I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather did instead of screaming like the passengers in his car.

Saeed

That's very true but if you'd ever experienced one of my landings you'd appreciate how much closer to God I can make most people feel!

Wink,

Damn but that was funny!

Seems to me that everything in life and business is NEGOITABLE!! In the case of TZ-charters, this negoitation should begin well before the safari and with the Ourfitter. Either it is a reasonable cost for the service you are receiving...or CANCEL the HUNT!! That's where the rubber meets the road and he will get the point.
EVERYTIME ONE OF US BENDS OVER AND PAYS A RIDICULOUS FEE, YOU ARE VALIDATING IT FOR THE OPERATOR AND IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO CHANGE!!..and for the rest of us who have the dream of TZ!!
The comments about a $9000 charter on a donated hunt is simply RIDICULOUS!!I hope that donation goes begging...and maybe that is the purpose...outfitter gets his "points for Donating"....hunt doesn't sell, no skin of his nose!!
Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
The aircraft was a Piper PA31-350 according to this and I think that makes it a Navajo?

I don't know if they have a manual/emergency flap control and hopefully one you experienced pilots can comment but I have a vague idea they did have....... could very easily be wrong on that though.

My own experience is mostly limited to things like Cessnas, Kitfoxes and a bit on the R22 and I was bloody useless on all of them which is why I gave it up before I killed myself or some other bugger!

Shakari,

A PA-31-350 is a piper Chieftain which is a stretch Navajo with more powerful engines. I just talked to a friend who flew freight in Chieftains and he says there is no alternate flap extension system on the PA-31-350 that he can remember.

There is a manual gear extension system, maybe that is what you are thinking of.

There are very few light straight wing GA aircraft that do have an alternate flap extension system as they can fly slow enough for normal operations without flaps. A totally different animal than a swept wing jet that needs flaps for landing due to highly increased stall speeds without them.

OK. Thanks. I thought I remembered a floor mounted lever that was emergency/manual flaps but am obviously wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:


Todd,

Ok get your point. I do not believe I have personally stated that food supplies are being flown in in TZ as a reason why operating costs are higher here than elsewhere. Others may have suggested that as a reason. I personally consider food supplies to be similar in Tz to other countries. Dry foods and beverage is usually sent by road in bulk with 1 mid-season re-supply and only fresh and perishable sent in with the flight.

Other operating items like fuel, equipment, vehicle spares, etc are more likely to be part of the reason of higher operating costs.

Bwanamich,

Thanks for carrying on the debate in a gentlemanly manner. So often here, debates become personal and ugly. I appreciate your input. Sorry if I implied it was you that rationalized the TZ rates based partially on re-supply. Some one brought it up and it just didn't hold water as an argument to me.

Personally, I don't think the TZ prices need to be "justified". In a free market, the sustainable prices are what the market will bare. I think the approach of "The hunt cost this much, if you don't want to pay that amount, hunt elsewhere because there are hunters that will pay" is just fine. This includes the cost of the charter. It's upfront and simply stated without "justification". I mean, after all, even the Zim prices are crazy and there is NO WAY we could really "justify" paying what we do to pursue our passion! If we weren't addicted to Africa, we would all spend the money on more "reasonable" endeavors!! As Surestrike pointed out, the guys in the charter business are trying to make as much as they can. I know I do the same in my business and I'd sure as hell do it if I operated a charter service in Africa. I really do want to wear those fancy shoulder boards with the dangly things and be called "Commodore"!!

TZ is out of my price range at this point in my life, but I never say never! Hopefully, I'll be able to share a camp with you one day.

Cheers,

Todd

Surestrike and Todd spot on regarding the no-flap issue. Dittos of the market forces calling the price shots in Tanzania. When I was still active duty I took a jet (T-39 Sabreliner) with three student on a X country to Reno to attend SCI. We parked at an FBO that had gov't contract fuel and no landing fees for military so the students went to ski and I went to SCI. What I found most amazing were the number of private jets parked there ALL were going to SCI and what was really impressive was a full blown 727 that landed with a logo on the tail. There was a big limo waiting at the ramp. TWO passengers, a man and a woman got off, yep just two followed by an entire flight crew. Somehow I don't think any of the folks who rolled in there on Citations, G4s not to mention the 727 give a rat's ass about the cost of a charter...

i guess if you can afford a $30,000 buffalo hunt, an additional $9000 charter isn't a problem.... wish i was that blessed.

