You really know how to hurt a fat, old man don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

P.S. I am one of the few that still likes Ray. That will bring on some personal attacks too!!

Just curious - why don't you book your hunts through him?

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
Pete,

Maybe. It is just that since 458Win books his hunts thru Ray Atkinson and Ray claims to be a good friend of Seyfrieds I don't see the difficulty getting hold of him.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Ray Atkinson does book a hunt for me once in a while and I guess I should give Ray a call as I also consider him a friend, but I have talked to a number of other folks who claim to be friends of Ross and they have no more information than all the folks here who seem to think that asking about someone's credentials (that they toss around in public) is some sort of attack or subversive plot. I am simply curious as to where and when Ross worked in Africa and who he worked for. I would think all of his fans would like to know that. Phil Shoemaker

Back on topic.

Seems the easiest way to get an answer.

In any case Atkinson claims to have decades of African experience himself so he should then know.

Phil,

Just get on the phone.

There was a second thread similar to the one I posted on 24 Hour Campfire where several comments about Ross and his leaving Wolfe Publications were made. These included comments on his finances, on his Elk Song Ranch business - on several issues that should, IMHO, never have become public even after a parting of ways. It did suggest that many of the comments that were made were posted on a public forum with the sole idea of slinging mud at Ross because several posters there kept asking why he had left Wolfe, where he was going to work at the time, and suggested that they would cancel their subscriptions to Rifle or let them lapse because Ross was no longer there. After what happened there, I see no reason why he would reply to someone who is associated with Wolfe. I don't know ROss Seyfried, have never exchanged a letter or e-mail with him and he was just one of the writers at Rifle whose writing I enjoyed. However, after the very ugly incident at 24 HC which a good friend (who is also a member here) pointed out to me, I was happy to let my subscription for Rifle lapse. And yes, speaking of subscriptions, John Barsness made a statement on 24 HC telling those who were Ross' fans that the number of subscribers at the various Wolfe magazines had increased after Ross left.

I just checked the Under the WIld Skies website for details of it's editorial board and found this: Editorial: Chuck Wechsler Editor-in-Chief
Larry Chesney: Executive Editor There was no mention of Ross as Editor. If he were an editor there, I am sure the magazine would have flaunted it. Like him or not, he has a fan following that is very large compared to many other writers in this industry.

I have no intention of posting further on this thread. I do know, however, how the managements of publishing companies can be with writers/editors who resign/leave. Twenty years in the publishing business does teach you a thing or two about it.

quote:

Just curious - why don't you book your hunts through him?

I am a friend of Ray's, I have booked hunts through him, and shared a camfire with him, and will recommend him without any reservations whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
For those wondering why some are skeptical about the question here.

I rest my case.

Cheers!

What case? I just spent hours reading your um, link, and all I can gleam is that Ross ran down the 458 WM , and that now, quite naturally IMO
Phil wants to show that Ross doesn't know what he's talking about.

Saeed:
It was primarily through your comments about Ray, posted on an earlier thread, that encouraged me to call him about booking with Mr. von Tonder. We are meeting in Dallas in January to work out the details. Thank you.

Mehul:
I have had the opportunity to meet Ross over the years and talk with him on many occassions about the rifles and loads we share in common. While he may be oppinionated to some...well so am I. He was always knowledgable about what did and did not work in his load developement. In particular, he gave me the load I use in my little Rigby NFB 450-400. As soon as I learn how to post pictures I will show what that little rifle did. He did speak to me several years ago about his African PH experience. In particular he spoke of an elephant hunt wherein he tracked a particularly large bull for two days without a shot being fired. When I wrote an article for Black Powder Hunting magazine, about hunting Missouri squirrels with reduced black powder loads with round balls and collar button bullets in Springfield Trapdoors, he was greatly interested in all aspects of my load developement and experience with accuracy and he took my loads I sent him and photographed them properly. He always took a keen interest in what I had to offer in the way of my limited experiences with black powder cartridge hunting. His information always proved accurate to me.

Dutch

Always holding center.

By the by, I just received my latest edition of Under Wild Skies and I thought (I'm at work now without my copy) I saw where ross had an editor's byline. I may be mistaken, however. Will check when I get home.

