, every time. I thought he was pulling the shots on his 375 H&H "BIG BORE" as he called it! At a break for lunch I asked him if he thought he was pulling the rifle down when he fired. His reply was, "NO! the crosshair was on him when it fired!" He then turned the light on! He said, quite confidently,the rifle was OK because he had the rifle boresighted by the shop where he bought the used rifle when they mounted his new Luepold scope, before he left home,so it was on target, and something must have happened to it in transit! He had not bothered to shoot the rifle before leaving home!

After he left camp, I asked the PH what all he had taken on this trip. The PH smiled, and said he had taken a Zebra, and a wildebeast, both gut shot, and followed for miles to get in the killing shot! Believe it or not, the guy was happy, and still blamed the baggage handelers for his bad shooting. Strangely, he put two rounds in the bull at sight in at camp.

The nearest I can figure is the rifle was not that far out, but his fever exasorbated the scope alignment when he shot at animals! He didn't believe me when I told him that boresighting is only a starting point for the actually zeroing the scope! I said no more!

Here in the states I shoot rifle silhouette.As you know our matches are shot off hand. I can't
tell you how many times we have had ace deer hunters (who claim they get there deer every year , sometimes out to 500 or 600 yards)shoot 2 or 3 out of 20 targets. It happens in small bore also.
In the US it is the norm to shoot from shooting house useing a rest or out of tree stands useing a rest. Often
shooting deer at elec feeders. (in much of the south it is ok to do so, I don't know about the rest of the nation). Shooting off hand is fast becoming a lost art!!!

I can hold a 4 inch group at 200 meters with my 260 on a good day , 1/2 moa at the start of a pratice sessions.
When I started with my 375 and 416 I was lucky to hold 8 " at 100 yards. It took about 300 rounds to learn the big guns. I shoot 3000 to 5000 rounds of rimfire and 500 to 1500 rounds of high power a year off hand. It is a big investment in time and money to learn to shoot off hand, hard kicker take time to learn.

My wife who has shot rimfire from the bench,and off hand had never shot a centerfire rifle. She decide to go on the hunt two days before departure (long story). When we got there we had a dryfire session at the range with the PH's 06. She fired a 1/2" group at point of aim 100 yards distance. She was good to go. She had never taken a live animal. She read the chapters of "The Perfect Shot" dealing with Zebra and Gemsbuck and widebeest that night. She scored first on a big cow gemsbuck at 150 yards, I was there to see it, It dropped to the shot. While the PH and I were after Gemsbuck she was watching from the truck. a pair of Zebra came by. She radio us to ask if she could shoot the Zebra. We agreed only if she was real sure of the shot. 2 min later one shot at 200 yards her Zebra was down with out takeing a step. She had to finish it at point blank range and did so. ( it did sour her a little on taking game) Those two were shot from the truck useing a rest. She helped put down a sick wildebeest at 100 or so with a offhand shot, her shot was a little low so the Ph backed her up with my 375. I could not have been more proud.

Learn to shoot, Learn your guns, Learn your limitations.

J D

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
....Learn to shoot, Learn your guns, Learn your limitations....

Very wise advice!!

Money and ridicule are great motivators.
when I lived back in Illinois several of my fellow medical students and I would go to the range on Saturday afternoon to forget about school for a few hours. Clay pigeons off hand at 100 yards for $1.00 a shot.
Same thing with the 200 yard off-hand target at the high-power matches on Sunday morning. Your deficiencies are on display for the whole world to see.
I'm sure Judge G and his fellow A-4 pilots bet a quarter a bomb on the practice range. If you were having a hot day you could make $4.50 off your squadron mates.
lawndart

Before hunting Nambia this year I had shot a doe and two spikes and a cow elk. I was real lucky to harvest my first two deer,after competing for aa couple of years the two bucks and a cow elk at 300 or so yards seemed like a sure thing. I had no buck fever in Africa, But put me in a shoot off for a top five place in a state champianship (in front of 150 or so fellow shooters )I get a little shook. It might be good training for one of the big 5. At least If I get eaten or stomped there won't be to many people watching, but I would expect you guys to debate if I was shooting a CRF rifle and useing enough gun.I would expect you to determine if I could have saved my self with a proper double, or a Marlin lever action in 45-70or 450 mag.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
What I find strange is that, sadly, these people don't recognize themselves.

I've stated here before, I sat in JHB listening to two "hunters" bragging about killing giraffe.

I was about to walk over to some "hunters" in JNB too, and tell them to shut up. They were loud, and bragging, and making way to big a thing to all those around them about their hunt.

They did the hunting industry no good at all.

Your'e all right about the bragging and insensitive comments. Look, in many reserve areas of South Africa today the Professional Hunter is required to cover up any evidence of killed game either on the ground or when transporting game back to the camp. For us this year, this also included making sure that our firearms were in soft cases and then covered with blankets and coats. For all of the bunny-huggers, of course.

I see the book "The Perfect Shot" has been refered to again. Is it worth the $65.00 to someone like me who has a year before his 1st BG Hunt.
Thanks
Gene

quote:

Originally posted by invader66:
I see the book "The Perfect Shot" has been refered to again. Is it worth the $65.00 to someone like me who has a year before his 1st BG Hunt.
Thanks
Gene

The pocket edition is less expensive and has the shot placement information. I ended up buying both, and there is a lot of information other than about shot placement in the hard-back version not in the pocket guide. The pocket-size is small enough to take with you.

Maybe you can find someone to loan you theirs? If I was closer I would let you look at mine to see if you needed it.

I agree with this thread. However, I doubt that the type of person who would go "unprepared" to Africa will take advice from any of us. Sad to say, I think poor shooting and unpreparedness are here to stay.

Some countries eg Sweden require a hunting licence including a compulsory shooting test. Before hunting moose.