I was watching this film last night and noticed that in some scenes there was a guy in the rear of the pack carrying an ak47. Why is this?

crl

Probably a Government Game Guard

Why would they need a government game gaurd? Is this a welfare to work program? Who is he gaurding game from with an ak? Just isn't making any sense to me.

depending on the country/concession - most gov owned properties require that a game guard/scout/ranger accompany the hunting party.

His job really isn't so much to protect you from the game, he's more protecting the game from you.

I think i have heard they actually are there to discourage run ins with poachers and or thieves

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
depending on the country/concession - most gov owned properties require that a game guard/scout/ranger accompany the hunting party.

His job really isn't so much to protect you from the game, he's more protecting the game from you.

EXACTLY!

The game scout/ranger is like a game warden, and is there to see that you don't shoot things you are not licensed to shoot! The AK47 is simply his issue weapon, and he is required to carry it any time he's on duty! Most of those AKs are so dirty, they will not shoot, and many times, are not even loaded!

One of my game scouts had a 458 but no ammo.

I laughed to myself when I saw that guy...

Who the heck is he protecting....

What a joke.

Hello,
That AK has nothing to do with game killing, but the poachers, thieves, criminals, etc. are quite common in all of Africa. I travelled all over the continent some years ago on business and found that in the northern areas, AK's , middle continent, FN/FAL's, HK's, etc. Germans and the Belgiums sold weapons of all sorts for years and years and then down in the southern areas, started seeing the AK's and it's variants. Was told in the larger cities in SA, AK's could be had as cheap as $15 American.
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

In Tanzania one game scout carried this .458 Winchester (second from the left)


When we changed concessions, the other game scout didn't have a rifle, so I let him carry one of mine.

We did run across a recently vacated poachers' camp in the Selous. They had killed a giraffe and smoked the meat.

Regards,

Terry

I think the "game guard" is one part protector of the game, one part protector of the visiting hunter and one part protector of future income streams. When we were hunting The Makuleke concession in RSA a few years ago, we had KNP guards with us at all times and yes, they raised their rifles (FAL's) as we all did just in case a bluffing Elephant wasn't bluffing. In many less civilized areas of Africa, however, the guards are truly there almost solely to protect future tourist dollars. It is neither good for business to have visitors stomped NOR to have them involved in any sort of conflict with locals. As evidence, we had national AND local police escorts during our upland/waterfowl safari here in Egypt a couple of months ago. I doubt very highly that the AK's were around the duck blinds to protect us from dive bombing Northern Shovelers.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

In 2002 I was hunting in Mozambique and we had a game scout with us virtually all the time. He too was armed with an AK-47. A hippo we shot washed downriver and it took us awhile to locate it. When we did we found the local people had found it first and were in the process of chopping the hippo up and hauling off the meat. The game scout earned his paycheck that day as he and our head tracker waded into them and it was quite a tense scene for a couple minutes. The locals were all armed with big knives and I appreciated why he packed an AK-47 as we were a long, long way from any back-up.

In the more secure "wilderness" of the Okavango, I had an unarmed "Community Escort Guide" accompany my outfit. His name was Ernest and he spoke only Tswana, as far as I could tell.

He brought up the rear on all our stalks, helped pole the makoro dugout canoe, and he road the back of the bakkie topside like the skinner and tracker, Motsoomee and !Gho.

Ernest was affable, conversed with Motsoomee, and helped Motsoomee skin the buffalo.

It seemed more like a social program, to involve another local in the business, and thus make the locals happier to see us hunters handing out tips and turning over the meat to the community, after we took a few choice cuts.

No AK47's in the Okavango, Botswana, as it is about as safe and secure as it gets in Africa.

Was it an AK47 (milled receiver and very heavy, and probably 50 years old), or AKM (stamped receiver and will probably shoot but not straight unless its Russian, Hungarian or Chzec!).

"The AK is for the Mass'es and the FN is for the Class'es!"

