quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
Andrew ??????

11,000 buffalo?????? Come on Charl.

Andrew, the whole Morremeu complex have a lot of Buffalo. I have heard the figure of 44,000, and Mr. boddington on Buffalo 2 gives it in the region of 14,000 I believe, although I cannot remember. I do not know precisely how much Coutada 10 does have, but Coutadas 10,12,14 (11?) have in the region of 10,000 Buffalo between them, and they roam those swamps and woods freely. We have approx 500 in our area, and I got news last week that a big herd from the reserva (Morremeu) made it over river into our area. They say it is at least two hundred animals!

The figures might be mind blowing I know, but it is said it is the biggest natural concentration of Buff in AFRICA!

Futhermore I would also say, 6,8,10, 11, 15 Thousand? Who cares, it's a hell of a lot of Buffalo!

Those guys have quota's of 40-80 Buffalo Bulls a year mate!

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Mike,

I believe those are the license fees, not the trophy fees.

Could you please explain the difference between one and the other ?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Mike,

I believe those are the license fees, not the trophy fees.

Could you please explain the difference between one and the other ?

License fees are purchased up front and are not refunded regardless of whether or not you take the animal for which you purchased a license. It is also my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) that you cannot purchase these licenses while the hunt is taking place, but must be in possession of them to hunt the individual animals.

Trophy fees are an additional charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Mike,

I believe those are the license fees, not the trophy fees.

Could you please explain the difference between one and the other ?

License fees are purchased up front and are not refunded regardless of whether or not you take the animal for which you purchased a license. It is also my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) that you cannot purchase these licenses while the hunt is taking place, but must be in possession of them to hunt the individual animals.

Trophy fees are an additional charge.

Correct.

Another word for license would be TAG fee. Then the operator charges a trophy fee on top of that.

For example. Buffalo sold for tag fee of say $850.00 plus a trophy fee of $2,500.00

I will be supprised if this comes to pass. If it does very few will hunt there. I am not going to bet either way but those I have spoken with in the last week are divided as to whether it will or won't happen.

LHook7:

Looks like the Moz boys are out to make a buck - TZ for example may have high fees (Trophy fees) the only other "licensing" fees are related to the Game Hunting Permit which is the document which lists all the species allowed on permit for the safari type, eg. 10,16 or 21 days. NB a 21 day full bag gives you the privilege of all the DG species (triple on Buffalo), Elephant, Lion, Leopard and all the available antelopes (double on some).
The cost of this permit (privilege) comes at a reasonable price (one off)and as stated earlier, one settles the bill against what has been shot and not what is listed.
With the way things are shaping up in Moz a hunt in TZ or Zambia for that matter is beginning to look quite affordable once more, AND you can at least export your Elephant back to the states

quote:

The figures might be mind blowing I know, but it is said it is the biggest natural concentration of Buff in AFRICA!

May you never have seen the Okavango Delta, Moyowosi-Kigosi Blocks in Western Tansania or Selous G.R

quote:

The figures might be mind blowing I know, but it is said it is the biggest natural concentration of Buff in AFRICA!

I wonder who said that ?

I think you'll find that according to the various scientific studies carried out by the Frankfurt Zoological Society (over many years) Tanzania holds more cape buffalo than all the other east and southern African countries combined.

sorry, I fotgot to ad head per acres.....IT carries no substance, someone just said it to me once. I do not know. I do not think anyone realy knows. And yes, I have not been to Tanzania, but I have been to the Okovango Delta.

Remember in Moz, in addition to the license fee, each trophy also has an export fee.

So each animal you shoot has a license, export and trophy fee.

405wcf

in the 8 animals i have brought out of Moz in the last 3 years( and i just rechecked the paper work) i was never charged an export fee- just the usual fee to complete paperwork charged by the shipper( and it wasn't much). license fee was always added into the overall hunt cost, although i imagine hunt costs will have to climb to cover the increased license cost. no matter what, this is BAD NEWS for my Moz friends. once again, ASfrican governments blow their leg off trying to bleed hunters dry.

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
Andrew, the whole Morremeu complex have a lot of Buffalo. I have heard the figure of 44,000, and Mr. boddington on Buffalo 2 gives it in the region of 14,000 I believe, although I cannot remember. I do not know precisely how much Coutada 10 does have, but Coutadas 10,12,14 (11?) have in the region of 10,000 Buffalo between them, and they roam those swamps and woods freely. We have approx 500 in our area, and I got news last week that a big herd from the reserva (Morremeu) made it over river into our area. They say it is at least two hundred animals!

The figures might be mind blowing I know, but it is said it is the biggest natural concentration of Buff in AFRICA!

Futhermore I would also say, 6,8,10, 11, 15 Thousand? Who cares, it's a hell of a lot of Buffalo!

Those guys have quota's of 40-80 Buffalo Bulls a year mate!