JD-another 30% for a charter...that is a PREMIUM in any Book!!No way in my book...and no $30K Buff either!!

Jorge- maybe a couple of those jets were bringing in the owners of the TZ Hunting Companies??
HA-you are dating yourself by talking about the Sabreliner. Lots of great old memories in our Company first Biz Jet, really sucked fuel by today's standards...picked up the biggest load of ice I have ever seen one night dropping into the Puget Sound basin!!3" on leading edge and nacelles in about 10 minutes!!...in the Reserves, early 70's, used fly training to the Academy in the General's T-39 (to pick up Coors too)!! Remember an old desk Colonel that thought he could fly thru thunderstorms near ABQ with one too, ended up at 50K before it spit him 0ut!!....that one went to the bone yard....but nobody hurt, only the airplane!! Had to wear a one armed sweater in the Captains seat to prevent frostbite!! Remember Bob Hoover's show in the Sabreliner/Shrike Commander/Mustang!!...AH, the good old days!!There are still a few flying....but the fuel cost is worse than TZ charters!!
Cheers

Hi folks, while enjoying your thread i thought that Beryl Markham (west with the night)might just raise a smile as well.jc

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Surestrike and Todd spot on regarding the no-flap issue. Dittos of the market forces calling the price shots in Tanzania. When I was still active duty I took a jet (T-39 Sabreliner) with three student on a X country to Reno to attend SCI. We parked at an FBO that had gov't contract fuel and no landing fees for military so the students went to ski and I went to SCI. What I found most amazing were the number of private jets parked there ALL were going to SCI and what was really impressive was a full blown 727 that landed with a logo on the tail. There was a big limo waiting at the ramp. TWO passengers, a man and a woman got off, yep just two followed by an entire flight crew. Somehow I don't think any of the folks who rolled in there on Citations, G4s not to mention the 727 give a rat's ass about the cost of a charter...

Yes, but they don't make movies about rich guys who own their own planes and hunt.

Yes they did John! The Last Safari with Stewart Granger

Jorge:

I sat next next to what I thought was your typical biz guy the other day. He said he was a former Navy pilot; flew F4s and F14s. I told him I recently visited a base with a classmate who is an O6 and I was shocked to see O Clubs are really non-existent. I told him the best one I saw was Ft Richardson in the late 80s; he said the best one he ever saw was at Miramar. Not only had he been at Top Gun, he had been an instructor. Did we have a good bullshit session.

Oh well, things change and NFWS is not even there anymore...

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Jorge:

I sat next next to what I thought was your typical biz guy the other day. He said he was a former Navy pilot; flew F4s and F14s. I told him I recently visited a base with a classmate who is an O6 and I was shocked to see O Clubs are really non-existent. I told him the best one I saw was Ft Richardson in the late 80s; he said the best one he ever saw was at Miramar. Not only had he been at Top Gun, he had been an instructor. Did we have a good bullshit session.

Oh well, things change and NFWS is not even there anymore...

By far the best O Club experience ever was Miramar a couple of months after Top Gun came out! It was a "TARGET RICH" environment the likes of which I've never seen since!

http://seemslegit.com/_images/...a5304cf2836b02b/3084 - animals giraffe.jpg

Just to add a bit of levity to a serious topic.

Here ya go, Lavaca, I think this will show up:

Regards,
hm

AH...another foot and he would have made it!!

Looks like landing flaps, at least on the left side, and a bit of runway remaining!! Must have been a HELLEVA sudden Stop!!

OUCH...at least there was no fire!!...no hazzards like that in Alaska!!...and two engines and two pilots...or "stripes" probably wouldn't have saved this one??!!

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Jorge:

I sat next next to what I thought was your typical biz guy the other day. He said he was a former Navy pilot; flew F4s and F14s. I told him I recently visited a base with a classmate who is an O6 and I was shocked to see O Clubs are really non-existent. I told him the best one I saw was Ft Richardson in the late 80s; he said the best one he ever saw was at Miramar. Not only had he been at Top Gun, he had been an instructor. Did we have a good bullshit session.

