Thanks for the great forum Saeed and administrators. I've been doing a lot of reading and there's a wealth of information here. Like anywhere, there's ups and downs, but I like most of what I'm reading here.

Anyway, anyone have any comments on Speer Grand Slam 285 gr for plains game? I don't see many comments on them, lots like the Swift, Partition, Triple-X, etc. I'm shooting a Steyr 375 and have excellent accuracy with both the 250 gr Swift and 285 SGS, but am leaning towards the 285 grainers. Course that's the joy of shooting, I can always change my mind and use different bullets. Any comments appreciated, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

On several occasions I've bought a box of Grand Slams in various calibers from .257 to .338 to test prior to hunts.

I have little doubt that their bonded construction will be superior to such offerings as interlocks, silvertips, powerpoints and core lokts. However in every case the accuracy I got was disappointing. Granted a 3" group would have harvested the caribou/elk/other big game I was hunting I just didn't take them because I wanted less than half that group size before going hunting.

So because they have not passed my accuracy test I can't even vouch for them as a terminal performer.

Swift A-Frames, Northforks, Woodleighs and Nosler Partitions have passed the tests however.

The good news is that it don't really cost a lot to try them. You might be pleasantly surprised but I won't any more.

I have used them on plainsgame on both of my trips to Zimbabwe. The accuracy is good from my rifle and the bullet worked well on everything from Klipspringer to Zebra and Kudu. I have shot three zebras with this bullet and not one of them took a step.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
On several occasions I've bought a box of Grand Slams in various calibers from .257 to .338 to test prior to hunts.

I have little doubt that their bonded construction will be superior ....

I don't believe Grand Slams are bonded core bullets like a Woodleigh or a Swift A-Frame. (BTW: Speer's Hot Core process is not a bonded core.)

-Bob F.

Dom,

20 years or so ago when there was not the great selection of good 375 bullets that are on the market now I used the 285 GS quite a bit in Alaska. It worked very well on moose and caribou. I would not hesitate to use it on any thin skinned game. It does not shoot very accurately in my current 375 but this particuular rifle is a little finicky anyway.

The 250 SAF is also a great bullet. The BC is not great but it is very effective on game. I killed 5 caribou in one day with five shots all being pass throughs with that bullet.

If your thinking about plains game either bullet will work great. Just pick the one that shoots the best.

Regards,

Mark

The current prod. of Speer's GS is NOT bonded anymore than their HotCore. It's a decent bullet but they are priced like a Nosler partition & performance falls quite short of the NP. A decent bullet for plainsgame in your .375h&h.

I've shot the 285 grain Grand Slams out of my .375 for a number of years and will again when I leave for Zim on June 13th. I have shot everything from Eland to Steenbok with them and wouldn't hesitate to add leopard and lion to the mix. I would draw the line on them for the heavyweights like buff, etc. I am sure they would do the job if you had the right shot and placed your bullet just so...but there are a number of better choices out there for that type of game. Barnes X, Failsafes and SAF come to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
On several occasions I've bought a box of Grand Slams in various calibers from .257 to .338 to test prior to hunts.

I have little doubt that their bonded construction will be superior ....

I don't believe Grand Slams are bonded core bullets like a Woodleigh or a Swift A-Frame. (BTW: Speer's Hot Core process is not a bonded core.)

-Bob F.

Bob F. you are correct.....I have been assuming for years that the grand slams was a bonded bullet. The lead is poured into the jacket at 900 degrees but in no manner are they "bonded" as you suggested like the A-Frames and woodleights.

I thank you for correcting my error.

Great, thanks for the comments guys. I've been using SGS 180gr in thuttty '06 in a steady diet of European game with good results. I dunno, maybe I'll just use the 250gr SAF -- got 1" 5 shot groups w/4350 last weekend. I'm normally a heavier for caliber type bullet guy though, so maybe I'll try some 300gr SAF and see how they shoot. Least I'm at ease that if I did use the SGS, it would be up to the task for Plains Game.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
On several occasions I've bought a box of Grand Slams in various calibers from .257 to .338 to test prior to hunts.

I have little doubt that their bonded construction will be superior ....