I am not disputing quotas mate but to advertise that one concession has access to 11,000 buffalo is a bit rich and bordering on what I would call false advertising.

If we refer to what has been posted on AR which is a fairly accurate cross section of the industry then I would state the best trophies are coming out of Tanzania and Zimbabwe. When I say good trophies the I am referring to good length and hard mass. Therefore one can conclude good healthy populations attached to realistic quotas.

I have yet to see consistent quality coming out of Mozambique albeit claims to an excessive population.

Dont worry Charl.
Some people were born to know it all. I was not but I learn very fast.

quote:

If we refer to what has been posted on AR which is a fairly accurate cross section of the industry then I would state the best trophies are coming out of Tanzania and Zimbabwe. When I say good trophies the I am referring to good length and hard mass. Therefore one can conclude good healthy populations attached to realistic quotas.

In addition it should be noted that while both of the above have been hunted consistently over the years, the quality of trophy buffalo has on average maintained its quality, indicating a large and well managed population of buffalo.
It is no secret that a hunter who wants a good chance of securing himself a serious buffalo will be looking at ZIM, ZAM & TZ as the likely venues.

For the record – As of today there is no firm decision by Mozambique government on the increase of license fees for 2012. The Mozambique Hunting outfitters association ( AMOS ) has requested that the proposed increase takes place over 3 years in equal increments. Zambeze Delta Safaris has taken a decision to absorb and increases for 2012 and will honour our current 2012 pricelist for the 2012 season.

See you all at the shows.

Mark and Glen Haldane
Zambeze Delta Safaris
gamehunt@sai.co.za

quote:

Originally posted by Zambeze Delta safaris:

Zambeze Delta Safaris has taken a decision to absorb and increases for 2012 and will honour our current 2012 pricelist for the 2012 season.

Respect!

quote:

Originally posted by Zambeze Delta safaris:
For the record – As of today there is no firm decision by Mozambique government on the increase of license fees for 2012. The Mozambique Hunting outfitters association ( AMOS ) has requested that the proposed increase takes place over 3 years in equal increments. Zambeze Delta Safaris has taken a decision to absorb and increases for 2012 and will honour our current 2012 pricelist for the 2012 season.

See you all at the shows.

Mark and Glen Haldane
Zambeze Delta Safaris
gamehunt@sai.co.za

That shows a lot of integrity. Looking forward to hunting with you next year.

quote:

For the record – As of today there is no firm decision by Mozambique government on the increase of license fees for 2012. The Mozambique Hunting outfitters association ( AMOS ) has requested that the proposed increase takes place over 3 years in equal increments. Zambeze Delta Safaris has taken a decision to absorb and increases for 2012 and will honour our current 2012 pricelist for the 2012 season.

See you all at the shows.

Mark and Glen Haldane
Zambeze Delta Safaris
gamehunt@sai.co.za

The hallmark of a "first-class" outfit. Well done.

For a man afraid of a rogue suni ( inside joke ) you really stepped up to the plate on that my friend. You will enjoy both Russel M. and David U. and boys, you will enjoy ZDS and Mark's staff start to finish !

quote:

Originally posted by Zambeze Delta safaris:
For the record – As of today there is no firm decision by Mozambique government on the increase of license fees for 2012. The Mozambique Hunting outfitters association ( AMOS ) has requested that the proposed increase takes place over 3 years in equal increments. Zambeze Delta Safaris has taken a decision to absorb and increases for 2012 and will honour our current 2012 pricelist for the 2012 season.

See you all at the shows.

Mark and Glen Haldane
Zambeze Delta Safaris
gamehunt@sai.co.za

I've hunted with ZDS twice, 2003 & 2005 and have taken clients to their camps. Mark and Glen are both class acts and I'd hunt with either of them again. They have some exceptional Buff and world class small antelope - more than a couple new world records in the last decade.

Guys,

To add to what the Haldanes have said I rec'd an e-mail from Gary Duckworth this morning stating that he thought the price increases were squashed for now.

Mark

The whole blog or discussion (link) are by persons who are not resident in Mozambique and most do not have a clue of what is going on here.

If they were members of the operators association they would have know that these fees were preposed for this year and the association managed to get it put forward for a year to enable us to warn clients etc. What is bad is that they have not released anything as of yet and it is marketing time.

Mozambique (except for elephant) has the lowest licence fees in the region – in fact too low and the government has a right to raise them to increase funds in this field to enable them to increase efforts in this sector.

We operators in the Niassa Reserve already pay royalty fees on top of these low licence fees.

There are a lot of foreign fly by night operators who make a killing out of these licence fees also by charging their clients the government fee (actually the licence / trophy fee) and if they do not get they animal they still charge the client and then go on to sell it again to the next client making a huge profit.

I do not charge two fees and the client pays for what he kills or wounds – period.

