My son and I hunted with OOA in June of this year in Limpopo. We stayed in their lodge near Alldays. I would question the following statement from the ZCTF report....
"I was TOLD that they have a large warehouse there where they treat the trophies and pack them for export."
1. He was TOLD? Not a fact, second hand info. May or may not be true.
2. We were at the lodge for 8 days and never saw any " large warehouse." I wonder where it is at?
I don't have a dog in this fight, but if I was going to bad mouth a company I would have the facts, not second hand info.
From my own personal experience with OOA I have nothing but good to say about them. They assisted us with unplanned travel arrangements and paid for dipping and packing of our trophies, which was not in the contract.
As always, there is usually two sides to every story.

Hi Jim

I have little time for Johnny R but he is trying to collect facts, although he prefers the sensational to appeal to the overseas press rather than hard facts that will stand up in court.

Fully 15% of trophies export from Zim last year (possibly as high as 20%) were illegally hunted in terms of Zimbabwe law. At present though the government does't care that its illegal - they gave the go ahead and often ordered parks to issue illegal quotas. None of the quotas would stand up in a court of law, but the Attorney General isn't about to allow any of the appeals come to court. He is, after all a ZANU PF man (Sadly, I once counted Bharat as a friend). Once the fight here over land is settled, and mugabe's succession is decided then there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. In the unlikely event that the MDC win then all who have hunted illegally will be bought to book. In the more likely scenario of there being a shuffle in ZANU then those of the loosing faction AND their clients will be persecuted.

And NO. Out of Africa is not registered to conduct any hunts in Zimbabwe, nore have they officially done so, although they are the "booking agents" for several of the political eleite who are running hunting on government concessions or occupied farms.

I contacted Cabelas about this, spoke to Gregg Severinson, Manager of their dept that arranges hunts. Cabela's has no relationship with Out of Africa. Mr. Cabela hunted with Inyathi Hunters recently.

Please check your facts, the phone call was free.

Hi Dogcat

I don't think anybody has insinuated that Cabela's books for out of Africa. The allegation is that Cabela's books for Inyathi Hunters.

Inyathi Hunters is owned by Jacob Mudenda, a member of Mugabe's central committee and politburea member of ZANU PF. They ligitimately have matetsi Unit 3. However, the allegation made by the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force (and reproduced on this forum in a post by Kathi) is that they have been conducting hunts on occupied farms in the matetsi and gwaai areas in contravention of both Zimbabwe and US law. (not that Mudenda will be prosecuted in Zimbabwe under the current regime but US hunters might. ZCTF has supplied the names of five US hunters to US F&W (email copy to us)who alledgedly hunted with Inyathi hunters in an illegal hunt.

Ganyana,

It is one thing for a US hunter to knowingly hunt some area or game that is considered illegal by Zim or US laws, but how is it the average tourist-hunter to know that?

The tourist deplanes, and is whisked off to some area in the middle of nowhere, and he is suppose to know the area, who has legal rights to hunt it, and whether this violates some US law?

What OoA is doing may be illegal, but in a dictatorship such as Zim, talking about what is legal or illegal almost seems ludicrous. But I appreciate the good fight of the Task Force and hope it wins in the end, if there is such a thing as an end. Hopefully this forum can at least forewarn some hunters of potential problems and the advisibility of knowing your outfitter and PH.

Hi Will

It does seem a little unfair that your F&W people are going after the individual hunters rather than the "booking agents" who sent them there. As you say, what is legal here and what isn't is largely irrelevant. We are trying to get the word out and the parks board are very concerned with what US F&W and also the EU wildlife ministry is up to, but they are struggeling to find the balls to deal with the real big time crooks who are bringing the country into disrepute.

Sitting 8000 miles away it is very difficult for me -or any of the board, to actually know how best to proceed to warn visiting sportsmen. Stolen property remains stolen property in any civilised country. The fact that the government here condones it doesn't change the facts! How to get the word out?

The last guy who hunted with me (I picked up the hunt at the last minute when the scheduled PH was called away) had no idea weather he was hunting on state, communal or private land and arrived to hunt buff in the jesse equiped to hunt them in the open in tanzania (on the advice of the booking agent). I just wish people were better informed!!!!

Ganyana,

As I said, it is great that some are putting up the good fight!

(A couple guys showed up in camp a couple weeks ago at a well-known outfitter on the Zambezi that were told by the booking agent it would be freezing cold there in mid-September. They didn't even bring short sleeve shirts. Oh my! )

Bill



We all realise the difficulty that individual hunters face when booking a hunt to Africa BUT in this electroic and instant information world we have a lot of methods of seeking out the latest gossip or fact as it may be.