I don't believe Grand Slams are bonded core bullets like a Woodleigh or a Swift A-Frame. (BTW: Speer's Hot Core process is not a bonded core.)

-Bob F.

Bob you are correct they aren't bonded cores.

Dom,

The bullet you use will cost you very little in the grand scheme of things, but if you use the wrong one, it may cost you your trophy.

There are many excellent, first-rate bullets out there, but the Speer Grand Slam isn't one of them. Go with a Nosler Partition, a Barnes X-Bullet, the Swift A-Frame, the Woodleigh Weldcore in SP or PP, a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or a Winchester Fail-Safe.

These are the best and--since any of us can afford the best bullets--why not use the best? Just try them and go with the one that your rifle shoots straightest.

I totally agree with mrlexma. The only bullet I ever had fail on game was a Grand Slam in .30 caliber (180 gr) . The bullet literally disintegrated when it hit bone. I called Speer and they didn't seem too surprised. I've never used them again. Partitions have served me well since then and now I use some Accubonds on lighter game like deer and antelope.

Dom,
Listen to mrlexma and others who are more of less vocally arguing for bonded core soft nose bullets instead. Clearly you want the 285 grain for something big. Yes, I shot an eland with one (distance 45-50 yards handload to about 2400 f/s from my .375). It was a felicitous error as I use my remaining supply of these 285 gr heads for plinking and put one at the top of the magazine loaded with Swift A-frame . Yes, it performed well but another day, another shot it will likely let you down.
Regards, Tim

Hey Fellas;
I'm a real newby when it comes to terminal results with jacketed bullets in larger caliber rifles.
Is it possible that the 285 Grand Slam might too lightly constructed for the velocities generated by the 375 H&H?
My 375 is a 375 Whelen, much smaller case capacity, lower velocity. I've only shot cast bullets through this rifle, with good results on paper, wood and steel.
Jim

This is one man's experience:

One of the, no probably THE best bullet on small and medium sized game.

Every animal shot has gone down instantly.

Best success story:
4 feet of penetration in a large ram on Santa Cruz Island.
Entered in through rear flank and punched out through the shoulder.

The Grand Slams, as well as all of their Mag-Tips or other Hot-Core bullets are bonded.

They are the ORIGINAL bonded bullet, predating the superglued Accubond (or however they attach it) or Interbond, or anything else that has come out in the past 15 or 20 years.

The lead core is soldered to the jacket and under no circumstances should they come apart.

The only times I have heard of them failing is if people push them at too high of speed as in out of a full load 30-378 or some other monster.

Always had good results in a regular 30-30 or medium 300 Weatherby load.

They also are better at close range.
Just because of the nature of the shape, they just don't fare well accuracy wise past 200 yards or so.

-Spencer

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
The Grand Slams, as well as all of their Mag-Tips or other Hot-Core bullets are bonded....They are the ORIGINAL bonded bullet....The lead core is soldered to the jacket and under no circumstances should they come apart.

No offense intended, Spencer, but your definition of bonded, as well as what were "the originals," seems to differ from what Jack Carter, Bill Steigers or the rest of the industry that has followed them would say.

Even Speer will only describe the Hot Cor process as "improving grip" and that it "minimizes core slippage." Their (now) TBBC is the only one they actually claim to be "bonded" and they give credit where credit is due on that one.

OK, you guys are selling me on a different bullet, I'm biting. If you were to hunt Namibia later in the season, greater probability longer shots, I mean out to 250, would you use the SAF 250 or the 300 grainers, and why? I mean there's probably nothing wrong with 250 grainers, but if you're shooting a 375, you might as well take better potential of the caliber and push out 300's. Or is this flawed reasoning? And I wholeheartedly agree, the price of premium bullets is NOT a concern to me. I'll take what you guys KNOW works.

Like I said, Grand Slams tend not to work so well past 200-250 yards.

If it were me, I would go with the Nosler Partition.

You should get better accuracy at longer ranges and the bullet design itself is as battle tested as one could be.

-Spencer

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
This is one man's experience:

.....<snip>....

The Grand Slams, as well as all of their Mag-Tips or other Hot-Core bullets are bonded.

They are the ORIGINAL bonded bullet, predating the superglued Accubond (or however they attach it) or Interbond, or anything else that has come out in the past 15 or 20 years.