Dutch

Hoping to always hold center

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
It is true that writing the editor of the magazine is the apropriate response but as Ross is the editor and refuses to talk to me ( and no, I do not know why Ross refuses to talk to me or even answer my lettes )

Phil,
Right or wrong, I interpreted your initial post as you already been in contact with Ross and for some reason been denied the information, or that you possibly wanted to hold court in order to drop a few “hot tid bits†to embarrass/question your former colleague and his credibility. I found it surprising that you didn’t knew about Seyfried’s career as PH. No, I’ve never meet Ross or had any contact with Seyfried, his period as Ph been mentioned in a few articles and I have known about it for quite some years. As a “former colleague†it would have been far more likely that you had better information about Ross and his whereabouts than common readers.

Spreading rumours about a rival on AR would indeed be effective to damage a publication like “under the wild skies†or its contributors. Writers and other professionals in the media sector are highly dependant on their retrospective “track record†to attract new opportunities……..

Anyhow, I have no intention of posting further on this thread…

Cheers
/JOHAN

Somehow this thread is seen by some as a personal attack by me against Ross. It is not. In the current Fall 06 issue of Under Wild Skies magazine Ross is listed on the masthead as Editor-at-large and in the letters to the editor he makes the statement that "Over my ten years of guiding clients in Africa I saw all sorts of success and failures related to the combination of man and rifle."
While Ross was still on the staff at Wolfe I tried to talk to him in person and via letters and e-mail but he refused to correspond with me or even to speak with me. I simply asked if anyone on this forum could shed any more light on the subject.
Obviously this forum was not the best way for me to approach the subject and I'll be glad to retire the question. Also many thanks to those of you who have PM'd me as that info was all I was loking for.

Phil,

I've enjoyed your articles that I've read.

To let you know, on this particular forum, there are odd things that set some people off, and can lead to really heated exchanges over the most benign points.

I thought your question was a legitimate one, especially after reading an article by RS 5 or 6 years ago about an elephant he had shot.
I wondered too where he had been a PH, and who he worked with.

A word of caution...don't ever mention push-feed rifles or the 45-70 in Africa. It's more painful than you can possibly imagine.

Best Regards,
Garrett

I am sure the answer is out there,and Phil it sounds as if you nmay have got the answer via PM, so for the rest of us; Was Ray a PH in Africa for ten years or did he take some literary license in the article referenced?Enquiring minds still want to know.

Is rea in old Guns and Ammo mags articles written by Ross while guiding in Africa ibelieve in Tanzania,one of them was hangunning cape buffalo with an open sigthed single action .Juan

This has got to be one of the weirdest threads in a long time. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought the original question was an honest one. Then we get a link to a thread that was supposed to explain something, although what, I couldn't figure out from the thread! Phil perhaps you can PM me the results of your research? You guys must all know each other reallly well!
Peter.

I agree with Peter, N.Garrett, PeteE and JAL. This forum seemed to me to be a perfectly logical place to post Phils original question.

What better forum to ask about others knowledge of a PH than this one?

Together, AR people have an incredible scope of knowledge about Africa.

Who cares? He's not offering his services as a PH and he writes a good story. He's also a decent guy, helped me out once with a problem with a "gunsmith" in Montana. Ten years is a round number. I read that to mean "I have plenty of experience hunting and guiding in Africa", which, judging from his writing, is true. And if there's bad blood between him and his former employer, well join the fricking club!

What I learned from all the responses, PM's and leads is that Ross appears to be the sole keeper of the truth.
Also, if the following, earlier posted quote is truthful he is also a hell of a lot smarter than I am.
"Ross , has stated ( and I have no reason to dought his word) that he does not do the internet thing therfore probable has no first hand knowledge of this or anyother forum. He does not appear to be interested as to what goes on on this or anyother forum......[/QUOTE]

I doubt Ross is smarter than you...but his stress level is probably less than either you or I!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Just curious - why don't you book your hunts through him?

I am a friend of Ray's, I have booked hunts through him, and shared a camfire with him, and will recommend him without any reservations whatsoever.

I understand, and this is not an attempt to start a new Ray thread. But I was wondering why people who recommend him are booking their safaris elsewhere.

