quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
I hunted with Zambeze Delta Safaris in coutada 11 in August and September of last year.

I saw more Sable the first morning than I saw in 28 total days hunting Sable in “good” Sable areas in Zimbabwe. Historically, Sable were bigger in Zim than Mozambique, especially Northwestern Zim around Hwange park (Matetsi areas), but given the enormous poaching pressure and unsustainable offtake as the Zim opperators struggle to make ends meet, I would wager that the average size Sable in Coutada 11 is now bigger than any area in Zimbabwe.

Buffalo are in the 10s of thousands and if you’re willing to hunt in the swamps, it takes one day to get your buff.

Animals that are in the thousands and will be seen many times a day in this area are Buffalo (swamps), Sable, Nyala, Waterbuck, Reedbuck, Oribi, Warthog, Red Duiker, Suni, Lichtenstein Hartebeest.

If you want Buffalo and Sable, go to Coutada 11, it will save you a lot of time and money in the long run.

June and July may be tough, I would talk to the ZDS guys and get their opinion. The best hunting usually starts in mid August, but there are so many Sable and Buffalo I bet it would be doable.

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
Yeah, unfortunately it has changed a lot since then. I booked “good” Sable areas twice and in the two years from booking to arrival (you had to book well ahead to get good areas and dates), both areas went from good Sable areas to virtually no Sable left. This was 2010 and 2013.

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
When I was looking for Sable hunts, I had more than 1 very well known PH and Agent tell me “I don’t even think they have Sable in Mozambique.”

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
When I was looking for Sable hunts, I had more than 1 very well known PH and Agent tell me “I don’t even think they have Sable in Mozambique.”

I’m sure all the members here, including myself, would like to know who made this asinine claim.

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
When I was looking for Sable hunts, I had more than 1 very well known PH and Agent tell me “I don’t even think they have Sable in Mozambique.”

I’m sure all the members here, including myself, would like to know who made this asinine claim.

I don’t think it would be appropriate or productive in any way to mention those names. The point is that there are true professionals and experts in some areas or countries, and we (as hunting tourists) often assign them expertise beyond what they are truly experts in. Some of them are absolutely experts in many countries, but not all of them are. We all have to be aware of this and filter advice accordingly.

quote:

Originally posted by Gale Johnson:
I would think you could get it done in Mozambique that early but later would most likely be better. I spent 15 days in Coutada 9 last September and I guarantee there are Sable. Our group took two great Sable, the place is absolutely full of plains game. The downside of going that early will be lots of thick brush, so you may not see near as much wildlife, but you already know that. The Niassa also has good Sable and excellent Buffalo I believe but never been there so I cant comment. PM me if you want to talk more about C9.

quote:

I hunted with Zambeze Delta Safaris in coutada 11 in August and September of last year.I saw more Sable the first morning than I saw in 28 total days hunting Sable in “good” Sable areas in Zimbabwe. Historically, Sable were bigger in Zim than Mozambique, especially Northwestern Zim around Hwange park (Matetsi areas), but given the enormous poaching pressure and unsustainable offtake as the Zim opperators struggle to make ends meet, I would wager that the average size Sable in Coutada 11 is now bigger than any area in Zimbabwe.Buffalo are in the 10s of thousands and if you’re willing to hunt in the swamps, it takes one day to get your buff.Animals that are in the thousands and will be seen many times a day in this area are Buffalo (swamps), Sable, Nyala, Waterbuck, Reedbuck, Oribi, Warthog, Red Duiker, Suni, Lichtenstein Hartebeest.If you want Buffalo and Sable, go to Coutada 11, it will save you a lot of time and money in the long run.June and July may be tough, I would talk to the ZDS guys and get their opinion. The best hunting usually starts in mid August, but there are so many Sable and Buffalo I bet it would be doable.

quote:

Thanks to everyone for the posts and pm's.Poyntman , I agree with you that "I am all over the place". I am receiving many conflicting replies about hunting Mozambique early season by some of the most well known african PH's , and booking agents. If it was a Alaska Yukon moose hunt or a elk hunt, it would be no problem.Zimbabwe , getting mixed reviews about some of the smaller areas in the SAVE, which I thought would be a pretty solid hunt .Zambia is pretty much booked up for buffalo, and a Sable hunt by itself is pretty pricey

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:
I hunted in northern Mozambique in 2015 and 16. The first trip I saw a monster Sable, but couldn't get a shot so I came back the second year.

