This might be like beating the dead horse, but I feel I need som inputs from experienced hunters.

Next year I will be doing a open range PG hunt i Namibia (two different camps)
At the first camp elephants frequently stroll along the Huab river system and it is not uncommon to bump into them.

I do not forsee any trouble and hope they just add some spice to the hunt.
If the shit hit the fan and we need to bail out,the PH will sertanly carry a gun able to handle the problems.

But if we run into serious trouble and (heaven forbid) my assistence is called for, which bullet will be most usefull in my 375 Ruger?
I will be hunting planes game (oryx, red hartebeest, mountain zebra and the like) and have been thinking along the lines of the 300 grn Barnes TXS.

If push comes to shove will this bullet be usefull against jumbo?

On the second camp, lions from Etosha occasionally mingle.
I do not expect any problems that may call for me to assist, but as an ex army and offshore sailor, I´m trained to think about "what if" and have a plan for how to cope.

Usually my 375 are loaded with A-frames or Woodleighs, but in this case I have been thinking more and more about the TSX as perhaps the best "do it all" bullet.
I have no experience with the TSX, so for me this is new land.

What you guys think?

a 458 win mag

Not sure if i would want to shoot a elephant with the TSX but it will be a fine choice for the other game you want. Maybe take a few solids with to make you feel better.

Carry a few solids, and if you encounter elephant, eject the round in the chamber and drop in a solid.

When you want to start using a 'soft or mono HP as a plan b on ele, cailbers that might be adequate are 416 rigby/rem, .458 Lott and more probably, .460 weatherby or .500 Jeffery.

It was for precisely this scenario that I originally got a double

Thank you guys.
I figured the solid was the right answer, but had a hope that I could do away with only one bullet type.

This is all hypotetic, but it never hurts to be prepared for the worst as both areas are DG country.
Especially after reading Ganyanas comment in another thread about the the group that had to shoot 17 eles in self defence to get safe back to the bakkie

When carrying my 375H&H bolt rifle, for plains game, in either the Zambezi Valley or the Save Conservancy, or anywhere the eles are considered aggressive, I load a soft in the chamber and a soft on top of three solids in the magazine.

One can eject two rounds quite quickly when motivated, faster than loading even one round. Also, upon the PH's direction, your soft can be shot over the troublesome ele's head rather than his solid, leaving him two if a double and a full mag if a bolt.

If your PG target isn't down with two, solids will still do the trick, and might even be prefered since they will go end to end, or make the vitals, on a going away shot.

JPK

A TSX does not shred into pieces like a softpoint. Here are two 180 grain TSX I receovered from A Waterbuck and a Kudu. Both retained 99.9% of their mass. The front opened up nicely.

So then the question becomes shouldn't 300 grain .375 perform the same way. Well unfortunately Barnes does NOT recommend the TSX for Ele.



However, Barnes also makes 300 grains Bonded Solids for .375 Ruger and they are labelled for Ele use.

My thoughts was a worst case scenario, when and if I had to assist the PH to save our bacon.

To stay there up against a pissed of elephant with only my usual 300 grn soft point Woodleighs does not seem to be a very good idee.

I felt that perhaps a deep reaching monometal like the TSX could be a compromise, but I guess compromises does not work out well in such a situation.

Better shop for a couple of boxes of some solids and start some reloading then, still got another year to decide

norma is loading a ph line with 350 grain bullets in both soft and solid in 375 H&H.
these are not cheap ammo but maybe good? spcially 350 gr solid maybe(i haven't try it yet on elephant can't find elephant in our part of world with exception of zoo.
i wonder if some african hunter had tried this ammo on elephant and can tell us about it.
regards
yes

I'd say go for the GS Custom flat nosed mono solid as the best solid option.

Arild,

JPK has it right on.

Not sure what your magazine takes and whether your PH will want you to use one up and three down or one up and four down (some, for example, prefer that EVERYBODY knows that EACH rifle ONLY has three rounds and then must reload...). Key is to work out the soft/solids in your magazines with the PH.

Regards, Tim

Shakari.
The GS bullets are a bit hard to come by in my neck of the woods, but your advice is noted!

Tim.
My 375 Ruger Hawkeye African holds three down and one up the tube.

Anyway... I have to talk this over with my PH.
For all I know he don´t want me to interfere at all...what so ever.
But I guess the situation is not uncommon hunting PG in DG country.
And for this old man, this will most likely be as close to DG as I ever will be

TSX....exellent choice.

If you may run into a POed ele I wouldn't want any soft point under the hammer. I want a solid and a damn good one at that. But then having been charged by eles a couple of times I am more cautious than most. I would suggest looking at the Hornady DGS solid if available in Norway. I haven't used it on eles in the 375 but have in the 458 Win. and in that caliber it gives deep penetration and a lot of tissue damage on frontal head shots. For the other species you mentioned the Woodleigh or the Swift will work fine. Then follow JPKs reccomendation on loading softs backed up by solids.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
Shakari.
The GS bullets are a bit hard to come by in my neck of the woods, but your advice is noted!

Tim.
My 375 Ruger Hawkeye African holds three down and one up the tube.

Anyway... I have to talk this over with my PH.
For all I know he don´t want me to interfere at all...what so ever.
But I guess the situation is not uncommon hunting PG in DG country.
And for this old man, this will most likely be as close to DG as I ever will be

The hell with bullets, get your butt in shape so you can run!!! You don't need to be able to out-run the trackers, just enough to get out of trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
When carrying my 375H&H bolt rifle, for plains game, in either the Zambezi Valley or the Save Conservancy, or anywhere the eles are considered aggressive, I load a soft in the chamber and a soft on top of three solids in the magazine.

