Dear friends,
I just saw a Brno 21 for sale, calibre 8x60S. I got an idea of bying it and change the calibre into someting a little more flat-shooting, to bring to Africa for plains game. Perhaps an 8x64S?. I am a bit thrilled by the idea of an 8x68S, but I presume it will not fit the action.

A dream calibre would be a 300 H&H, but I have been told that a CG47 would be better as a starting point for that.

Iny input?

Regards,
Martin

P.S.
When I wrote "regards" I first spelled it "retards", I wonder if that was some sort of Freduian slip?

Martin



I would use the small ring action for a less powerfull cartridge. 7X57 would be nice, but you already got the light version of it, the 7-08



If you are looking for 8X68S then a ZG-47 is more suitable.



How about a 9,3X64 on Zg-47



Cheers

/ JOHAN

Johan, don't you need such a rifle? You find it at JG:s shop for SEK 1 950.00. For your information, that is about $ 255.00...

I guess I should look for a CG-47 and have it chambered in 300 H&H...

Regards,
Martin

I had the original barrel of my 8x57 with a shot out barrel copied and used the existing banded rear, banded sling swivel, and banded front sight that comes on the Brnos, to build about the slickest, lightest, 9.3x62 that you can imagine..Dennis Olson is doing the work at a cost of about $500. and that's pretty reasonable...It looks 100% original except for the scratching on the barrel, which I may have copied...but I won't pass it off as original except to provoke some Brno collector friends of mine, one of which does have an original in that caliber, the first one I have ever seen or heard off..I saw another one time but the barrel was an even 25 inches and that is suspect..My barrel BTW is 26 inces even....

Thanks Ray, a 9.3x62 in that action is food for thought!

I can find a Husky built on a FN 98 action in 9.3x62 for almost no money here as well, but that Brno 21 was delightful...

Regards,
Martin

Marterius

I know about this already. I got three ZG 47 and a fourth is on the way.

Why not a 8x68S ? or is it not tommy enough

Cheers
/ JOHAN

I don't think a belted case is a good idea on a small ring action, although I have seem them around from time to time.

I would go for the 8X68S it is superior to the 300 H&H mag if you can handle the recoil. I know you can you shot my .500 Jeffery
8x68s is a great killer 197grn at 950 m/sec
I know you can fit it in a m98 but I do not know about the Brno 21 ??
The cartridge is not so populat due to the fact that it is German and from the 2nd WW (1943 I think)

Cheers,

Andr�

I picked up a nice HQ 98 in 9.3x62 from a Swedish dealer just last week -a friend imports used guns from Sweden- and in time it�ll become a 300 H&H. Not this year though as the .416 put me back quite a bit.

The 9.3 is nice as I have a .375 I don�t see the need for it.

cewe

Why not a 8X68S ?

Cheers,

Andr�

An option, though not high on my list, would be an 8mm-06. Popular in the USA after WWII with surplus Mausers everywhere and plenty of '06 brass. you might be the only person in Sweden with one!

.

ALF,

As I said,"An option, though not high on my list..."

My own thoughts are that there is not anything wrong with an 8x60, if it shoots. It is a nice round.

The 8x68 is a magnificent round, I have one on order to add to the 8x60 and 8x65R that I already have.

The 8X68s is king of 8mm mauser rifles.
It is the one thing that the nazi engineers made that we still enjoy today And for that we thank them

Cheers,

Andr�

Hi Martin! Why change it at all? 8x60S is a very good round: I left my Brno 21 in that cal, and it drives the 250 grs Woodleigh at 730 m/s (2394 fps) which equals the old 318 WR, and 200 grs bullets at 815 m/s (2670 fps) which would make it flat enough, methinks. There is probably still some velocity to gain in those loads with Vihtavuori N550.

If you want a 300 H&H, as I do myself, my advice is to make it from a Mauser 98; you get them for nothing over there.

Boha

Hello J,

I pretty much saw the 8x68S a couple of weeks ago and discussed the option with boha (as we all know there are two major gun experts in Finland: boha and Sam Bj�rkholm). In the end the 300H&H is an option because most of the calibers we use the most are classical English cal�s. This again has it�s roots in our mostly having read safari litt written by Brits and Americans! Etc...

The 8x68S looks good though...but the H&H gives me the feeling of something classic.

How�s that for a highly subjective opinion?

cewe

300 H&Hm Mag = V 6
8x68s = V 8

Cheers,

Andr�

JD,

OK here�s your chance: Convince me why a 8x68S is the gun I need. Give it your best and remember the 300H&H is supposed to fill a void between the 30-06 and the .375H&H...

Your turn!

cewe

What void? There�s probably a void between 30-06 and 30-06 Ackley Improved...


I quote Finn Aagaard; I want the rifle because it pleases my heart, which, after all, is the best reason of them all.

