Suppose you talk to a booking agent who spends a lot of time recommending various outfitters and countries for what you want. You finally select one that he recommends. the hunt is successful. You want to return and use the same Outfitter.

Should you book through the booking agent (who will add a fee, hidden or not) or book with the outfitter (depriving the booking agent of the fee)? Or what?

Indy,

I've done exactly this, and I booked through the agent. There was no skin off the outfitter/ph's back and it cost me no more. In the long run it was easier for all. Now, if I didn't feel as if the booking agent earned his keep or provided me (and possibly the outfitter) a service, I would have considered going directly through the outfitter/ph.

George

Indy,

The safari operators I work with consider a hunter that I have booked with them as my client. They would refer you to me as far as the business end of the deal goes regardless of what you and the operator had discussed. Just had exactly that happen a few days ago.

Mark

Hi Indy
The long and the short of it is you are the result of the booking agents marketing.

By booking directly you can put all future business betwen the operater and Outfit in Jeapardy. If you want the guy to do well book with the agent again so that he doesnt loose all future business.

I have some client friends that Ive met through booking agents and it always a challenge to try and explain why they cant come back directly.
Its just the right thing to do.

I generally book direct at this point. But have been in your very situation in the past. To the Ph's and outfitter's credit, there was no doubt that the next hunt would be through the same booking agent. That's just cricket. If someone proposes otherwise, I'd have doubts about their scruples.

I use the agent.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
Hi Indy
The long and the short of it is you are the result of the booking agents marketing.

By booking directly you can put all future business betwen the operater and Outfit in Jeapardy. If you want the guy to do well book with the agent again so that he doesnt loose all future business.

I have some client friends that Ive met through booking agents and it always a challenge to try and explain why they cant come back directly.
Its just the right thing to do.

There is no hard and fast rule that says the repeat client may not or should not book directly - what I would consider being a hard and fast rule instead is the honesty of the outfitter telling the client that he will be charged the commission that would have gone to the agent from where the original booking was made and for the outfitter to copy all relevant correspondence of the new deal with that agent......its called transparency (honesty)

quote:

There is no hard and fast rule that says the repeat client may not or should not book directly - what I would consider being a hard and fast rule instead is the honesty of the outfitter telling the client that he will be charged the commission that would have gone to the agent from where the original booking was made and for the outfitter to copy all relevant correspondence of the new deal with that agent......its called transparency (honesty)

+1 I have a good working relationship with my agent and We do just that.

BUT even though I do all the hunt prep etc via e-mail which he gets cc'd(copies of correspondance) all payments are made to the booking agent.

Just the way I do it - and By no means the only way or correct way, just my prefered way when dealing with my booking guys, when dealing with repeat hunters

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
........

I have some client friends that Ive met through booking agents and it always a challenge to try and explain why they cant come back directly.
Its just the right thing to do.

I have never had a client booked through a Booking Agent - but hope that will soon change. Be sure that I do intend following Dave's decent business manners! Well done Dave by setting this as an example for others hunting outfitters to follow.

In good hunting.

To me it is a question if you are really happy with the work the booking agent has done for you and you think that the agent has earned the money.

I went to SA last year on a PG hunt and even if I had a great time, I feel it would be even better if the agent had done a better job.
The agent forgot to pass on important information to the outfitter and also gave me wrong information about the temperatures in the area I was going to hunt.

Of course I should have checked all this directly with the outfitter, but I trusted the agent, so didn't.
I have learned from that.

This year I am also going on a PG hunt, but now I have booked directly with an outfitter(not the same as last year).

In many ways I feel that most of the agents are there mostly for the outfitters and not so much for us clients.
I will rather just deal directly with the outfitters from now on as I really don't see much of a point in using an agent.

Just a hypothetical. What if you see a great offer (cancellation hunt or late season special) posted here or on another forum by an outfitter you have used. Say it is a 25-30 percent discount off the normal rates. Do you go through a booking agent you used originally and say I want that special even though it was out in a public forum and happened to be someone you had hunted with previously or do you book direct? I'm not in the business but is everyone going to be happy in this situation? Seems the outfitter who is doing his own advertising to sell a discounted hunt is/might be a little miffed at having to pay a commission off already discounted rates. Maybe not, like I said I'm not in the business. Just curious.