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
Was it an AK47 (milled receiver and very heavy, and probably 50 years old), or AKM (stamped receiver and will probably shoot but not straight unless its Russian, Hungarian or Chzec!).

"The AK is for the Mass'es and the FN is for the Class'es!"

Andy

The $15 ones must have surely been AKM's. Probably all of the Game Scouts are packing AKM's.
Thanks for the correction, but you know how it is when we listen to or read the news, they all become AK47's, regardless.

I've seen them carry FALs, AKs and once, even a nice, but very worn, Mauser in 9.3x62mm, and sometimes, no weapon at all.

I've seen the most compulsive (dedicated?) ones carry a GPS to fix the exact location of every animal killed.

But armed or not, and dedicated or not, they're always there at tipping time! It's just Africa.

I saw a game scout carrying a Webley & Scott sidelock shotgun with 1 trigger broken off, a liberal amount of pitting on the metal, and some serious wear on the wood. Someone must be rolling over in the grave about that one.

AKs sell very cheaply in Afganistan, Pakistan and many other places, there are millions of them around and accurate or not they still manage to kill thousands of people a year.

If ever given tha chance everyone should empty a few clips through a FN-FAL on full auto

Last year in Tanzania, we had two game scouts, one had an FN SLR, and one had an old FN .404.

The one with the .404 kept looking at my ammo belt, as I had loaded my ammo - 375/404 - in two different case.

RWS Norma .404 brass and .416 Dakota brass.

He kept trying to work out how one rifle can shoot both .404 and .416 ammo!

Ray had a good laugh at this scout's head scratching

Here's a pic of our Tanzanian Gamescout, Juma, with his 404 and his one, single round of ammo. The bullet is pushed as far back in the case as it can possibly go. Juma was one of our better game spotters and was solely responsible for a very nice greater kudu that we took. Also, Juma was a devout Muslim and observed the Ramadan fast much of the time I was there. He was very quick to bleed some of my "wounded" animals so that he could gorge himself on the meat after the sun set.
He was a great guy to be around.

I have not seen the video, but I was in the next camp over (Big 5 Safaris, Chewore North, Zimbabwe) a week after they filmed it. I also have met Andrew Dawson, the PH, a few times. He was my bush pilot on my first safari and he is good friends with my PH, Ian Gibson.

Anyway, all of the Zim Game Scouts in the area carry AK47's and the ones I have seen up close were all milled receivers.

Boddington was hunting the Chewore North concession which is on the banks of the Zambezi. For you geography majors, this is the border with Zambia. There are no people/villagers in Chewore North. Therefore, Zambian villagers (poachers) paddle across the Zambezi and shoot elephants and other game. The game scout is watching out for these poachers. He is also watching YOU and the PH to be sure you are not breaking any laws (shooting at water holes, shooting animals not on quota, etc.). He is also keeping track of which animals you shoot to be sure the PH keeps records. These guys are the law in Zimbabwe bush.

Now, saying that, I have found them to be pretty nice guys once you get to know them.

Also, if you forget your rifle, they will hand you their AK-47 to use on the buffalo



Tim

When I hunted in the Matetsi area in Zim the game scout was a very valuable resource as he really knew the area and the animals plus he was an outstanding tracker.

He apoke fair English, worked well with the PH and his crew and was so helpful I gave him both a cash tip and one of the small pairs of binoculars I carry as a spare. I also made sure he got a full set of the photos I took of my trip. I thought he was very important for the sucess I had on my trip.

When I hunted in the Omay in Zimbabwe in June we had a Game Scout with us every day for the 21 days. He was armed with an FN-FAL, with ammo.
He chambered a round only once, when I shot a cow elephant and the rest of the herd came our way. He worked just as hard as the Trackers, carrying shot animals, helping hang leopard baits, tracking, spotting game, etc. Three times on the Safari we had to stop hunting to take down and recover some poachers snares. He was a nice fellow. He certainly earned every dollar of his tip.

