It was noted on a prior thread, someone pulling the same trigger twice on a double rifle.
Practicing with a double rifle is expensive and time consuming if you reload.
I can think of no better reason to "justify" a nice SXS shotgun to practice with! You can buy shotgun shells for 25 cents each rather than +$5 each for NE rounds and have fun shooting sporting clays or birds and all the time getting accustomed to the dynamics of a double gun and two triggers.
It does not cost a fortune; You can find a good AYA #2 for $3K and have a blast.
When it comes time to uncase the double rifle you may feel right at home.
Shoot some birds along the way!

EZ

I think you're right. Familiarity with a double shotgun with two triggers must help when it comes to shooting double rifles. At least it seemed that way to me when I recently acquired my first double rifle. I have many years of experience with double shotguns so I was not at all baffled by the two triggers on my Merkle. CZ offers a good shotgun for such practice at 6 or 7 hundred dollars.

quote:

Originally posted by R. G. Howard:
I think you're right. Familiarity with a double shotgun with two triggers must help when it comes to shooting double rifles. At least it seemed that way to me when I recently acquired my first double rifle. I have many years of experience with double shotguns so I was not at all baffled by the two triggers on my Merkle. CZ offers a good shotgun for such practice at 6 or 7 hundred dollars.

Plus the instinctive shooting practice one gets with a shotgun on clays is valuable in quick follow-ups or on charging game.

I have shot a double-trigged SXS shotgun since I was a kid.

Here's a link to a previous thread that has good info and recommendations from some of the double rifle experts on the forum (self NOT included!):

practicing with your new double rifle

A shotgun would help with the two triggers, but it isn't going to help you be familiar with your rifle. Work on some cheap practice loads and the cost of practice will drop significantly. I have 350 grain Horandy's that I worked up a reduced load for my 500/450. It makes for great and affordable plinking. I probably have $1 per shot in those loads. Also get yourself a pair of $50ish snap caps and dry fire the thing. You can still handle the rifle and work on using both triggers for a one time reasonable fee.

Brett

I like practicing with my SXS .410. The only difference I found when switching over to my .470 was the recoil . I also practice loading and shooting quickly with snap caps.

Who makes an inexpensive SxS shotgun set up for a lefty?

I take one of my SXS 20ga with me each time I take the 470 out to practice.. I use it strictly for muscle memory on the triggerwork. Cheap and effective.
Also put in plenty of time on the sticks in the living room killing whitewing doves through the window in the front yard with snap caps!

Just about any of them with no cast in the stock. There should be no difference for a left or right hander. Beauty of a nice SXS or over / under. For a game gun, once you get accustomed to a SXS or O/U you will leave your pumps and auto's in the safe with the exception of perhaps water foul hunting.

Check CZ for an inexpensive option. You might find a old Stevens 311; It should have a pistol grip.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Who makes an inexpensive SxS shotgun set up for a lefty?

quote:

I like practicing with my SXS .410.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Who makes an inexpensive SxS shotgun set up for a lefty?

EXACTLY! I think EZ may be referring to my post a little while ago.

The triggers on my 470 were set for a Right hand shooter. Im a lefty.

I finally got the triggers changed to lefty. This has made a big difference in the comfort and reach for the front trigger, thus reducing the chance of a double onto the back trigger upon recoil.

There is little chance a shotgun double trigger setup will be the same spacing and such of a double anyway. DR's vary from brand to brand too.

I have shot a lot of different guns and the DR was a totally different story for me, which is why i asked for help on the forum...

IMO the only way to get used to it is to shoot that particular gun, with the ammo you plan on hunting with. The other practice with snap caps and small calibers helps with the flinch too.

That is what helped me and and i do not have any problems since making the changes to the triggers and adjusting grip and such. All of this advice i received on this forum....

This thread reminds me of how much time has passed since I routinely shot doubles with two triggers. Some years ago in this forum I had a medical doctor explain to me that the easy facility of the trigger finger sliding back to the second trigger almost without any conscious thought (as I had explained to him was how I used two triggers) was " muscle reflex memory". (as I recall he said) It sets up a pattern in the brain and we then tend to do it successfully over and over again. I can appreciate the use of a "scattergun" to acquire the "memory" - but I would guess that eventually one must learn to become accustomed to the "push" of a big bore double and learn the same "reflex memory" differently. Just my thoughts.

