I guess I'm beating a dead horse but it seems to me that most of you guys can't seem to separate your favorite from most versatile. A .505 Gibbs versatile?!

I like the 404 jeffery

bullets in 347,350,400,and 450's damn classic to boot. See the best of both worlds!

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:
I guess I'm beating a dead horse but it seems to me that most of you guys can't seem to separate your favorite from most versatile. A .505 Gibbs versatile?!

In all fairness it must be remembered that the original post was for OVER FORTY CALIBER and that lets out at least one extremely versatile cartridge!

MOST VERSATILE AFRICAN CARTRIDGE ABOVE .40 CALIBER?

The answer to that question depends on what type rifle it will be chambered in! The most versatile cartridge would be different than the most versatile AFRICAN RIFLE ABOVE .40 CAL

If you are asking about the cartridge only, then it would most likely be a 416 Rem Mag, but that would only be true if you are asking about bolt actions only!

In that case, the rifle would be one with CRF action, good Iron sights, and a veriable scope with an illumination feature, and mounted in return to zero, QD rings and bases. The addtion of a well bedded synthetic stock, and your on a solid rock foundation.

IMO, this rifle would be the most versatile rifle above .40 cal, for a "do it all" rifle , for Africa. It has range, it has power, it has flat enough trejectory for long shots, it has comparatively cheap, and available factory ammo, and the action is as fool proof as one can be made, along with a stock that will not be affected by weather.

The above .40 cal takes away the most versatile cartridge for the world, not just Africa! A 375 H&H set up the same as above is more versatile that anything I can think of, but that wasn't the question!

If you are asking about a cartridge used in a double rifle, then it would one of four cartridges, a 450/400NE 3",a 450/400NE 3.25" , a 450NE , and 500/416NE. Also set up with the same scope and attachments as the bolt rifle!

10,4X62

.400 Brown Whelen

?

Wendell:
It's tougher to eat your cake and have it, too.



Dutch

With a 458 Lott you can have a nice DGR stopper rifle, but with 400 grain Woodleigh PP bullets (or other pointed bullets), it is well within the cartridge's capabilities to take elk at 300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
With a 458 Lott you can have a nice DGR stopper rifle, but with 400 grain Woodleigh PP bullets (or other pointed bullets), it is well within the cartridge's capabilities to take elk at 300 yards.

Exactly. AND you can also use .458 WM ammo if that's all you can find. Try doing that with ANY of the .416's!

Swampshooter-
I was just on the point of asking about that very thing.

A number of guys with 458 Lotts have mentioned that, in the event their ammo is lost, they can always get and shoot 458 Winnies.

I'm thinking that if that's the case, for me at least, it would be better to have a 458 wm from the start amd become very familiar with it.

Thoughts?

RG

quote:

Originally posted by RG Rhodes:
Swampshooter-
I was just on the point of asking about that very thing.

A number of guys with 458 Lotts have mentioned that, in the event their ammo is lost, they can always get and shoot 458 Winnies.

I'm thinking that if that's the case, for me at least, it would be better to have a 458 wm from the start amd become very familiar with it.

Thoughts?

RG

But then you can't shoot Lotts.

quote:

Originally posted by RG Rhodes:
Swampshooter-
I was just on the point of asking about that very thing.

A number of guys with 458 Lotts have mentioned that, in the event their ammo is lost, they can always get and shoot 458 Winnies.

I'm thinking that if that's the case, for me at least, it would be better to have a 458 wm from the start amd become very familiar with it.

Thoughts?

RG

An answer from the perspective of an ardent 458wm fan:

If you have a 458wm then you have all of the rifle you will ever need and it is extremely versatile:

If you find a good second hand 458wm, then you are also set.

If you are going to purchase a new rifle or have one built, then the Lott gives even greater performance and is even more versatile. The cost difference is nil, or perhaps in the favor of the Lott for a new rifle to boot.

Hope this helps,

JPK

The Lott is a very interesting and appealing round. I think I'll be going with the 458 wm now, while saving up for a CZ or something in Lott later.

Question: What level of accuracy would one expect from an accurate Lott, when firing Winnies?

RG

I gotta say that if you get the 458wm now, or already have one, you have or will have all of the rifle you will ever need.

So, if you get the 458wm or have it, no need to save up for a Lott.

No accuracy issues with a Lott firing wm ammo. The rifle should shoot about as well as with Lott ammo. Either round is capable of good accuracy, neither round is a bench rest paper puncher, but that is because of recoil. Also, free bore in your typical 458wm is generous.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I gotta say that if you get the 458wm now, or already have one, you have or will have all of the rifle you will ever need. So, if you get the 458wm or have it, no need to save up for a Lott. No accuracy issues with a Lott firing wm ammo. The rifle should shoot about as well as with Lott ammo. Either round is capable of good accuracy, neither round is a bench rest paper puncher, but that is because of recoil. Also, free bore in your typical 458wm is generous.

JPK

Ditto's with JPK's comments, EXCEPT if you were ever going to hunt big ele bulls (Botswana size) not Zambezi Valley bulls, then I would take the Lott hands down for penetration on frontal brain shots.

Dirk,

I've read your comment and similar comments before. I'm a bullet digger and have dug for many of the bullets used to kill the elephants I have killed and to dig for bullets I have fired into those dead elephants for tests as well.

All of the elephants that I have shot have been in Zim, from Chewore to Chete to Omay to the Save. (Hey that rymes!) The largest was a big old bull with a huge head in Omay. All bullets passed through the skull fron to back or side to side.

I usded Woodleighs 500 grainers at 2145fps for that elephant and the 450gr North Forks I often use, at ~2200fps, penetrate even better.

Ain't that enough? Even for Botswana bulls?

JPK

My vote goes to the 416 Rigby. Can be used on ele, buff and plains game. No problemo

.416 Hoffman!

The Rigby gets my vote. Ammo is getting very easy to obtain for the 416 Rigby and after all, tradition is a big part of hunting Africa. The Rigby certainly ranks as one of the grand old classics that still get the job done at least as well as any other. If someone has a problem with a little longer action, then I question if they should be hunting dangerous game in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by doccash:
My vote is for the .416 Rigby. Shoots flat enough for use in a pinch and has ample power when the bullet arrives. At close range its effects are legendary ( being a classic ctg. means a lot to me ).

I'm more comfortable shooting the 458 WinMag than the 416 RemMag. But, as my Zimbabwean friend, Duke Cloete, says about the 416, "This baby's got some steam!".
Dave

400 Whelen.

Used it on a one-gun hunt in Tanzania in 2006.

Garrett

.458 Lott and Barnes bullets...nuff said

Bull1

quote:

Originally posted by bull1:
.458 Lott and Barnes bullets...nuff said

Bull1

+1

The answer is the .416 Rigby! Tradition, versatility and power in the same package.

Case closed