Oh well, things change and NFWS is not even there anymore...

By far the best O Club experience ever was Miramar a couple of months after Top Gun came out! It was a "TARGET RICH" environment the likes of which I've never seen since!

spent a bit of time in that O club when i lived in Rancho Santa F and had a friend who was an instructor there( mid 80's). it was indeed a nice place.

thankx guys for all ur coments,i must repeat one qoute here..man proposes god disposses.i was suppose to leave on 13th nov but sadly that day my father got stroke and died in 3 days on vent and i didnt go.now again im off and driving by road.i guess everything happens for reason.im thankfull to u all hounerable member and friends who supported me during this time.may GOD bless u all and keep u healthy and safe with happiness.kind regards

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Jorge:

I sat next next to what I thought was your typical biz guy the other day. He said he was a former Navy pilot; flew F4s and F14s. I told him I recently visited a base with a classmate who is an O6 and I was shocked to see O Clubs are really non-existent. I told him the best one I saw was Ft Richardson in the late 80s; he said the best one he ever saw was at Miramar. Not only had he been at Top Gun, he had been an instructor. Did we have a good bullshit session.

Oh well, things change and NFWS is not even there anymore...

By far the best O Club experience ever was Miramar a couple of months after Top Gun came out! It was a "TARGET RICH" environment the likes of which I've never seen since!

And I'm proud to say "I was there"! for the Heyday before the likes of Schroeder and the rest of the democrats ruined the armed forces. In fact, we took the "Top Gun" idea back to Cecil Field and pronounced "Top Gun Night" at the small club there. We then sent out Junior Officers (I was one back then) with fliers all over Jax inviting women to the Club for the festivities.

Unfortunately our PC-poisoned leadership killed the whole concept of the Warrior Culture by declaring that type of "fun" as unacceptable. Just another reason to hate democraps (nice thread Hijack huh? )

Jorge,

One of my good buddies is a doctor in the Navy he's based at Coronado. He is currently an O5. He showed me an order that came down through the Navy medical corps that forbids the use of the term "flip chart" for medical personal. They were worried that it may insult Filipino service members.

PC to the max and ruining this country day be day.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Jorge:

I sat next next to what I thought was your typical biz guy the other day. He said he was a former Navy pilot; flew F4s and F14s. I told him I recently visited a base with a classmate who is an O6 and I was shocked to see O Clubs are really non-existent. I told him the best one I saw was Ft Richardson in the late 80s; he said the best one he ever saw was at Miramar. Not only had he been at Top Gun, he had been an instructor. Did we have a good bullshit session.

Oh well, things change and NFWS is not even there anymore...

By far the best O Club experience ever was Miramar a couple of months after Top Gun came out! It was a "TARGET RICH" environment the likes of which I've never seen since!

And I'm proud to say "I was there"! for the Heyday before the likes of Schroeder and the rest of the democrats ruined the armed forces. In fact, we took the "Top Gun" idea back to Cecil Field and pronounced "Top Gun Night" at the small club there. We then sent out Junior Officers (I was one back then) with fliers all over Jax inviting women to the Club for the festivities.

Unfortunately our PC-poisoned leadership killed the whole concept of the Warrior Culture by declaring that type of "fun" as unacceptable. Just another reason to hate democraps (nice thread Hijack huh? )

Jorge,

I "Was There" for the Cecil Field "Top Gun Nights" as well as that is where I flew Hornets out of. The "War Party" of Strike Fighter Squadron 87!

Somehow, I think that if we don the cool shoulder boards with the stringy things, call ourselves, "Commodore", and take our act to Africa where we dodge Giraffe on final in our Cessna 206, things just ain't gonna be the same!

Yep, the warrior culture is dead. We saw the last of it my friend!

"War Party" my how "un-PC" of you! Man those were the days. Did you know they knocked down the old BOQ a few years back? I saw it. Sad.

Say, maybe we can help these idjits out by showing them how to install some sort of short field arrestment wire, then we could hire out as LSOs for trophy fee prices of course.

quote:

call ourselves, "Commodore", and take our act to Africa where we dodge Giraffe on final in our Cessna 206

Uh Huh ....

Hey fujo, one question, how many traps do you have?...

they plan for the first wire and are lucky if they hit any wire....