I realy dont know much about mauser or mauser typoe actions. I do use a ruger 77 ultra light for deer which i beleive has a mauser type action which i have never had problems with. I also have a remington model 700 which i have never had problems with. My question is this i was over at the Remington website looking at the discription of there Model 700 Safari and was wondering what they ment by there statement. Which is --- All Safari rifles start with the exclusive remington model 700 actions, Unlike Mauser type bolt actions there is no ejector cut in the bolt face to Weaken the integrity og its design. Is there any merit to this and what are they tring to say.

Remington 700 for safari use.

It is only recomended by a select few who for the most part do not hunt dangerous game.

You don't find many M-700's in use in Africa.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

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quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
I realy dont know much about mauser or mauser typoe actions. I do use a ruger 77 ultra light for deer which i beleive has a mauser type action which i have never had problems with. I also have a remington model 700 which i have never had problems with. My question is this i was over at the Remington website looking at the discription of there Model 700 Safari and was wondering what they ment by there statement. Which is --- All Safari rifles start with the exclusive remington model 700 actions, Unlike Mauser type bolt actions there is no ejector cut in the bolt face to Weaken the integrity og its design. Is there any merit to this and what are they tring to say.

Use whatever action you like, you won't find any difference in their performance in the field.

As long as you are familiar with your rifle, and know how to use it.

I have used rifles built on the Remington 700 action on several safaris, and have never, ever regreted it.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Surestrike:

You may be surprised to find likely more remington 700's in the hands of locals in Africa than you think. There would have been way, way more if Remington did not comply to the arms embargo enforced on the RSA in 1977. The embargo was lifted in 1995 and at that time there was only a handfull of operations bringing 700's into the country.

Alf,

I wasn't refering to RSA I was refering to "REAL" Africa.

I have seen a fair share of M-700's on game farms in RSA.

I have also seen the occasional push feed M-70 in ZIM and Tanzania. I like the traditional mauser CRF action as it fits my tatses and needs quite well. I haven't found many PH's making a living hunting DG in the true wilds of Africa whom would say they would prefer a PF M-700 or M-70.

I don't begrudge a guy for using one, that is a personal choice. Or possibly a financial choice

I like my rifles and will continue to use them as they work just great for me.

PS

I'm just busting your chops about the RSA I've got some very close friends whom live in South Africa and I truely love to visit them and their country. We always give each other shit. They to me about being a softy city boy yankee and me to them about not living in "REAL" Africa.

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quote:

All Safari rifles start with the exclusive remington model 700 actions, Unlike Mauser type bolt actions there is no ejector cut in the bolt face to Weaken the integrity og its design. Is there any merit to this and what are they tring to say

There is no merit here at all...it's pure marketing bull shit.

That said I agree with Saeed and if I had a remington 700 in an appropriate caliber and used it well.....shot it well...and had confidence in it I'd take it to Africa. Heck....I took a Model 92 winchester once!!!

Personally for me the rifles that are safari rifles are Mausers, M-70 winchesters, or Montana Rifles. This is a purely personal thing and is not to be understood as "necessary" or even "better".

That said it's also for sure that Remington does not writeing the book about safari rifles.....not even close.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Surestrike:

MY AFRICA is the real AFRICA, my soil, grass, trees and weather is all AFRICA, my lion, buffalo and elephant as as real and wild as any other, do not think because we have had almost 400 years of civilization , or our laws required us to seperate disease carrying bovines from cattle our wild animals are civilized as well.

And do not be mistaken the importers in the RSA were the keepers of the gate for Southern Africa with regards to arms import from across the waters.

ALF,

Please remove your panties from the crack of your butt!

I was pulling your leg with the "REAL" Africa comment and thought that I'd made that clear. No disrespect ment or implied I was only joking and do appologize if you took it wrong.

Greg

Alf, aren't you in Canada, since the 'REAL African's' kicked you out, because you aren't the right color?

Nothing personal, just a comment on the real Africa hasn't changed, and, it sucks, if you are white?

gs

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quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
I realy dont know much about mauser or mauser typoe actions. I do use a ruger 77 ultra light for deer which i beleive has a mauser type action which i have never had problems with. I also have a remington model 700 which i have never had problems with. My question is this i was over at the Remington website looking at the discription of there Model 700 Safari and was wondering what they ment by there statement. Which is --- All Safari rifles start with the exclusive remington model 700 actions, Unlike Mauser type bolt actions there is no ejector cut in the bolt face to Weaken the integrity og its design. Is there any merit to this and what are they tring to say.

Use whatever action you like, you won't find any difference in their performance in the field.

As long as you are familiar with your rifle, and know how to use it.

I have used rifles built on the Remington 700 action on several safaris, and have never, ever regreted it.