I hasten to add to my last post that I was talking about shooting "scattergun" doubles with two triggers -because I certainly never had any experience with big bore doubles before I got to Africa. (The only big bore double I ever shot was about 10 rounds with my PH's double (470 NE)in pure target practice -because I expressed a curiosity about the 470 - I loved it. It had a "push" -like the 375 -just a little more!)

Shoot the back trigger first. It most clearly resembles the single trigger on your bolt gun. Because of that, you can make a better shot with your back trigger. And if you really make a good shot with the back trigger you'll have no need for the front trigger.

Doing it the other way immediately establishes the wrong shooter mindset. That is, "I'm not going to be successful with my first shot so I better hurriedly pull the back trigger because the more lead I drill into the animal the better off I'll be." That's not the way to shoot a double rifle.

Proper mindset: Back trigger first. Then if the animal presents me a second shot I advance my trigger finger forward to engage the front trigger. Many times the animal doesn't even offer an immediate second shot, so why touch off the trigger that is the more difficult of the two. Engage the trigger that allows you to execute the best FIRST shot. And that is the back trigger. If the animal runs off after the first shot from the back trigger, reload and then shoot the back trigger first again when you're presented a followup shot.

It's just as easy to train your finger to go BACK FRONT. BACK FRONT BACK FRONT BACK FRONT. You'll never accidentally touch off both triggers simultaneously this way either. You'll have more well placed first shots and burn up less ammo on safari as well..

moja

i usually appriciate your writings and advice a lot but this is so far from proper practise with a double that i just have to reply.

quote:

Shoot the back trigger first. It most clearly resembles the single trigger on your bolt gun. Because of that, you can make a better shot with your back trigger. And if you really make a good shot with the back trigger you'll have no need for the front trigger.

dont shoot the back trigger first, the double rifle is made for saving your behind, when the chips are down, by being fast and having a second shot to your disposal by a mere movement of your trigger finger, by teaching yourself the wrong motor skills, those will also come into play when you really need them.
the distance from trigger guard to front trigger is rather large about twice the distance between front and rear trigger, the reason for this, is to give your the abbility to bring the gun into battery quick and in a fluid motion, making the first shot count especially on moving game.
If your front trigger is to heavy get it reworked.
If you really make the first shot count, you dont need a double or a bolt, we can all go hunting with singles

quote:

Doing it the other way immediately establishes the wrong shooter mindset. That is, "I'm not going to be successful with my first shot so I better hurriedly pull the back trigger because the more lead I drill into the animal the better off I'll be." That's not the way to shoot a double rifle.

agree, but this is not the way to shoot any rifle.

quote:

Proper mindset: Back trigger first. Then if the animal presents me a second shot I advance my trigger finger forward to engage the front trigger. Many times the animal doesn't even offer an immediate second shot, so why touch off the trigger that is the more difficult of the two. Engage the trigger that allows you to execute the best FIRST shot. And that is the back trigger. If the animal runs off after the first shot from the back trigger, reload and then shoot the back trigger first again when you're presented a followup shot.

Proper mindset: front trigger first, then if the animal charges me from the 20 yeard that i actually snuck into, i wont fumble my trigger finger out of the trigger guard and move it forward but just move it back about 1/2" and use the second barrel. If that were not enough reload bring gun into battery and use the front trigger first, by this time the animal is so close that you dont even notice trigger pull, and your finger moves with the recoil so second shot is ready when the mussel is in contact with the animal

quote:

It's just as easy to train your finger to go BACK FRONT. BACK FRONT BACK FRONT BACK FRONT. You'll never accidentally touch off both triggers simultaneously this way either. You'll have more well placed first shots and burn up less ammo on safari as well..

not quite right, the movement of the gun under recoil facillitates the rearward movement of the trigger finger which is why so many untrained shooters gets the accidental letoff from the second barrel, please remember that this is proberly not your 223 BR gun with a hair trigger, you dont use the first pad of your trigger finger but the first joint of same.
the natural bend of the trigger finger makes sure that it wont come off and slap the rear trigger finger causing the second barrel to ignite.