I was the first hunter of the year on the second trip, and none of the grass had burnt so it was almost impossible to see game.

I was very happy with this 41" Roosevelt Sable bull that we got on the last day of my scheduled hunt.


Unfortunately my outfitter no longer has that concession.

Like others have posted, Mozambique is VERY EXPENSIVE to get trophies out.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
...Very nice Sable. How is this determined as Roosevelt?

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
...Very nice Sable. How is this determined as Roosevelt?

The word of my Outfitter, Simon Leach.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
...Very nice Sable. How is this determined as Roosevelt?

The word of my Outfitter, Simon Leach.

A very good one and well done.

Looks very similar to our Zambian Sable.



Cheers

quote:

bigger than

quote:

Very nice Sable. How is this determined as Roosevelt?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


Looks very similar to our Zambian Sable.



Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Very nice Sable. How is this determined as Roosevelt?

A touchy subject as Roosevelt are reported to reside only in the Selous and buffer areas immediately adjacent.

There has been some talk about a limited presence of the Roosevelt Sable in the northernmost part of Mozambique but I would be somewhat skeptical as they are typically gregarious animals and very unlikely to break boundary especially when it comes to crossing the Ruvuma River.

I did read an article somewhere that any Roosevelt Sable claim from Mozambique had to be confirmed by DNA testing and to be quite honest, the one in the photo has all the makings of the East African or Common Sable.

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Very nice Sable. How is this determined as Roosevelt?

A touchy subject as Roosevelt are reported to reside only in the Selous and buffer areas immediately adjacent.

There has been some talk about a limited presence of the Roosevelt Sable in the northernmost part of Mozambique but I would be somewhat skeptical as they are typically gregarious animals and very unlikely to break boundary especially when it comes to crossing the Ruvuma River.

I did read an article somewhere that any Roosevelt Sable claim from Mozambique had to be confirmed by DNA testing and to be quite honest, the one in the photo has all the makings of the East African or Common Sable.

Yes, when I look at my South African Sable and my northern Mozambique Sable, they look pretty much the same:


When I booked my South African hunt it was advertised as a Common Sable, my Mozambique hunt was advertised as a Roosevelt Sable. Simon Leach, my Moz Outfitter and PH went to great lengths explaining that the sable on his 690,000 acre concession in northern Mozambique were of the Roosevelt sub-species.

Taxonomists have long been known to be either a lumper (where all animals with only minute differences are lumped into one species) or a splitter (where animals with minute differences are split into a variety of sub-species).

I have several books on animals of Africa, and they only show animal distribution maps for Common Sable and Giant Sable. Since this discussion started, I have also done some research and I see where SCI is now requiring DNA testing to determine a Roosevelt Sable. Prior to DNA testing technology, how was it determined what sup-species an animal actually belonged to?

I am not entering any of my animals into the Roland Ward or SCI records books, or any of the SCI slams or circles or whatevers. My hunts in northern Mozambique were some of my best hunts for truly free range animals, and if my PH said these were Roosevelt Sables, that is good enough for me.

quote:

Absolutely and I was more interested in whether they had different facial markings, size etc.

quote:

Originally posted by 4WD:
Everyone I spoke to , including the Outfitters and PH's that have concessions and or hunt in Mozambique said the best hunting starts in August. A couple of outfitters were confident enough with their game populations to offer a early season Buff/Sable hunt in Mozambique. The lack of any burning , roads not being fully opened and the thick vegetation made other hunt options we had sound much better for this early season hunt. We now have a hunt booked and just waiting for the paperwork.
I have discovered that there are not a lot of Sable/Buffalo combination hunt options early season.
Thanks to everyone who commented and PM's.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Absolutely and I was more interested in whether they had different facial markings, size etc.

I have never noticed much of a difference in the facial markings between the Roosevelt and Common sables but more notably the size of body, Common being the bigger of the two.

Horn length and mass also falls in favour of the Common sable and in TZ (west) specimens have been known to reach 46" (and maybe slightly more).

The coat of our Roosevelt are hardly ever totally jet black as some flashes of brown are almost always present in the mane and their horn length very seldom exceeds 40".

I would opt to compare these two animals to the Impalas: East African & Southern.

quote:

The largest Sable I ever took was old and over 51 inches and he was brown.