How is the 338 Win Mag regarded by African hunters?
To light for the big stuff and to much gun for the planes animals? Heres a group I shot this weekend with a Sako 75 in 338.

206g Groove EXP Bullet seated .015 off the lands.
80.5g of Vihtavuori N560
CCI-BR primer
Win Case
OAL 3.440
Average Velocity 3034 FPS
.556 Group Size @ 100 Yards

Whats the general feeling about the performance of copper solids on game?Any and all answers welcome.
dave

There's nothing at all wrong with the .338 in Africa. You can use it for 99.9% of all the game you'll encounter. One of my favorite P.H.s in South Africa uses his pre 64 Model 70 in .338 almost exclusively. I have no experience with the solids you asked about, so I'll leave that reply up to others.

I've used my .338 exclusively on all 12 of my african animals, from 50 lb springbok to 2000+ lb eland. No complaints from me. I shoot a 230 gr failsafe bullet, so can't speak to your choice of round. However, if I were getting half inch groups, I'd stick with that load.

It's where you shoot them, not what you shoot them with!

Snake

It has become very popular in Africa....I have used it many time in Africa and even shot Buffalo with it...It is about perfect for plainsgame, great for Eland and fine on duiker..

I really like it as a plainsgame rifle in Lion country....

There's nothing new about the .338 Win Mag in Africa. It is close to the older .318 Westley Richards and .333 Jeffrey which were among the great classic African cartridges.

The .338 has a wide range of suitable bullets to go with it as well.

I do not own one but wish I did (or a similar round).
'
Copper solids? Do these expand? If not wouldn't it be better to have a controlled expansion bullet?

I used my 338 on both my trips to Africa. The first trip I had a problem with my 375, and had to use the 338 to take my buffalo. The second trip for plains game only, I used it exclusively, with great success. On both occasions, the PH's seemed to be big fans of this caliber.

As I have said here before, every time I go to Africa my PH asks are you bringing that 338? It is butt ugly but it is a killer. I use Barnes X and Solids in 225 gr., neither the rifle nor bullets have failed me yet. I never named my guns before but this one has been dubed the Africian Queen, camo and all.

Ditto to all of the above. The 338 is ok for just about anything anywhere you go. It even seems to have the best factory ammo of any caliber I've used.

I've used my 338 WM in my two plains game safaris (Zimbabwe and Namibia) and has worked always wonderfuly, from the small steinbok and klipspringer to kudu, gemsbok, zebra, eland... and never I had to track an animal very far, no more than 150 yards, even when the shot was not very well placed;shots from 50 yards to shots over 250 yards.
My PH thinks the 338 is one of the best choices for Africa, it's pity that it can't be used legally for dangerous game.

In both trips I have used the 250 grains Winchester's Partition Gold.

Regards,

I�igo

dave,

Before I became a logged-in member, I lurked around this sight many months, saved certain topics and took notes. Of course everyone has their favorite caliber and gun but I can tell you by my observances of the posts on this sight, the most preferred caliber for plains game is the 338 winmag.

Because of this I have purchased a 338 to get accustom too in preparation of hunting Africa someday. After one season in the field and alot of range time, I am very happy with my selection.

Fred

I've used the .338 Win Mag on two safaris as well and shot everything from springbok and warthog to kudu, Hartman's mountain zebra and cape eland with it. You won't have any problems with your Sako .338. And congratulations, it's a shooter!

I brought this back to the top to thank all of you who responded.Hearing from those of you that have been there and done that means alot to me. I always considered the 338 a kind of lightweight for Africa.I guess im wrong.Wouldnt be the first time.I have also included the rest of my 338 story.

I have been testing and load developing some CNC lathe turned solid copper hunting bullets from a new company called Groove Bullets.These bullets tend to run light for caliber.Shoot very accurately and penetrate like crazy.I have played with them in a 257 Roberts a 300 Win Mag. and a 338 Win Mag.All the pictures below show the 338.
The Rifle is a factory Sako 75 with a synthetic stock chambered in the 338 Win Mag.Sitting on top is a Zeiss 3x9 Conquest in Sako rings.
The load was a 206g Groove EXP bullet seated about .015 off the lands.
80.5g of Vihtavuori N560.
CCI-BR primer.
New never fired Win cases.
The group was fired at my local rifle range at 100 yards and it measures .650
This was only the second time I've had this rifle to the range and the first time out with this load.

I just could not leave well enough alone and switched my bullet seating die from a Redding press die to a Wilson straight line seater.I like the Wilson seater and as I have a arbor press Its usually no problem.I had my seating depth all worked out at .015 off the lands
And during the process I ended up seating my bullets .02 out farther than I should have.As you can see below EXPs dont like being stuffed up into the lands.The group below ended up measuring 1.362

Once I removed my head from my butt and seated the EXPs back where they belong .015 off the lands again. I shot a nice .556 pictured below.Its the same target thats at the top.This Sako is a handfull and is pretty hard to controll during recoil.Actually its most unpleasant.I dont know how you African hunting guys get any kind of accuracy out of anything that kicks this hard.Its been over week now since I shot this thing and my shoulder is still yellow.Should be just the ticket for shooting through brick walls or knocking down elephants.

Then,while we were at it,we did a penatration test.
We used 1 gallon steel cans filled with water and placed them out at the 100 yard line.We spaced the cans one inch apart and let um fly.We shot one 210g Nosler Partition and one 206g Groove EXP bullet. The powder charge and velocity were the same for both bullets.
The Partition on the right was recovered from the 5th can. I walked out picked up the 5th can screwed off the top and poured the water and then the spent slug into my hand.The 5th can had a nice dent out the back but the bullet did not exit.
The Groove EXP bullet on the left was recovered from the 9th can. There was a nice size dent out the back but the bullet did not exit.I actually ended up doing the EXP bullet twice.It penatrates so many cans its hard to get them lined up right at 100 yards. If the bullet comes out the side somewhere you have to start over.