The lead core is soldered to the jacket and under no circumstances should they come apart.

....<snip>....

-Spencer

Nope. The Hot-Cor process does not produce a bonded core bullet. It only means Speer pours molten lead into the jacket. That does not bond the core to the bullet. Grand Slams, Mag-Tips or other Hot-Cor bullets do not have the core soldered or chemically bonded to the jacket.

Also, I believe one of the original bonded core bullets was the Bitterroot Bonded Core. Followed by the Woodleigh and Jack Carter's Trophy Bonded (I'm not sure which came first).

Speer purchased Trophy Bonded from Jack Carter. The Trophy Bonded bullets are the only bullets that Speer sells that have a true bonded core.


From Speer's web site:

================
SPEER Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Rifle Bullets

The front lead core is fusion-bonded to the jacket at high temperatures, creating a true bonded core. The solid rear shank stands up to punishment that destroy lesser bullets. The fusion process leaves the front portion of the jacket soft so Bear Claws expand reliably over a wide range of velocities. The solid shank remains intact for the ultimate in bullet integrity.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=3&s2=7&s3=12


SPEER Grand Slam Premium Big Game Rifle Bullets

Then there's the core. It's our proprietary ternary alloy (that means three metals) poured into the jackets molten at 900 degrees F to eliminate oxides that cause core slippage.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=3&s2=7&s3=19


SPEER Hot-Cor Bullets

These bullets hold together better because the Hot-Cor process eliminates the lead oxide layer that's found between the core and jacket of conventional "cold core" bullets. Profiled jacket interiors add strength to the bullet shank.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=3&s2=7&s3=14

================

Note: I'm not trying to be argumentative or to "pick a fight" with this post. I'm merely trying to provide information.

-Bob F.

I was able to push the 250 SAF at 2880fps from a 375 H&H quite easily. If those shoot in your rifle they will work well for anything. On the other hand why if you probably will have long shots are you taking a 375. I know it is very "African" but it really isn't an open country rifle. Something like a 300 magnum of some sort and a 180 NP would do the whole thing from close to far on plains game and probably be more pleasant to shoot.

Regards,

Mark

Dom,
I've used 235 Barnes, 260 Nosler, 270 can't recall, 300 Barnes, and have finally settled on 300 Swift A-frame for everything with the .375. Suggest you pick a weight, handload the three-four premium bonded heads and go with the one that shoots the best group at 100 yds. If you don't want to handload, buy premium ammo with Nosler, Swift or other heads and see what gives the best group.

Key is to know your rifle and ammo and where it prints at any likely range and practice. Regards, Tim

I shot a lot of game some years ago with Speer bullets and never had a failure, they all performed to perfection, however, with todays bullets and core bonding, partitioning I felt it was best to use the best, and most modern design the industry had to offer...

Based on that, I don't use Speer bullets much these days, I pretty much confined my hunting bullets to Northfork, Woodleigh, Nosler and GS Customs....all have served me to perfection.

Well I guess I am mistaken.

I like it that Speer gives you some idea as to how their bullets are put together.

I would be curious to know how the Interbond and Accubond bullets are put together and whether or not it is some sort of super glue.


-Spencer

I highly doubt any sort of super glue would stand up to molten lead. As far as I know, while I'm sure they all have their specific minute differences, all the current bonded bullets are made in a pretty similar manor--by melting the lead in the jacket in the presence of a chemical similar to that available from corbin.

It isn't that the bonding process is all that complicated or difficult, but that it presents some challenges to mass manufacturing which is probably why it has taken so long for the big guys to "catch up" to the custom bullet makers.

In simple terms, lead is soldered to copper in a bonded bullet, it works as close to 100% as we have ever gotten from bullet companies, so give them your support...

Speer uses soft metal up front, hard metel in the rear and depends on jacket thickness for expansion, plus the hot core process which is basically melted and poured in to avoid pores and air space etc...It works quit well most of the time, but core bonding and partitions are the latest and best method of maintaining bullet integrity..

I am far from a bullet expert, but I have a basic knowledge and have used most bullet enough on game to know what works and what does not, I leave the technical aspect and therory business to those with more bullet making knowledge, than I......