But then, Andr�, by the way, the V6 spinns nice and balanced like, while the V8 grumbles and turns like an upset stomach..

Boha

cewe



The 8X68s will do everything the 300 H&H mag and 300 win mag does just better.

Faster heavier bullet larger diameter

Just take a look at the hard numbers. It is in German but the numbers are easy to undestand.

http://www.lycos.de/inc/link/treffer.html?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fpopeng.lycos.de%2Fredirect%2F10100085055%2F0%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fhome.snafu.de%2Fl.moeller%2F8x68S.html

Furthermore it has no belt like 300 H&H and winni = more in the mag.

And a German calibre for a German m98 action is a joy

But the price is recoil. If the rifle is designed right with weigh and balance then it should not be a problem.





8x68S & 6,5x65 RWS



Cheers,



Andr�

Gentlemen

G�rtel sind �berfl��ig



Besides the 8X68S has a wider selection of factory loads than the 300 H&H. http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/



8mm can shoot heavier bullets than the 300 and has a slightly larger diameter. The 8X68s is a fine caliber and If you read Hatari Times over the years it a fairly popular caliber among European hunters in Africa.



Today, you don't want own a 300H&H! The winding POMS rugby team hit the judder-bar as it crashed to a 36-3 defeat at the hands of the All Blacks



Cheers

/ JOHAN

Hello J,

That bullet sure does move! Recoil must be interesting... But I�m still not convinced: The 300 H&H will cover my needs with less recoil and pretty much the same trajectory. For DG I have the .416 and the .375...boha has a point in not having a gun because you need it but because your heart longs for it.

Thanks for the info though, appreciate it.

cewe

What a lot of great input! Sorry for not having awnsered before, but I have been away on a business-trip for a couple of days.

To sum my own feelings up, I am with cewe on this one, a 300 H&H would be more classic. The Finn Aagaard quotation I take to my heart.

I must admint that the recoil of the 8x68 made me wonder if the extra power is worth the kick. I guess it would be similar to a 338 Win Mag?

I will se if I go for that Brno 21. If not, it would not be too difficult to find a Husqvarna instad, once I decided what to do with it!

Regards,
Martin

The M21 Brno magazine will not accomodate the 300H&H or the 8x68. It is way too short.

Marterius



My Brno's ZG-47 has a magazine lenght of 88,5-89 mm- the 8X68S will fit. In VihtaVouri reloading manual the OAL lenght for the 8X68S cartridges are 86-86,5 mm



In the same manual has the pom caliber 300 H&H an cartridge OAL of 90-91,2mm



Cheers



/ JOHAN

The magazine of the ZG-47 is longer than the M21. The 8x68 will not fit a standard 98 Mauser magazine- it is far too long.

My 98 magazine is 84,6mm No 8X68s on that

I will get a VZ-24 or a 1909 Argentine Mauser if that is big enough ?

Johan do you know ? Anyone ?



Cheers,



Andr�

Try putting a loaded 8x68 round in a STANDARD length Mauser magazine. It will not fit.

I know I just tried What now
Do youmknow if the VZ24 or 1909 is longer ?

Cheers,

Andr�

JefferyDenmark

I doubt that the argentine is much longer than the standard mauser, not sure of the vz-24.

I will send you a mail shortly

Cheers
/ JOHAN

I don't think any military 98 magazines are long enough for the 300H&H or the 8x68. Most folks use an aftermarket magazine/trigger guard like the Blackburn, Sunny Hill, or Prechtl. You will also have to open the ramp, bolt stop and rails on a standard action to accomodate the 8x68.

Then I regard it as settled... Thanks gentlemen.

Andr�, it was a nice thought and a good effort, putting a 8x68 in a standard Mauser, I give you credit for that!

I just have to continue looking for something like a Winchester pre 64 in 300 H&H, but there can't be many of them over here.

Regards,
Martin

Marterius

Speaking of the trolls, I know one that might be out soon. The owner shall swap the rifle for a new darling.

Information can be obtained by phone

You can open the box in a Brno 21 or 22 or any Mauser to take the 300 H&H, but is capacity is limited to two down as a rule...Thats not the problem we have here....

The problem is your putting a magnum cartridge in a small action, something I personally don't approve of..thus the reason I suggested a 9.3x62 or something on a 06 type case.

JOHAN,
Regarding those three ZG 47 rifles you have: I will probably take a day birdwatching at Getter�n one day or another now, and hence will be in Varberg. If you by any chance are at home, I should love to have a good look at one of the ZG47-actions and some advice concerning what to look for in a second hand ZG 47. Of course it should be nice if you also wanted to bring you binos and join me for som spotting...

Regards,
Martin

Martin

Tell me when you are going and maybe I can meet up.