Regards,

Don

Indy - A quality agent does NOT add a fee, to you the hunter/buyer! His fees are paid by the outfitter.

Secondly, its generally the responsibility of the outfitter to be "loyal" to his agent as it pertains to return clients, but not all of them are. And, assuming you were happy with the agent's job/the hunt, why would you not book with him again? Obviously it was his due-dilligence that helped arrange a good hunt for you in the first place.

Lastly, there's really a very simple way to look at it. All of us, regardless of our occupation, hope for and often times expect our customers to be loyal to us - especially if/when we are doing right by them. Why would booking agents be any different? Its certainly not mandatory, but if you want customers/business associates to be loyal to you - living by that motto in return is not a bad idea. JMO.

My experience with agents is -

1. If they truly provide a service, then return for business.

2. If an agent is "man enough" to tell you that he does not know much about a specific hunt or area, and tells you he does not know - use that agent, he is honest.

3. If you get a "whiff" of BS, run for the hills and guard your wallet.

If you have been on this forum for awhile, you will be able to discern good agents from not so good based on how they correspond here. Check references and see what you hear.

To me it is 100% the clients ie customers choice.

If the outfitter on subsequent bookings if made direct wants to kick some back to some agent, that's his business, not mine.

If an outfitter refused a direct booking and said the customer HAS to use an agent, well he'd have just lost the booking. Customers choice.

Most agents are little more than advertising agents on a commission of sales basis.

I despise the idea of being owned. I once met a nice Zim PH in a hunting camp run by a South African outfitter (Outfitter X) I was hunting with. I called the former a year or so later to discuss a buffalo hunt in Zim and he literally said "See if Outfitter X can help you" as if the products they were offering could be considered comparable. Fenced buffalo in RSA at high cost vs. unfenced buffalo in Zim at much lower cost?!? I never booked with the Zim outfitter and never even called him back because I felt like I was being treated as property by his "ethical code". Similarly, I find the idea of being married to a booking agent to be a bit distasteful. I have and will continue to book direct with any outfitter I please, publicly post the results of the hunt for all (including past agents) to see and then it becomes a matter to be settled between the outfitter and agent whether or not a commission is or should be forthcoming. It is not my job to mediate their business relationship.

As Aaron said, a true booking agent/hunting consultant doesn't add any fees to the cos of your hunt. Our pay day comes directly from the outfitter. If you were happy enough on round one, why wouldn't you be OK to go another round with the same guy that put you on a great hunt to begin with?

That being said, all of the outfitters that I work for will re-direct any and all of my past clients back to me if a client wants to rebook a hunt even if it is 10 years since that client last hunted with the outfitter.

IMO, if a booking agent adds his cost on top of the hunt, he isn't doing his job the right way.

quote:

Posted 17 February 2012 09:23 Hide Post
As Aaron said, a true booking agent/hunting consultant doesn't add any fees to the cos of your hunt. Our pay day comes directly from the outfitter. .............


IMO, if a booking agent adds his cost on top of the hunt, he isn't doing his job the right way.

1. Unfortunately that is not always the case - it has been known that some agents are not satisfied with the normal 15% commission and decide to hike the price of the hunt which may, more often than not, backfire at the expense of the outfitter whose otherwise reasonable deal has been blown out of the window.

2. Some clients feel they will benefit from a 15% discount if they by-pass the agent and book direct with the outfitter - which also does happen and the agent gets the short end of the stick - that agent is not going to be supplying many more clients to that outfitter either.

3. Like it or not a reputable hunting agent is there to safeguard the mutual interests of both parties from start to end and this is where the business etiquette comes into play.

I have booked one hunt thru an agent, the rest thru the outfitter/guide themselves. I don't feel that using an agent is actually neccessary when putting together a hunt in North America. If I ever get the where withall to attempt a hunt in Africa, I will find a reputable agent and work with that person.