What were you hunting and what calibers were your rifles in?

Tanoose,

I have only hunted Africa once, therefore a novice, and that was Plains Game so PF versus CRF didn't matter as much in this instance. I used a Tikka with PF and it performed flawlessly, including quick follow-up shots. In all the years I have hunted whitetail with my Ruger CRF I (and heavy on the "I") have jammed it twice...don't let them tell you it can't be done.

However after saying all of that, WHEN I get to hunt DG I will be looking for a CRF just because of the positive feedback from all the posts over the years. If you read enough of the former posts you will also find those who contend you can't hunt dangerous game without a double-rifle.

Whichever you have now, I am quite sure you will need another new rifle before going on your hunt.

By all means go with a Mauser-type action. The various non-Mauser action were developed as production expedients for cost-cutting purposes, and nothing else.

That's the reason they get selected to this day......

AD

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
By all means go with a Mauser-type action. The various non-Mauser action were developed as production expedients for cost-cutting purposes, and nothing else.

That's the reason they get selected to this day......

AD

Right on, Allen! The only improvement over the Mauser type, made by the Remington PUSH FEED 700 action,and other PF actions, is maker's bottom line! It certainly was not an improvement over a CRF action, of any kind, and far less compitant than a true Mauser 98 type.

The 98 type not only is CRF, but handles the hot gasses far more efficiently, than any of the PF actions, in case of a case failier, or punctured primer.

Still as others have said, use what ever you want, it is your money, and your butt on the line, after all! I will not use a PUSH FEED actioned rifle for anything larger, or more dangerous than a North American black bear, and I'd not use one on the black bear if I have a choice, and I do! IMO, they make fine deer rifles, no matter the chambering, but they are not DANGEROUS GAME RIFLES, IMO. I say if you are going to buy a new rifle for Africa, then the CRF rifles cost no more, why not buy a real rifle, and get a CRF.

Geez, cut the rhetoric guys!
It don't matter what you've got, if you can't shoot it, it won't save your butt
Don't worry about who's action design is better, just go huntin. Any body have a documented instance of whe last time a M700 failed to extract or some nimrod doulbe-fed when the chips were down? I'd like to hear about it!

Back in college, I had an economics professor who often spoke about an odd phenomenon of human nature which he call "The Great Motherhood Theory"; the basic premise of the the GMT being that in the minds of some people, all things, are totally, absolutely, 100% equal in terms of performance and quality, no matter what the truth actually happens to be. All that's necessary for the GMT to bear fruit is ignorance and wishful thinking, with the actual truth being considered largely irrelevant -- especially if the truth manages to uncomfortably exceed someone's budget, experience, or technical understanding. As it applies to rifles, the GMT would certainly embrace the idea that a Savage 110 is "just as good" and reliable in every way as a David Miller Company rifle built on a refined Mauser action, but it's "just cheaper" -- that's the only real difference. Like the old, failed Communist Manifesto, everything's completely equal, all you have to do is wish it to be so, and it's so!

Ten years ago, I sat in a hunting camp in Tanzania and listen to PH Marshall Smalling relate an absolutely chilling story to us about a near-death Cape buffalo experience he lived through that was caused, in part, by a smokestack jam he experienced with a Remington 700 in 416 Rem. Mag., and he ended that particular season so soured on Model 700s that he wouldn't use one for any sort of hunting, anywhere, ever again. I also own a Model 700 ADL 30-06 that I bought at age fifteen, and it, too, will smokestack about 30% of the time, even though I've replace the magazine box, follower, etc. "Rhetoric" you say? Hardly.....

Pick up a copy of engineer Stuart Otteson's book, "The Bolt Action", and read the chapter on the Remington 700. In that chapter, Otteson details the vulnerability of the M700 to dust and grit contamination, etc. Africa is a very dusty place, and because of that, in part, PHs generally recommend CRF actions to clients, and best-quality custom riflemakers almost always build bolt-guns for experienced, discerning clients on Mauser 98-pattern actions or Model 70s. Not everything is created as equal, no matter how badly you'd like it to be so.

on the GMT........

AD

Allen,
I stand corrected. What I should have said was show me an instance where a properly tuned PF action caused a problem. A mauser type can also be FUBARed and while I agree the mauser has inherant design superiorty, the likelihood of the action of either design causing a problem is infinitesimally smaller than a misplaced shot causing a problem. I have a custom M700 that I have hunted with (not in Africa) for 30 years that has never failed to function. I traded a M70 for it when I was biulding a nonDGR because the M700 is inherently more accurate (excuse me, I just had to throw more napalm). That's only one gun so does not represent anything but my own experience. BTW my African rifle is a pre64 M70.