Ladies & Gentlemen,
For the first time i am trying to post a photo at AR!

As you know i am very fond of the various nitroloaded 9,3mm calibres.




From left to right:
9,3x57, 9,3x62, 9,3x63, 9,3x64 Brenneke, 9,3x65R Brenneke -the rimmed version of the 9,3x64, 9,3x66, The Powerhouse 9,3x70 and the 9,3x74R.

My favorite is the 9,3x63 (based on a necked down 10,75x68 case. Perhaps 10 year older than the .373H&H but deliver the same performance as the .375H&H or the 9,3x64.

Husky

Very nice. That puts my paltry collection (9.3x62 and 9.3x74R) to shame!

Please tell us about the 9.3 x 70. Do you have a cartridge drawing and reloading data for it?

husky

Fantastic 9,3 collection

Is 9,3X70 loaded by Expert or?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Hey nice collection, but what happened to the 9.3x72R

GRP,
There are a bunch of old 9,3mm calibers orginally loaded with blackpowder. the 9,3x72R is one of them!

The ones one the photo are all original nitro loaded cartridges.

Husky

quote:

Is 9,3X70 loaded by Expert or?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

A favourite of your mate Hermann.

9.3x70

Try this link on Hatari Times

http://www.hataritimes.com/e/guns.html

I have always suspected the 9.3x64 was the most overlooked round in todays world, for the all around title, held by the great 375 H&H...

The 9.3x63 is an interresting caliber that sure peaks my interrest, The 10.75x68 is such a neat case and now available...I am building myself a peep sighted featherweitht carbine in 10.75x68, to pack around for Buffalo, Lion, and what not...It should tip the scales at 8.5 lbs.

NitroX,

Was Hermann Gorring anyones mate? Jaegermeister of the Third Reich.

Mate is another Strine word that doesn't translate well to those whose first language isn't English.

Also most folks miss that Aussies have to insult you first to be friendly. Kind of endearing, but a bit of a pain in the ass to those not aware ot the custom.

D99

Johan once made a reference to me as a mate of Hermann Goering or something similar. Just a subtle (or not ) humorous repartee.

Don't worry about it.

(Like an elephant I have a long and twisted memory. Sorry. )

The 9.3x70mm was based on the .404 case I believe. A forerunner to Saeed's own .375/404 and all the Dakotas. Shows there is nothing new under the sun in terms of wildcats today, until someone perfects the caseless cartridge.

A nice line up of 9.3's above and a great photo.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Don't worry about it.

D99-
It's just an old joke, Aussies and Kiwis likes to be "up in your face", this shall not be taken as insult or to humiliate

John,"long and twisted memory" is that before or after a few hogsheads You deserve a bit of muck, living in Australia's gastronomical hot spot

DWM made 9,3X70, 7,65X70, 8X73 and one more which I can't remember right now They are based on the 10,75X73 case.....

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Hi,

Yes JOHAN, the 9,3x70 is an "Expert" cartridge. Don't know who the Expert is... Got the cartridge from Johannsen Jr.

Atkinson,
I bought an original Miller & Val. Greiss Mauser 98 rifle in caliber 9,3x63 some years ago. Hopefully there will be an article in MAN MAGNUM about the rifle soon.

As far I know, the history behind the 9,3x63 is as follows:

There is not much information found in books and brochures about the 9,3x63. The caliber is not even mentioned in the “standard book†Frank C Barnes CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD. I found some fragments in old German books and brochures as well from Master Gunsmith and Publisher & Chief Editor of “HATARI TIMES†Mr Harald Wolf, Belgium about the 9,3x63.
It was probably a very early RWS design featured by a very well known German big game hunter of those days named Alexander Floorstedt. RWS also had a 9 x 63 (smaller case diameter - known as the Floorstedt-Cartridge) and the 9,3 x 63 as well as a 10,75 x 63 (very short lived forerunner of the later 10,75 x 68). The latter 2 are having the same basic case dimensions. The 63 mm cases are very early designs (approx. 1902 to 1905). Unfortunately in those days the manufacturers as well as the hunters did not care too much about ballistic data. Brochures were usually only reading energy figures without giving any information on velocity and bullet weight. The only known rifles chambered for the 9,3x63 are by smaller custom gun makers such as Miller & Val. Greiss or Suhl makers. Original 9,3 x 63 ammo is almost impossible to find these days. The 9,3x63 career was short, Introduced sometimes between 1902 -05, it was listed in the 1928 but not in the 1934 RWS catalog.