Although a bit tongue in cheek, the old saying that ignoranace of the law is no excuse once one is prosecuted, still actually applies in real life situations.



With all the publicity in recent months and even years on the scale of fraud and corruption in some Zimbabwe hunting in particular, we CANT be that naieve to say that we have not all be forwarned, and as the editor of an article on the OOA allegations which are now before a so called Zimbabwe court of law ( no pun intended ) it might be worth us ALL being reminded yet once again of what we might do before taking the plunge.



We know that despite all the warnings some hunters will still knowingly ignore advice warnings, buck the system, and plod on blindly to book with shady operators regardless.



( quote )



Editor�s note:



[ All hunters contemplating a safari in Zimbabwe should use � for their own protection � a variety of cross checks on the book-ing agent, the safari company and the professional hunters respectively the local outfitter before booking; in case the bookings have already been made and deposits have been paid, it is still worth while to consult with people like The Hunting Report, international hunting organizations, internet hunting forums and Zimbabwean organizations ].



( un quote )



Another saying that still applies in this real world we live in is [ We can legislate laws to try to prevent crime BUT we cant legislate to prevent foolish bahaviour ]



Regards, Peter

Then we have the fact that a lot of people have "prostituted" themselves in this deal. Individuals looking for a bargain or people being greased to further promote the outfitter are certainly in the loop. SCI certainly has to answer for some of this as do others. However, there are a lot of first time hunters out there who are totally in the dark about what has been going on. They dont even know what questions to ask let alone have any idea of shady workings within the industry. How would you guys protect them? Not everyone knows about AR or similar boards. For that matter not everyone has a computer or is technically literate.

When I pay my $2.00 at Fenway Park for a program, I have a pretty sound basis for thinking that I know who's playing for whom in the baseball game to come.

Zim ain't even in the same ballpark. It ain't even the same sport. Too much time must be spent to divine too little and too unreliable a base of knowledge. It's not a matter of late breaking, last minute trades. It's more a matter of changing the basic rules of the game while you're in the third inning.

Not for me.

How do you know when a lawyer is telling lies?
His lips are moving!

My post was not really applicable to this topic, as I had only skimmed over some of the content.



Deleted...



Sorry

I collect and drop off clients regularly at Pietersburg Airport and almost every trip I bump into hunters who have hunted with OOA and mostly they're from the US and mostly go home dissatisfied with their experience. A few weeks ago, I met 2 hunters who found themselves sharing a camp with 18, yes 18 other hunters...... incidentally, one of them had suffered a DVT during his flight over and the same company had just dropped him at the airport and allowed him to fly home. ( I just hope he made it!)

When I go to Alldays, there's a bloody great sign at the filling station that announces "Welcome to OOA country"

The same company is being investigated in at least 2 countries, and yet.......Where do most of these hunters tell me they buy their hunts.......SCI conventions. ........ perhaps it's time SCI cut the crap and actually did something about it.

Jim, SCI international as well as many local chapters have accepted a large number of hunts from Out of Africa. This whole situation with OOA's questionable ethics came to light publicly at the convention two years ago. I not being an insider even knew about it. Since then there have been hunts by high ranking SCI members that were purchased outright as well as many donated hunts. The problem is no one wanted to look at the situation because OOA donated so many hunts and was a source of such a large amount of revenue for SCI both on the local and national level. Hell, OOA is still advertising in the safari times. Unfortunately, fish and wildlife are going after indvidual hunters and as yet largely ignoring the source of the problem, namely OOA. I do not believe that anyone who is that experienced in hunting the world can say they didnt have any idea something was up. I do believe that there are many individuals who are going to get caught up in this thing who really didnt know better. My previous statement was a generalized barb aimed at some of the higher ups who hunted with OOA even after the information became public. I support SCI in 99% of what they do. My problem with this is that too many people turned a blind eye because of the money involved. I have had a long talk with some people on the ethics of the situation. Perhaps you as a board member can get the figures on just how much money is involved. Also, talk to the ethics folks and see what their take on this is.

If you want to talk to me offline about this I will be glad to when I get back. I leave for RSA in 4 hours!
Mike

"...The problem is no one wanted to look at the situation because OOA donated so many hunts and was a source of such a large amount of revenue for SCI both on the local and national level..."

A very sad situation I am afraid, and it does not speak very highly of the ethics of our hunting orgenization!

Sounds to me just like all those who have been given PH Of The Year Awards, then turned around and ran off with millions of dollars belonging to hunters, many of whom were SCI members.