Developing a rapport with a guide/outfitter is great, simply because both parties know what to expect due to having familiarity with each other.

Starting up a business relationship with someone in another country where therer are language differences needs to be viewed differently.

One other thing I have noticed from various aspects concerning booking hunts, people booking a hunt whether thru an agent or an outfitter/guide directly, really need to stay focused on the whole process and make sure they understand fully what they are getting in to. As has been brought out here on the pages of AR, many folks get so excited over the process that they stop really listening to what they are being told, whether it is an agent or guide/outfitter talking to them, it does not really matter.

IMO, most, if probably not all of the "Bad" hunts that take place, happen because of poor communication and listening practices on the part of the people involved on both sides.

quote:

A quality agent does NOT add a fee, to you the hunter/buyer! His fees are paid by the outfitter.

Which in turn are payed by the hunter. This is a sales pitch in my book. The hunter pays the outfitters fees and the booking agents.

I went on an elk hunt in Utah a while back. I saw the hunt advertised on a booking agents website. I found the same hunt on another forum being listed by the rancher. The booking agent wanted $6500. I got the hunt direct from the rancher for $5000. So had I booked through the agent I would have paid his fees.

hunting is al about relationships and relationships are build on honesty and trust. if honesty or trust is sacrificed the relationship is sacrificed and names are dragged through the mud.

don't do to others that you don't want to be done to you

if a client bookes directly with me i will still pass on the agents commission

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

A quality agent does NOT add a fee, to you the hunter/buyer! His fees are paid by the outfitter.

Which in turn are payed by the hunter. This is a sales pitch in my book. The hunter pays the outfitters fees and the booking agents.

I went on an elk hunt in Utah a while back. I saw the hunt advertised on a booking agents website. I found the same hunt on another forum being listed by the rancher. The booking agent wanted $6500. I got the hunt direct from the rancher for $5000. So had I booked through the agent I would have paid his fees.

Booking directly with a rancher can be fraught with problems... some ranchers think they can do the same work as the guide/outfitter and many cannot/will not.

Generally not a good situation for the outfitter if the rancher is selling hunts for less anyhow.. More likely to happen with high-fence hunting.

Was that I high-fence hunt you booked in Utah??

quote:

Originally posted by 375 fanatic:
hunting is al about relationships and relationships are build on honesty and trust. if honesty or trust is sacrificed the relationship is sacrificed ...if a client bookes directly with me i will still pass on the agents commission

I agree with you. While it may seem an odd set-up, if the arrangement is that the outfitter will always and forever pay a commission to the agent that sends a client to him (even decades before) then so be it. I just don't think it is my responsibility to ensure that arrangement by adding an extra party to the booking process by calling the agent before calling the guy I know and who is actually going to be doing the work.

quote:

Generally not a good situation for the outfitter if the rancher is selling hunts for less anyhow.. More likely to happen with high-fence hunting.

Was that I high-fence hunt you booked in Utah??

No it was not high fenced. It was a hunt guided by the rancher and his sons. I couldn't have asked for a better hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

A quality agent does NOT add a fee, to you the hunter/buyer! His fees are paid by the outfitter.

Which in turn are payed by the hunter. This is a sales pitch in my book. The hunter pays the outfitters fees and the booking agents.

........................

The hunting outfitter needs to advertise in order to get new clients. He has a whole number of choices about how to advertise, one of which is to use a Booking Agent. Attending shows and conventions are a few alternative ways of advertising his hunting outfitting services. IMHO you should not look at the paying the Booking Agent situation as if it is your money that the hunting outfitter pays to the Booking Agent, but that is part of his hunting outfitting advertising budget that gets spent on compensation for successful advertising by the Booking Agent actually getting you as a client.

In good hunting.

I would book again through the agent.

They give you someone to bug on Friday afternoons, when work is slow. (Not like I would call Mark) Plus they typically have "been there, done that" and have the experience.