Gentlemen,
I need info on this caliber. Can anyone help me out on this one??? I'm especially interested in loading data and history of this bullet!
Many thanks
Kamaatu

They quit making that caliber because they ran out of food for oil money, I have this from Peppe La Pew personally..

Att Wink,
thanks for your response. If you are able to find out more, please do so. Especially when it was introduced. By what I'm told, the gun must be over 25 Years old. Who knows, might be a bullshit story from the guy who wants to sell it to me. And yes, the brass is a big problem. I don't have a clue where to get the brass for that caliber.
Thanks Kamaatu

Kamaatu,

I got tired of saying what I thought I knew and called David Chapuis. He is the son of Rene Chapuis who developed the gun and cartridge with A-Square. He thinks the rifle and caliber were introduced in 1988/1989 but he wasn't yet working wih the company and isn't formal about the dates. He thinks they produced it for around 3 or 4 years. When he came into the business (1994) they had already stopped production. He says the main reason for stopping production was the price and availability of ammunition. He has no idea if it is still possible to obtain brass or loaded cartridges from A-Square. Chapuis still makes express rifles chambered for the .416 Rigby. I think you will need to contact A-Square directly to find out about new brass.

As a Chapuis owner your post interested me, as I had thought about buying a .416 Chapuis in the past. While considering this point I remembered that I have a couple of old Chapuis catalogues that I obtained in 1995 and these included a typed brief from Chapuis about the company.

The last lines of the typed brief state:

Quote:

---

...in the beginning of the 1990's, we used to collaborate with an American ammunition manufacturer A-Square, with whom we designed the .416R Chapuis

---

So the cartridge has only been around since the early 1990's.

Hope this helps.

If I remember correctly the A-Square 416R is not the same case as the 500/416. I think the 416R is longer and bigger around, it might be the same case as the 450 Assegai, also an A Square invention. I have the case demensions somewhere, I will post them when I find them.

I haven't handled any 416 Chapuis cases or cartridges but I do remember the photos in the Chapuis catalogue. It is not a 416 Rigby with a rim on it. Their catalogue at the time called it a "ballistic equivalent" of the 416 Rigby, ie. low pressure for probably 2300 fps. From memory, it is longer and thinner than a 416 Rigby. Whatever the dimensions of the cartridge, for a starting point for reloading you could probably just check the case volume and compare with other 416's and work off of those.

Kamaatu,

I don't think the 416 Chapuis existed 25 years ago, at least not with that name on it. I wish I could find that old Chapuis catalogue I had but if my memory is correct the cartridge and the gun were introduced within the last ten years. It is an attractive proposition, 416 Rigby ballistics, low pressure, rimmed for reliable extraction from a double-rifle, etc. If you can obtain cartridge cases then it would look real interesting.

The 416 Chapius was a cartridge designed by A-Square for Chapius and is refered to the 416 rimmed in their reloading manual. From the manual" The cartridge was originally intended to be quasi-proprietery. However, numerous double rifle makers wanted to chamber for the cartridge but they wanted a nuetral name on the cartridge." I'm sure you will find this cartridge to be the 500/416. When at SCI in 1996 I looked at the Chapius rifles and the owner mentioned that he was screwed over by A-Square and that he couldn't provide ammunition for his 416 Chapius chambered rifles.
Take good care,
Dave

Gentlemen,
first of all I would like to thank everybody who has replied on my post.
This is getting more and more interesting. The reason for me posting is that I have an option on a .416 Chapius double. Apparently< !--color--> the gun used to belong to a PH, a certain Mr. H Dawson. (Never heard of him!) He brought it from Zambia to Zimbabwe (Rhodesia at that time), hat legal problems there and left Zim. via Namibia (SWA at that time) to go and make a living somewhere else. He left all his guns in Namibia with a person he met there and vanished. This was about 25 years ago. Since he never came back and never got into contact with that person again, these guns are still where they are now and waiting to get legalised imo. get put on somebody�s licence. So, here I am wondering whether I should buy it or not.

Still wondering
Regards Kamaatu

The A-Square web site www.a-squarecompany.com shows both loaded Triad ammunition and brass in 416 Rimmed for sale. You would have to call them at (1) 812 283 0375 to get the prices.

The only thing I could find on the internet was at this site

Website [a French software for managing one's cartridge collection]



Scroll down about half way (notice the spelling Chapuis not Chapius) and you will see the following:



.416 Chapuis



SAA 7240

(10,1 x 83,5 R)

Chapuis Armes does not chamber any of there rifles, doubles, for the 416 Chapuis. They do load them in 375 H&H, 416 Rigby and 470 NE. I never heard of that caliber.

There is the link to there website.

http://www.chapuis-armes.com

Enigma

Chapuis, the French gunmaker, made double express rifles in .416 Chapuis for a couple of years and for reasons unknown to me, stopped. They probably didn't get enough sales to continue. The cartridge was designed to be a rimmed version of the .416 Rigby for double rifles. I think A-Square was the ammunition supplier. If there is a real need to know, I can check with Chapuis here in France and try to find out what happened to the cartridge and the manufacture of the express rifles in that caliber. Does anybody want me to find out more?