Fortunately I was out hunting and missed the entire Ray thread and have no interest in re-opening it. But in reguards to the question about why change booking agents there are many reasons. In fact this probably should be another thread.
I am only one person with one opinion but my experiences with Ray have shown him to be an honorable and honest person. Yes, he has, and occationally does, book hunts for me but is by no means my "agent". Over the past twenty-five years I have pretty much stayed booked two to three years in advance - strictly by word-of-mouth - but when I get a last minute cancellation Ray has usually been able to find a replacement. Everyone he has sent has been a real pleasure to hunt with I might add.
Booking agents are simply middle men who get together willing buyers and sellers and extract a small commission. The business has it's share of shysters who constantly promise the world and then blame the outfitter - but on the other hand there are lots of fly-by-night outfitters who use booking agents because they never have repeat clientle. Booking agents then get blamed for things that are completely out of their control. Then there are clients-from-hell who no outfitter will re-book and who regularly use new agents and blame everybody.
The point I am making is there are a lot of reputable agents representing reputable outfitters but the industry is in constant flux and there are a thousand reasons to switch agents as well as outfitters.
Just do your homework carefullly and go hunting with an open mind. In fact that would be good advice for everyone on this forum as well.

Phil has always come across as a gentleman in his postings. Despite his obvious expertise he is always polite unlike some of the boofheads who post here.
Mark

Talk about a thread that has taken on a life of it's own.
I have no axe to grind but now I'm curious, where and when was Ross Seyfried a PH?

TerryR

Ross was in Africa from 1979-1989. He worked With United Safari Zambia, Mike Cameron, Ray Sparrow, Hugo Seia, and Cotton Gordon.

micdis, thanks for the info. It is what I was looking for.
May I ask who you are and how you came by this information ? Did you actually have the pleasure of hunting with him or know anyone who did? I assume Ross actually held a PH license during those years ?

quote:

Originally posted by mark smith:
Phil has always come across as a gentleman in his postings. Despite his obvious expertise he is always polite unlike some of the boofheads who post here.
Mark

Really?!

Phil, One of people Ross worked with, Hugo Seia, is still guiding. Ross actually wrote the forward to one of his books. He could probably provide with more information than I could. Btw have you had any more experience using your 505 Gibbs with Woodleigh bullets on game?

Hugo Seia is one of the biggest PHS of all the times Isabell de Quintanilla the wife of Tony Sanchez Arino considered him one of the best of all times ,hes a true caracter who fougth in Angola war and is one of the last of the few ivory hunters.Ibelieve during the ar he fougth with the Flechas formed by phs mostly .If Hugo has Ross with him if because Ross was very ,very good .Cotton Gordon is the same he worked with the best because hes one of the best in our way of living.Juan

Great information about Hugo and I know of Cotton's reputation as well. I don't doubt that Ross may have hunted with either of them but is there any information on who hired who?

I also want to say, that while this may appear to be snooping, and I suppose you could call it that, it is at least in the open and I am not hiding my name, I am by no means trying to discredit Ross. He is who he is and his ability with, and knowledge of firearm is beyond reproach. He is not as forthcoming about his guiding experiences though and my curiosity is due to the fact that as a guide I am curious about others in the field. Whether you are a shoe salesman or brain surgeon, if a stranger told you he was in the same profession most folks would ask a few question in order to establish some sort of a bond. Although it doesn't appear Ross and I are likely to form much of a bond I am still curious.

I've never noticed that Ross produced very many details about being a world Champion shooter, why do you think that he would do so with anyother aspect of his life.......

Are you kidding? The early Ross articles in G&A never let you forget it.
By the way, I am not ashamed of my name and have no need ot hide behind ananomity, who are you?

quote:

By the way, I am not ashamed of my name and have no need ot hide behind ananomity, who are you?

And your point is?

My point is I do not answer anonomous mail. this one being an exception.

So if we had drinks, and dinner together somehow your question and the info you have recieved would be different?

Is that an offer?

quote:

Originally posted by micdis:
Phil, One of people Ross worked with, Hugo Seia, is still guiding. Ross actually wrote the forward to one of his books. He could probably provide with more information than I could. Btw have you had any more experience using your 505 Gibbs with Woodleigh bullets on game?

Who does Hugo guide for now?

When Ross and I were introduced to each other at the IPSC world champs in SA in 1981 he was introduced as a PH working in Tanzania. I have looked up the Magnum magazine report on that shoot and it also gives Ross credit as a TZ based PH.

Ganyana, I figured that if anyone could turn up info you could. thanks.

I believe Hugo Seia has his own company but i dont remember the name .He published a book recently where he relates Ross Cape Buffalo hunt.Juan