Miller & Val. Greiss was one of the few companies that made rifles in 9,3x63 and they also had their own special "banded" bullets.

Miller & Val. Greiss produced some very powerful propriety cartridges for African hunting. The most well known is probably the 9,5x73, which is a necked down version of the 10,75x73 (.404 Jeffery).

Miller & Greiss also made a 8mm version on the 10,75x73 case called 8x73 Miller & Greiss. The 10,5x73 Miller & Greiss Magnum is a very scarce cartridge that looks identical to the .416 Rigby.

Miller & Greiss most powerful cartridge was the .575 Miller & Greiss Magnum, a shortened and necked down .50 BMG case that has a rebated rim. There is very little known about the caliber. Maybe it was only made for show. Commercial manufacture is not known and no specimens are confirmed.


My Miller & Val. Greiss 9,3x63.


Forming the 9,3x63 cases from 10,75x68

Cheers
Husky

Nitro,

I know you were joking. I just wanted to make sure the other folks did. Spend some time on the Big Game posting arena and you will find that there are few with a sense of humor. I quit going in there.

I didn't know about the previous joke, though. FUNNY!

Besides those that haven't travelled don't know about that Aussie insult introduction.

I may live in Spain, but I am an American and I know not everyone in America can appreciate that sense of humor.

What is gained on the 9.3x63? I don't quite understand is it younger or older than the 9.3x64?

D99,
The 9,3x63 is about 10 years younger than the .375 H&H and the 9,3x64 Brenneke.

I have loaded the 9,3x63 with a 286gr Norma Oryx bullet to 2500 fps with no signs of having overloaded it.

The case capacity is about 10 - 12% larger than the 9,3x62.


In short one could say that the .375 Holland & Holland dublicated the 9,3x63 performance TEN years later...

What the .375 H&H did that the 9,3x63 didn't was that the .375 H&H was chambered by the major British rifle companies and that it used (for it's time) very good Kynoch bullets.


The 9,3x63 faded away with the German Kaisers Colonies in Africa.

(Fat Hermann's brother Karl Göring was heavily invoölved in the colonies in German West Africa and Tanganyka.

I will bring with me my Miller & Greiss to Africa next time. perhaps no one has hunted with this caliber in Africa in 70 years...

Husky

D99,
The first sentence should be:

"The 9,3x63 is about 10 years OLDER than the .375 H&H and the 9,3x64 Brenneke!"

Husky

Does anyone know if there has ever been an "official" 9.3x68 (ie built on the 8x68S not the 10.75x68) ?

Also while off-topic on 9.3mm, any other "official" 8x68S derivative cartridges made into big bores, eg 9.5 mm, 10.5 mm, 10.75 mm, 11 mm etc?


D99 - no problem. Johan and I exchanged PMs on the post and they were friendly as usual.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Does anyone know if there has ever been an "official" 9.3x68 (ie built on the 8x68S not the 10.75x68) ?

Also while off-topic on 9.3mm, any other "official" 8x68S derivative cartridges made into big bores, eg 9.5 mm, 10.5 mm, 10.75 mm, 11 mm etc

About the 9,3x68 - don't konw -but as all components are there it woould surprise me alot if no small German riflemaker turned out such a caliber in the 1930's or so...

There are a 9,3 "Venter". Ken Stewart, South Africa developed this caliber for his friend Martin Venter. It's a necked up .338 Win Mag. Same performance as the 9,3x64 Brenneke but with more aviable cases. A good idea i think!

/Husky

Husky
Your Miller & Greiss is a very nice looking rifle, some close up's would be nice
The more 9,3's the better it is
It's quite easy to "make" Brenneke brass from 338 or 300 win cases.

NitroX- A 9,3X68 designed in your area would go under the name 9,3 old Fritz

Cheers
/ JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
Husky
Your Miller & Greiss is a very nice looking rifle, some close up's would be nice
The more 9,3's the better it is
It's quite easy to "make" Brenneke brass from 338 or 300 win cases.

NitroX- A 9,3X68 designed in your area would go under the name 9,3 old Fritz

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Thanks JOHAN. Its a really odd rifle -fits me with or without Fez very well

I think JOHAN and NitroX that with your sense of humour a 9,3x68 would be called 9,3 "Fat Herrman"

Leaving for London. Back on Sunday...

Husky