Thank you

JAMIE WILSON

Luambeze Safaris
Pemba Mozambique

WWW.LUAMBEZE.COM

+258 82 305 2817

quote:

What is bad is that they have not released anything as of yet and it is marketing time.

Now THAT is very dangerous - someone actually stated that they would honor the deal they had in place with clients and pay the difference in price should it come into effect - they must be millionaires to be able to cover the 1000% increase!

These non refundable licence fee increases just make the other African countries way more attractive.

I was hoping to hunt Moz next safari, but not for excessive non refundable licence fees upfront. Unless the increase is compensated in the daily rates ie they are reduced, and instead the trophy fees increased to make up the difference.

All in all, it is a competitive industry and it is easy to compare one countries pricing to another and book accordingly. Moz by no means should be on the higher price lists, compared to more attractive countries.

Hopefully they see some sense.

Now if the total "trophy fees" were already comparable, does that mean the outfitters have been pocketing the difference? Assuming comparable daily rates.

So I presume that all these emails I get from AMOS are BS? Or do non-resident operators get different emails than resident operators? Yes, the charges are not definite, but the way I read the correspondence is that the second tier recommondations are going to implemented from 2012.

Then again, what will $1,000.00 extra do to a $20,000.00 safari?

All I am saying is that if you do not cover your wickets, and sell cheap hunts, you might get burned.

Honouring a price list given to clients goes without saying.

quote:

Originally posted by Jamie Wilson:


JAMIE WILSON

Luambeze Safaris
Pemba Mozambique

WWW.LUAMBEZE.COM

+258 82 305 2817

Happy new year Jamie!
Hope the 2012 season goes well for you
Cheers,
Adam

quote:

Originally posted by Jamie Wilson:
The whole blog or discussion (link) are by persons who are not resident in Mozambique and most do not have a clue of what is going on here.

If they were members of the operators association they would have know that these fees were preposed for this year and the association managed to get it put forward for a year to enable us to warn clients etc. What is bad is that they have not released anything as of yet and it is marketing time.

Mozambique (except for elephant) has the lowest licence fees in the region – in fact too low and the government has a right to raise them to increase funds in this field to enable them to increase efforts in this sector.

We operators in the Niassa Reserve already pay royalty fees on top of these low licence fees.

There are a lot of foreign fly by night operators who make a killing out of these licence fees also by charging their clients the government fee (actually the licence / trophy fee) and if they do not get they animal they still charge the client and then go on to sell it again to the next client making a huge profit.

I do not charge two fees and the client pays for what he kills or wounds – period.

Thank you

JAMIE WILSON

Luambeze Safaris
Pemba Mozambique

WWW.LUAMBEZE.COM

+258 82 305 2817

Hello Jamie,

I must be missing something...

"There are a lot of foreign fly by night operators who make a killing out of these licence fees also by charging their clients the government fee (actually the licence / trophy fee) and if they do not get they animal they still charge the client and then go on to sell it again to the next client making a huge profit."
Isn’t that what they are supposed to do, according to the Mozambique government regulations? If I understand the system correctly, an operator is required to pay the license fee before the hunt is conducted and collect a trophy fee if the animal is shot (killed and/or wounded and lost). No one refunds the license fee (for sure not the Mozambique government) regardless of whether the animals are wounded, killed or never even seen and the next hunter to come along pays the same license fee as the previous hunter (kind of like the client is paying for the privilage to come hunt those particular animals) and so on and so on. The operator (foreign or national) isn’t screwing over the client, the government is.

Obviously you agree with this practice, because you wrote, “Mozambique (except for elephant) has the lowest licence fees in the region – in fact too low and the government has a right to raise them to increase funds in this field to enable them to increase efforts in this sector.”

And if this is true, “I do not charge two fees and the client pays for what he kills or wounds – period.” Then you are falsifying government documents as it relates to your hunts, thus screwing the government out of their rightful claim (my take on your words as quoted above) to funds to be paid before any hunt takes place and possibly endangering your client’s ability to return to Mozambique and/or possibly face hefty fines.

I am just really having a hard time understanding your logic here...But, maybe that is just me...in any regard,

Cheers,

Brian

quote:

Originally posted by 405wcf:
Remember in Moz, in addition to the license fee, each trophy also has an export fee.

So each animal you shoot has a license, export and trophy fee.

405wcf

That is what I thought...

The concern for me is that other African countries will follow the example set by Moz if this goes ahead. In 2007, the TZ wildlife divsion raised Trophy fees, etc on the basis that other Governments were charging more........ until they were provided with evidence to the contrary by the Associations.

Was just informed that the price increase is delayed a year, hopefully Moz will preceed with caution and discretion so that it will continue to draw hunters to what has become an Eden for buffalo hunting. You can all argue about buff numbers and while there is no way Moz tops Tazania there are a ton of buffalo in a relatively small area. As to trophy quality Zim is still the best price for a big old bull hands down. TheSafariConnection.com