The weight of the recovered Partition was 170g and as you can see it lost its nose.The Groove EXP came in at a recovered weight of 166g the bits of copper were found in cans 2 and 3.
I would like to thank mikeh416Rigby,SnakeLover,
Atkinson,NitroX,zim698,Die Ou Jagter,Mikelravy,
euler01,Fred Gordon and bwanamrm
I hope that you have found this interesting and if you would like to read more about it, you can always give the websight a try.
http://www.groovebullets.com/

Have a great week
dave

Dave7mm--Those bullets look very interesting. I see on your link that the biggest caliber that it comes out in is 338. Do you have any idea if they will come out in bigger caliber stuff? Like 375, 416, 458, 475. I may never use this stuff as I've basically set on all my other toys with 1-3 loads each that shoot accurately. I try to reload and experiment as little as possible since I find it to be tedious and in my mind not so much fun. The fun is in popping the caps.

475guy,
There is a 375 bullet. In fact one of the very first bullets I played with was a 272g 375 EXP.As I have my 375 in a M700 I had to jump my bullets .150 to make them fit in the mag.Accuracy was not the best.Like 1.5 inch groups at 100 and then I ran out of test bullets and never got to try them seated farther out.I see some of the other shooters over there are haveing good luck jumping bullets.I did not.Its my understanding that Groove is going to have the big stuff the keep you african hunting guys happy.But Im not exactley sure what hes bringing out. You might email him to get the skinny.
dave

Dave7mm

I have used my .338 on two safaris. It worked exceptionally well on the 100yd. to 320yd. shots required. 11 trophies at this point, the last four [Black, White, and Common Springbok, Blue Wildebeest] took four shots total.
My rifle is a Winchester Classic Model 70 Stainless - Synthetic. I shot only 250gr Barnes X, 61.5 gr IMR-4350 @ approx 2500fps. This is a relatively mild load but has performed every time.
The bullet that transited the Warthog from one end to the other [south to north] and the one from the Blue Wildebeest both now weigh in at 249.5gr each. On the Springbok they passed through the chest completely with very small exits, acting much like solids though were not recoverable.

Recoil was stout, even with the factory B.O.S.S. but the addition of a "Dead Mule" recoil reducer has made a huge difference. You might even fit two in the stock to get better reduction [so I'm told]. If your rifle is as light as mine was it would make a noticeable difference. I highly recommend it.

Good Luck!

Les

Hi!

I met a PH last spring that has found the .338 to be the best cal. for lion -and all plainsgame. He�s done his share of hunting so I believe him.

Thanks Don for the info. But the question of other big bore bullets is still unanswered. I am assuming that r&d will take a little while.

HI,

GROOVE BULLETS, how about something in a 416 cal,betwwen 350 and 370 grains?. Kev

Dave7mm. Please tell me your experiences with the 257 Roberts and groove Bullets ie. accuracy, loads etc.
Thanks, Peter.

475Guy,

We already ran some of the 375, 416 and 458 caliber bullets for testing purposes. We expect to have all testing done in a couple of weeks and will be introducing those calibers shortly thereafter. The three calibers mentioned above are shorter (length) then the first 375 caliber bullet. Since we have hunters interested in purchasing the first 375 caliber Groove Bullet we will have 2 different 375 caliber bullets for sale.

I will keep you and others posted.

Thank you for your questions.

Don

Peter,
The rifle is a Remington 722.The serial number indicates that it was made sometime between June of 1956 and June of 1957. I bought it becaues I got it cheep and really liked the quality of the machining on the action. I was going to use it for parts. And then I shot it. Shoots way to good to make over, so I use it as my loan a gun.
The load was.
101g Groove EXP Bullet
50g of Reloader 19
CCI-BR Primer
Win Case
Average Velocity 3182 FPS
Group Size at 100 yards .499
It took me about two trips to the range to come up with this load and actually the group in the picture up top is the very first group I fired. Shot it a few more times and was as happy as a pig in poopoo.The thing was shooting so well that I just didnt see the need to monkey with it any farther.
I had a ballistip tip load usuing H414 that shot very well that I had used for a number of years for deer hunting but felt I needed something a bit tougher for a group pig hunt we had last Janurary.
I had offered the rifle as a loan a gun to a petite female that was on our hunt as she needed a rifle that she could handle.We were concerned about how well the bullet would perform on hogs.So we gave the 25 caliber bullet the can test before we went to Texas.
http://www.groovebullets.com/performance.html
That picture pretty much says it all.A 101g 25 caliber EXP bullet out penetrated a 338 caliber 210g Nosler Partition by one whole can and then some.After that I quit worrying what a EXP bullet would kill.
It turned out that she ended up shooting a 150 pound hog.As I remember she got a quarting on shot and put the EXP bullet just ahead of the front shoulder with the bullet exiting right on the offside shoulder giving about a 1.5 diameter exit hole.Lights out time.
This rifle is a pleasure to shoot and is death to hogs.Its also alot more fun the shoot than a 338 Win Mag
dave

Dave7mm. Thanks very much for the response. You are right about the 257 Roberts. It is an absolute delight to shoot. I see some groove bullets in my future.
Peter.

HI,

Thank you Groove Bullets for your reply, will a 320 grain .416 bullet penetrate enough and what would you estimate the fps for that grain bullet in a 416 Rigby?. Kev