By learning to use your tools correctly, you can get the full use of them and that will ultimatly save you both ammo and your behind in a tight spot.

best regards

Peter
Taksdale gun & rifle

Bwana Moja,
You speak the truth,I allways practice with my twin trigger shotties before a double rifle hunt
rear trigger front trigger,rear trigger front trigger.It makes NO DIFFERENCE to speed with a little practice.I am a shithouse shotgun shot but using said technique I can still hit the front half of a clay I have shot the back end off with the follow through swing.

Peter Peter Peter!
No no no. You have it wrong my friend. I'm guessing the reason you disagree with me, is because you've never tried my method. Go give it a try today at your local range there in Denmark. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

We're talking about the movement of your trigger finger...(depending on the width of your trigger guard and the space between your triggers)...anywhere from 1/3" to 3/4". That's not alot of distance to train your muscle memory and motor skills of the most coordinated bone conglomerate of one's body, the HAND. It's like moving from one computer key to another on your keyboard.

This is easy lifting Peter....BACK FRONT BACK FRONT...etc. Despite the fact that it's less than a matter of an inch, it could be the most important finger movement you make on a safari. My method might even save your life.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
Peter Peter Peter!
No no no. You have it wrong my friend. I'm guessing the reason you disagree with me, is because you've never tried my method. Go give it a try today at your local range there in Denmark. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

We're talking about the movement of your trigger finger...(depending on the width of your trigger guard and the space between your triggers)...anywhere from 1/3" to 3/4". That's not alot of distance to train your muscle memory and motor skills of the most coordinated bone conglomerate of one's body, the HAND. It's like moving from one computer key to another on your keyboard.

This is easy lifting Peter....BACK FRONT BACK FRONT...etc. Despite the fact that it's less than a matter of an inch, it could be the most important finger movement you make on a safari. My method might even save your life.

And how many times have you remembered that in a charge?

practice loads for my 458Lott cost around $.75 each. I bought 500 .458 Remington Jacketed Soft Points and 2 # of powder, loaded to heavy 45-70 levels it's easy on the shoulder and wallet.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
Peter Peter Peter!
No no no. You have it wrong my friend. I'm guessing the reason you disagree with me, is because you've never tried my method. Go give it a try today at your local range there in Denmark. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

We're talking about the movement of your trigger finger...(depending on the width of your trigger guard and the space between your triggers)...anywhere from 1/3" to 3/4". That's not alot of distance to train your muscle memory and motor skills of the most coordinated bone conglomerate of one's body, the HAND. It's like moving from one computer key to another on your keyboard.

This is easy lifting Peter....BACK FRONT BACK FRONT...etc. Despite the fact that it's less than a matter of an inch, it could be the most important finger movement you make on a safari. My method might even save your life.

And how many times have you remembered that in a charge?

That is why shooting a doubled trigger SXS shotgun is useful. If you shoot a lot with it...it will be habit to change triggers just like quick follow-up on a bird.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
Peter Peter Peter!
No no no. You have it wrong my friend. I'm guessing the reason you disagree with me, is because you've never tried my method. Go give it a try today at your local range there in Denmark. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

We're talking about the movement of your trigger finger...(depending on the width of your trigger guard and the space between your triggers)...anywhere from 1/3" to 3/4". That's not alot of distance to train your muscle memory and motor skills of the most coordinated bone conglomerate of one's body, the HAND. It's like moving from one computer key to another on your keyboard.

This is easy lifting Peter....BACK FRONT BACK FRONT...etc. Despite the fact that it's less than a matter of an inch, it could be the most important finger movement you make on a safari. My method might even save your life.