One can eject two rounds quite quickly when motivated, faster than loading even one round. Also, upon the PH's direction, your soft can be shot over the troublesome ele's head rather than his solid, leaving him two if a double and a full mag if a bolt.

If your PG target isn't down with two, solids will still do the trick, and might even be prefered since they will go end to end, or make the vitals, on a going away shot.

JPK

That is a very good plan, especially when in aggressive elephant country.

I have always used the 272 grain Hirtenberger ABC bullet in my .375.

I would not hesitate to use one on an elephant. I am not sure how they would do on a frontal shot, but I think that if I waited long enough, one would do the job.

They penetrate like a deep hole drill, and are among the finest bullets ever made.

I will miss them dearly when my private stock runs out.

Stick with a solid, or have fun dealing with an angry elephant!!

Woodleighs 350grn FMJ.

I agree with Ozhunter, Norma do a very good load with the 350grn Woodleigh FMG's. to date I have not had a problem with them on Elephant.

Another vote for the GS FN I use them in my 458; 375 and 30-06. killed two elephants with the 458

I'd go with the Norma 350 Woodleigh loads, since you apprently don't reload?

Arild Iversen,

Let the ph sort out unprovoked charges and or agro animals as far as possible, regardless. That being said it is in any case advisable for hunters to take solids along even if you just bring 10-20 rounds. If you are going to shoot Elephant do it with solids if at all possible.

Also there is always the possibility of problem animals being declared.

Intereting question. mIght be an important one, too.

A-Square Monolitic, heaviest your rifle will feed, if you can find them would seem ideal. Bring your checkbook.

Vaughan
I do not intend to interfere in any way with elephant or any other DG that might show up, unless I´m specific told to do so by my PH.
Hopefully, and most likely, there will be no need.

But as I said, in case things get ugly, I do not cherish the thought staying there with only soft points.

So I will take the good advice and load up a handfull of solids and test them before I leave for Namibia.
They might even be good for klipspringer

jetdrvr
I do reload and both Woodleigh, Barnes, Nosler, A-Square and Hornady solids are available in local gunshops

look at the Hornady DG solid.

On .375 solids.

Try the old Nitrex/ solid made of Naval brass with Tungsten core. Will not deform /bend / seperate under any reasonable situation. (Exception stone. ) The meplat is about 70%. Speer no longer makes but now are made by Safari Select. They own the tooling and are retired from Speer. These are available only as a component.

These are the only solids we use in .375 cal. on DG and for us they group very well in our Win,Sako and Heym.

You are there to hunt PG...you have no business messing with elephant....give them wide birth.

Use TSX for PG. You will not be disappointed.

Besides...that is why you pay your PH...his job is to protect your ass and jump infront of the charging elephant to save your life.

I would bet the .375 TSX 300 grain would penetrate elephant brain with a frontal shot at 30 yards. Who wants to bet?


dale

Well you did say, "when push comes to shove," and that implies some serious cultural discussion with a 6 ton pachyderm.

In that case:
1. The PH and I should be shoulder to shoulder and he has the BIG gun.
2. I've long since gone strictly to 300 grain bullets in my .375 H&H. In my case, A-Frames, not copper like the Barnes. BUT gleaning sound advice from experienced people on this forum, I would and I will load 350 grain solids from Woodleigh. Distances would most likely be, shall we say, short, so minute of elephant is reasonable accuracy in those moments of stress.
3. Make sure your checking account balance is sufficient to cover the costs that you can't possibly conceive of.

Dale.
I do not intend to mess with eles, or lions for that sake.
I do intend to hunt PG, that´s what I´m going there for
But I also know that once in a while things turn out a bit different than planned.
Therefore I find the advice given by experienced hunters and PH´s on this thread, about carry a couple of solids in the magazine, very sound.
I will off course talk this over with my PH and follow his advice.

yellowstone.
I´m also a Swift-A frame / Woodleigh fan, and am looking forward to do some interesting load development.
I will talk to my bank about the possibility of upping the mortage on my house in case I suddenly need a serious amount of cash

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
You are there to hunt PG...you have no business messing with elephant....give them wide birth.

Use TSX for PG. You will not be disappointed.

Besides...that is why you pay your PH...his job is to protect your ass and jump infront of the charging elephant to save your life.

I would bet the .375 TSX 300 grain would penetrate elephant brain with a frontal shot at 30 yards. Who wants to bet?


dale

Everywhere there are elephant the elephants are different. Some areas they are mild mannered, some schitzophrenic and damned aggressive. But even in areas where they are mild mannered, you can find the bull in musthe or an aggressive tuskless or a cow with a bad attitude.

Yes, you can try to avoid elephants, but if there are many, you will inevitable bump into some, and they are suprisingly hard to see in the bush. Even giving them a wide berth may not always pan out, you may end up downwind, and then it is the elephants choice...

Sure, you can rely on your PH, and he may even be an elephant expert, but no matter how good he is, he is human, and failable. Better to go prepared than find that your PH is having a bad day and it is going to kill you, or him, or a tracker. You may be of some help and you may not, but you can't be of any help with softs only.

"I would bet the .375 TSX 300 grain would penetrate elephant brain with a frontal shot at 30 yards. Who wants to bet?"

I do. You go approach a bull elephant to 30yds (three times or more the distance that self defense would call for, self defense distance eliminates any second chances) and take a frontal shot on him with a 300gr TSX from a Ruger 375. You brain him and I'll send you a keg of your favorite draft.
You don't brain him, you send me a keg of Guinness, if your alive.

JPK