That is a new one on me unless it is a 416 Rigby or 416/500 in a Chapius double rifle....

kamaatu

I was a dealer for A-Square in the 90's. I have one of their original flyers on the cartridge. According to
the flyer it was released in 1993. I can e-mail it to someone to post here or you personaly if you want.

James

@all,
you guys are great!!!
I confronted the guy this afternoon and told him that the story he told me was utter bullshit seeing that the cartridge only came out in the 90�s. He tried to find excuses but I told him to keep the gun and get it legal himself. Who knows where it came from!
Thanks again and a good weekend to you all!!
Regs K.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

A two page brochure regarding the Chapuis .416R cartridge.

Go to this Picture Album and Left Click on each of the two pictures. Then Left Click "View Original Image" and you should get a picture large enough to read.

Regards,

Terry

Kamaatu

I sent this thread to Chapuis Armes.

This company is the first double rifles producer in the world, nonetheless, any time you can call Ren� or his two sons, it�s as easy as pie, they are not big-headed and love to have feed-backs from their arms� users.
Should You give them the serial number of the rifle, they can trace it up to the dealer or the owner.
If it can help.
Good luck

T�l : +33 4.77.50.06.96 / Fax : +33 4.77.50.10.70
E-mail : info@chapuis-armes.com

I sent a question to Chapuis Armes via e-mail ... whether or not I could use Nosler Partitions in my 9.3x74R. They had their US agent call me the next day. Extraordinary service.

Somewhere I got the chamber drawings for the 500/416 ... the notes were in French. Any chance Chapuis was the actual source?

mike

mstarling,

I am curious as to Chapuis' answer on using the Nosler Partitions in your 9.3x74R. I have a UGExpress in 9.3x74R that had to go back to the factory twice for re-regulation because I used Barnes X bullets in it and they broke the join between barrels and rib. I had no idea that homogenous bullets could be so hard on doubles (For all you double owners - don't shoot homogenous projects in any double!) but fortunately Chapuis fixed the gun both times although, understandably, they were not very happy about it the second time. Since then I have been careful about the projectiles I feed through both of my doubles and have been sticking to RWS and Woodleighs. However, I have a packet of the Noslers here and have been wondering about trying them. I think that they should be OK but, with my past experiences, I have been reluctant to deviate from what I know works.

The Chapuis rep indicated that partitions were fine.

I have a good load for Woodleighs, but haven't fiddled much with the Partitions yet in this rifle.

Given good performance of the Woodleigh, I may use the partitions in the 9.3x62 CZ ... they worked beautifully in Africa this last May! I'll know about the Woodleigh performance on white tails sometime Thanksgiving week ;>

I would dearly hate to screw up the Chapuis ... wonderful little rifle (and it has a set of 3" 20 gauge barrels and may be the best performing shotgun I've ever owned.)

Thanks Mike,

I would also be interested in knowing what loading data works best in your rifle. I have had mixed results with load development with the 9.3x74R in the Chapuis but think that I have identified the problem. I have developed some loads that would shoot really well at times but at other times would be very ordinary (even bad). This was particularly so with the Woodleigh 286gn RN and Speer 270gn projectiles. I believe the problem is that these projectiles do not have a cannelure and so you cannot ensure consistent neck tension and, therefore, shot to shot consistency.

With RWS projectiles (particularly the 293gn Tugs) and the new Woodleigh 286gn PP (which has a cannelure) I have had a lot more success even though I have only tried a couple of loads so far.

Have you had any experience with this problem or have any comments about it?

cheers,
Robert

p.s. Two weeks ago I had the opportunity to try out the Woodleigh PPs in the Chapuis on a red deer hind (for meat) and, at a range of about 200 yards, she went down as if hit by lightning. This was with a load of 62 grains of AR2209 (ADI Powder) in a RWS case and was a very satisfying result.

Gentlemen, 65 grains of IMR 4831, Norma Brass, Federal 215 primers, with 286 Woodleigh Softs, 286 Nosler Partitions, and 285 Hawk bullets works very well in my 9,3x74R Chapuis. They hit close enough together that I use the same zero for all 3 out to 200 yards.

N E 450 No2,

Wow ... every time I see your loads I wince. My rifle must have been regulated differently. My 270 gr Speer load is 62 gr of IMR 4831 and shoots a ragged group of both barrels.

Am just in the process of working with Woodleigh 286 gr RNs. The current load that is shooting a great group is 59 gr of IMR 4831. This was with Fed 215s and RWS cases.

Have not run these over the chrono yet. That will be very interesting indeed.

Had no luck getting a load the rifle would shoot with RL15. Have given up on that one.

I wonder if my rifle was regulated for a lighter load than was yours.