The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What is a fair requestGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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on a 10 day hunt with 10 species on your list what is reasonable expectations from the client. "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | ||
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I think you will find many hunters don't really care about the inches. (SCI Inner Circle Members Excluded, of course) They go for the enjoyable experience. I tried to answer only the last question, and your poll won't accept my answer. As it requires every question to be answered. And my answers won't fit with the choices you have given. | |||
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Dear 375 I would also say it depends on what you asked for, were promised and paid for. It is always nice to do a trip and get at least 1 big one. But the adventure will last much longer in your mind then the big animal. Some of the best trips I have had, only shot average heads, but 100% effort and a fun time had. Every one has there own view on a good hunt. Regards Cam | |||
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+1 Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Your first question is difficult to answer. There is a big difference between "expect", "demand" and "hope for". | |||
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cameron it is exactly about what you ask for and what you get. for this scenario lets say that you booked for 10 species with no specific sizes. you shoot 3 gold medal animals but you are still upset because you expect a 30 " wildebeest a 31" waterbuck a 57" kudu and a 24" impala and you pass up 20 opportunities on mature representatives. do you have a right to be upset because you only shot one animal in 6 days "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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It's always a problem when a client arrives and calmly announces trophy expectations that can't be met in the particular area you'll be hunting. If of course he'd discussed it with you beforehand, you could perhaps have suggested other areas as being more suitable for his needs. I'd say that if the client hadn't discussed such requirements with you beforehand then he had no right to feel dissatisfied when those trophies weren't available. PHs can be good, often bloody good but they can't be magicians and they can't produce a specific trophy quality where it doesn't occur any more than they can make a Thompson's gazelle or a giant sable etc appear in an area the species doesn't occur. You have my sympathy mate!  | |||
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Every animal I took in Africa made the book.....yes... MY BOOK, the only one that I care about....even this little guy taken with my father's .25-20 lever gun!  http://img.photobucket.com/alb...apospics/duikerA.jpg /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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If I had known that I could have a Rowland Ward trophy just for asking then I guess I've been doing it all wrong up until now. Does this also work in "wild" areas or only on ranches? _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Totally ridiculous poll. Can it.  | |||
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As far as trophy quality is concerned, I think a fair request is that your PH and his team get you onto as many mature and decent-sized animals as they can in the given time, without breaking the law of the land. I have no time for these guarantees of gold medal this and copper medal that when it comes to hunting. It is always fine to take an exceptional trophy, but it is certainly not the be all and end all. Buffalo are a good example - I would much prefer taking a gnarly, worn-down, 37 inch dagga boy than a 44 inch jongos. Simply my preference - yet another instance of different strokes for different blokes. | |||
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I don't want a medal. A nice stalk and a mature animal are success for me. | |||
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Well let me throw my .02 cents... It depends on what type of hunt you're going on and why you're going. (Now some people might disagree with me here, like always this is AR, and people will argue whether the sky is blue 99% of the time.) For some people, just shooting a bunch of anything trophies will suffice. I think on your first safaris, people are excited and more willing to pull the trigger on anything. Which can lead to people shooting average animals, maybe even sometimes less than average. Other's this might be their 2-25th safari, and they have personal goals of upping their previous hunts. So then they will start falling into the "inch hunter" category. I always find it interesting that some people start to get so negative on people who wish to hunt for inches...which at some basic level we are all inch hunters. If not, why don't we just hunt females? Myself, having taken three safaris, on my 3rd trip adopted the attitude, if it's not really a very large specimen, I would rather pass. As I do set a budget for all the hunts, and know that I have many years left to hunt, I would rather not leave with that particular specie than, shoot just a representative, unless it's something crazy rare, that no one ever gets an chance at, where by which a representative becomes a great trophy. There have been times, where I talked with the Ph, and asked him, what have you been seeing, any animals in particular that are incredible, and if those animals present themselves, whether I originally planned to hunt them or not, I will try and harvest them. Now to answering your question, on a 10 day, 10 species hunt, I would think you would get 2-3 really nice trophies, with the other being representatives, unless you specifically arranged for trophies of a specific level, and you will be paying a considerable price, not normally found in a ten day hunting package, and truthfully there's no way for you to shoot 10 exceptional animals in 10 days, because that's not enough time to be selective. | |||
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i believe that if you want record book stuff, the only way is to plan for 1 animal and hunt exclusively for it. anything else is a god given extra | |||
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I have found that hard hunting will produce trophies that you earned. Mike  | |||
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"I would also say it depends on what you asked for, were promised and paid for". A promise is similar to a guarantee - which is not entirely possible in free range hunting...maybe on fenced game ranches? | |||
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I'm quite heartened. The answers to the poll by a large margin were 0, 0, and "the experience". To me that means that most of us here know that a safari is much more than a body count. We always talk about our safaris in terms of animals available and trophy quality but it is the whole experience of being in Africa, seeing the land, interacting with the animals and people that makes the safari. It's just an adventure from minute one onward. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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With no disrespect to 375 fanatic, the whole concept of this poll is what is wrong with high pressure, supermarket style, big convention, safari sales... If you aren't satisfied with a great stalk and a representaitive mature animal, may be you should look inside and see what you are missing. In my line of work, I am fortunate enough to turn down clients. I would like to think if I was a PH, I would turn down clients who inquired whether or not the trophies would make "book". Besides, SCI has lowered its book standards so much that almost any mature above average animal qualifies. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have found that the only "trophies" that mean anything to me are the memories of a great hunt. For me inches rarely add much to the memory of the hunt. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Beings I am the rat that started the other thread I am compelled to reply  !I have never before asked for or about any book species of any kind, anywhere, at anytime. As most here said its the experience. On our next hunt it just kind of came to my mind. I have my family and friends with me to enjoy their experience. And I might get a shot at a trophy animal or I might could create the opportunity. So it was interesting. And who knows with my legs, the politics, and economy, how many more times I might have the opportunity. If it happens Ok. But if I get skunked it is Ok. Wont be the first time. It wont affect our fun either way and I am sure we will get shots at great animals. I have been on the other side of this too. I owned an offshore boat and we chartered it too. In some of the tournaments you would not quite believe the requests. One time we fished HARD for four days in tough conditions for a group of the exec's of one of my best friends company. Everything we provided was the top cut of first class on this trip due to our relationship. We won the tournament and two categories - one with a record fish. The particular clients on-board were impossibe to please no matter what lengths we went to, or what we did, or how much luxury was provided, much less the fish hooked and landed. My full time captain and the mates on board did not even get a thank you or a cent in tips  . It is a good thing I met them at the dock. I did not go due to some surgery . I did pay the guys tips out of my pocket BTW. I did mention to him to fire these guys the first chance he got too  ! | |||
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What's a fair request? "Let's hunt our asses off and see what's out there and enjoy the thrill of the hunt. You give me your best efforts and if you see one that's a shooter, let me know and we'll see if we can't put him in the salt, OK?" That, sir, is a fair request in my book. Which happens to be mostly the only one I care about... ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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A quality experience can be difficult to define. Work hard, beat the bush, and when your PH says "That's a good one, shoot him...". You do, cleanly. I would hope on my future trips I can say "The PH never NEEDED to fire his rifle.". Mature males... You guys have seen mine from two trips. I walked my a-- off for them, and the PH did not have to kill them for me. That alone, makes it a great hunting experience. Rich | |||
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Should I ever hunt in Africa I wouldn't really care what size the trophy is. I'd be just happy to be there. I have a water buff head in my shed that I took in the NT hunting with mates and I've never even ran a tape over its horns. I think its pretty big and thats all I need to know. ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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