Marc

i have tried your method, i tried it when i first heard that there were people out there, who desided to work the guns differently than it had been done for the last hundred years. and honestly it didnt work for me at all, as soon as i get to heavy loads in a 12 bore or above i lose significant time as opposed to doing it right

I dont need to go to my local range as i have one on my land, it is right outside my workshop where i build double rifles for my clients up to and including 600NE, those guns are made as they have been made for the last 130 years SxS and setup for front trigger first

so i stand by my statment:
By learning to use your tools correctly, you can get the full use of them and that will ultimatly save you both ammo and your behind in a tight spot.

if i make it to the conventions in january perhaps we can get together and i will instruct you in how to shoot the big bores the right way without getting punished by them.

best regards

Peter als Nerving
(gunmaker)
Taksdale Gun & Rifle
Denmark

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
Peter Peter Peter!
No no no. You have it wrong my friend. I'm guessing the reason you disagree with me, is because you've never tried my method. Go give it a try today at your local range there in Denmark. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

We're talking about the movement of your trigger finger...(depending on the width of your trigger guard and the space between your triggers)...anywhere from 1/3" to 3/4". That's not alot of distance to train your muscle memory and motor skills of the most coordinated bone conglomerate of one's body, the HAND. It's like moving from one computer key to another on your keyboard.

This is easy lifting Peter....BACK FRONT BACK FRONT...etc. Despite the fact that it's less than a matter of an inch, it could be the most important finger movement you make on a safari. My method might even save your life.

And how many times have you remembered that in a charge?

That is why shooting a doubled trigger SXS shotgun is useful. If you shoot a lot with it...it will be habit to change triggers just like quick follow-up on a bird.

I don't care if you shoot a shotgun til the barrels fall off, it is what happens when a buff or ele is about to step on you that counts. And until you are in that situation and find out it is just all talk.

OK Peter. That's a deal. I know of a range in Reno and Dallas. We can step outside and grab somebody's double off the racks and go have some fun blasting. It might be a little cold but with you being in Denmark and me in Chicago, I think we'll both be OK.

I know you know what you're talking about and I know your way is the way doubles have been shot for decades, but I think the old timers were archaic. It's time to step into the 2-thousands and show off what double rifles can really do for a hunter.

WILL you asked me about a charge. Thankfully I don't know too much about that. I've never had an animal charge me after first being struck with the bullet discharged from the left barrel, which just so happens to be the rear trigger on the working mans Rigby .470 NE. I'm not sure I mentioned it, but that would be the rear trigger first.

I would like to buy your book Bill. I will get a check in the mail once I get back from New York. My son's baseball career seems to have gotten the best of me this summer even causing me to cancel out of a safari. I've become real familiar with Cooperstown, NY. This is junior's third trip there this summer. He got invited to play for a team vying for the 12-year-old national championship. SO I do enjoy reading all the safari books I can in between games. Just finished Richard Harland's The Hunting Imperative. Man did he hunt alot of elephants! Moving on to Geoff Brooms now. The characters look kinda tiny and I think I'll have to get a fresh pair of cheaters to get into it.

But nevertheless guys I'm enjoying the conversation. I know my method goes against the grain of tradition, but it sure works and I can't change back now.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
OK Peter. That's a deal. I know of a range in Reno and Dallas. We can step outside and grab somebody's double off the racks and go have some fun blasting. It might be a little cold but with you being in Denmark and me in Chicago, I think we'll both be OK.

I know you know what you're talking about and I know your way is the way doubles have been shot for decades, but I think the old timers were archaic. It's time to step into the 2-thousands and show off what double rifles can really do for a hunter.

I know my method goes against the grain of tradition, but it sure works and I can't change back now.

marc

good, if i can make it we will go have some doubel fun, i like change as much as the next guy (just ask my EX-wife ) but sometimes things actually were done, because the other ways were tried and found less effective, now if i actually should make a double that were done for the rear trigger first i would change the distance between triggers so there would be ampel room to engage the rear trigger first under any circumstances.

dont worry about us lending a double at DSC or SCI, if i can make it i will bring quite a few of my own new line to show off, including the fully rifled 12 bore double

untill then

best

peter

WE TRAIN shooters mostly with sxs shotguns shooting doves 1000 shells a day and fast reloads ,then we began to kill hogs with the rifle .After a week shooters are really experts.