After reading these post I hope that all hunters who meet these game scouts they talk so highly of do the right thing and clean the scouts gun and give them all your ammo that is left over when the hunt has ended. You should always go prepared for this. Having done this in Zim a couple of times myself. These people help you and protect your hunting areas for future trips. Help them back.

The game guards on my safaris have always been good guys. They were indistinguishable from the trackers (who are probably relatives anyway). They helped with tracking, spotting game, and with skinning and butchery required in the field. But always kept a close eye on the meat and if a guard for a private property rather than a gov't concession made SURE their animals stayed on their properties.

Always tipped them the same as trackers as they did the same job for me.

Take a bunch of these and give them to game scout and PH at the end of the safari.



Birchwod Casey's website doesn't list this product anymore, but appears to have replaced it with this:





Regards,

Terry

On my last trip to Tanzania(Aug2004) the game guard had a WW1 vintage British Enfield

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
On my last trip to Tanzania(Aug2004) the game guard had a WW1 vintage British Enfield

Some of the other guys in KNP when we were there had Enfields strapped to their bicycles.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Forrest B, what's the skinny on that 404? That's one of the coolest rifles I've ever seen. Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Here's a pic of our Tanzanian Gamescout, Juma, with his 404 and his one, single round of ammo. The bullet is pushed as far back in the case as it can possibly go. Juma was one of our better game spotters and was solely responsible for a very nice greater kudu that we took. Also, Juma was a devout Muslim and observed the Ramadan fast much of the time I was there. He was very quick to bleed some of my "wounded" animals so that he could gorge himself on the meat after the sun set.
He was a great guy to be around.

ForrestB,
That is a priceless photo of Juma. Obviously he is a wise fellow who tkes pride in his choice of rifle and ammunition. Thanks!

It would be great to be able to tip Juma with .404 Jeffery ammo.

Some hunters give extra 404s or whatever to the Tanzania game scouts as tips or just as a nice jester in which case they will probably poach one elephant with every round given..

Please keep that in mind and don't give them ammo..they must account for every issued round which is 4 per gamescout as a rule, not so with gifted, stolen, or purchased ammo.

At one time it was cutomary for PHs to leave drastically over loaded (404s filled with Bullseye) ammo laying around to be stolen, then when Poacher, insurgents fired one, one gun less and perhaps one poacher or insurgent less...This apparantly took place in both Zimbabe (Rhodesia) and in Tanzania...and may still for all I know.

Just an interresting bit of trivia, history or whatever you wish to call it....

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Some hunters give extra 404s or whatever to the Tanzania game scouts as tips or just as a nice jester in which case they will probably poach one elephant with every round given..

Please keep that in mind and don't give them ammo..they must account for every issued round which is 4 per gamescout as a rule, not so with gifted, stolen, or purchased ammo.

At one time it was cutomary for PHs to leave drastically over loaded (404s filled with Bullseye) ammo laying around to be stolen, then when Poacher, insurgents fired one, one gun less and perhaps one poacher or insurgent less...This apparantly took place in both Zimbabe (Rhodesia) and in Tanzania...and may still for all I know.

Just an interresting bit of trivia, history or whatever you wish to call it....

Rays advice sounds good to me. I'd rather leave the extra rounds with the PH for future clients in trouble due to lost baggage.

Heh, heh, I stand corrected, AGAIN.
I won't leave any ammo with the game scout, just with the PH, as I did last time in Botswana. They were gahgah thrilled to have some .416 Rigby loaded with GSC FN, and .375 H&H loaded with 300 gr X bullets.
Cheers!

Rough justice Ray. Sort of like the guy I know in Johannesburg who keeps a poisoned half bottle of vodka in his car. Sort of a last laugh on carjackers.

A fellow I know who ran a intercontinental trucking business always used to be his cabs robbed in Bangui, Central African Rrepublic. He left a whiskey bottle laced with cyanide in the cab one night. Next morning it was gone.

Problem fixed. Never had anyone mess with his vehicle after that.

I think Shumba wins the photo of the month award.

Andy