The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Buying A Puff Adder?????????????Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I agree with Ray. And to make matters worse, it is very tough to find a collar and leash that will fit your pet viper, your pit viper. There ARE leash laws in many communities. | ||
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No, on second thoughts it is true that a responsibly owned snake is no more danger than a responsibly owned pitbull. We shouldn't overregulate any pet or past time until it proves to be dangerous on a regular/predictable basis... When is the last time you heard of a snake deaths being regular, what kind of law/permit/test will really ensure people won't die? The bottom line is, accidental shootings will occur, snakes make get out of their tank once in 3 lifetimes and kill someone, but it doesn't allow us to restrict people's rights in punishment for the rotten apples (sound familiar?) | |||
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Holmes I agree to a point even though I hate poisonous snakes. I will only say that my firearm cant get out of its cage and slither on over to "visit" the neighbours on its own. But you could be playing with your gun while it is loaded and a bullet heads over to the neighbour's house. A thief could break into your house and steal your gun. You might even suffer a mental problem and get your gun and shoot some people. The list goes on. Mike | |||
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Saeed, How old were they when you purchased them? And can you handle/play with them (with your hands... without the snake handling tweezers). I have a yellow anaconda (Tahesha) and evey other yellow anaconda owner I saw told me they got realy grumpy and mean as they grew older and larger  . Tahesha never got aggressive with anybody, and she's now a comfortable 11 ft. I pick her up once every 2/3 months, lack of time.Maybe it depends on the owner? | |||
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They were given to us when they were very young - that was about 5 years ago. We don't even have snake tweezers!? They just climb on my arm after I stroke thier backs for a minute. I use both hands to carry each one, as they are quite big now. | |||
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Saeed, that's pretty cool  I saw a picture in National Geographic of a Thai snake shaman with his 11-ft. Cobra, fanged and all: impressive! Take care | |||
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I just lost my last breeding pair of Indonesian gold cobras and in the past, I have had Malasian kings and several species of monacled cobras. As a breed, with the exception of spitters, cobras are quite calm and relaxed. I got hit once by my own carelesness, dry bite and lessoned learned, but after owning over 30 cobras I can say they are generally less agressive than the common garter snake. My kings were actually quite pleasant. The female had a sheet that she would not leave under any circumstances when out of her cage. You could put her on the sheet and go to lunch, she wouldn't budge. She went to several college lectures with me a few years back. A few light strokes to the back of the head and she would spread her hood (almost 6" across!) and hold it for a few minutes while calmly looking around. She died after 12 years. Pet or no, you get attatched. I'm out of it now, I tend to travel and work too much. Snake, dog, horse-whatever-it's not fair if you don't spend time with 'em. | |||
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I do keep snakes at home (hots no, not any longer), and I love them as much as one could love his dogs. I wouldn't allow anyone who doesn't know about me, to call me an idiot just because I have snakes! I used to be one of the biggest tarantula breeders in France, and nobody considered me irresponsible nor dangerous. Crazy yes  .Some people can keep venomous animals and some should not. Some people can have guns and some should not. I say, when people know what they are doing, please leave them alone! | |||
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Are snakes ever affectionate to their owner, or do they just tolerate you? Is the animal 'happy' to see you, or just as happy if you just feed it every so often for a year... | |||
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Bog, It is generally considered that snakes do not recognize their owner (excepting cobras, I have been told). They accept us human beings (some species don't), but their relationship with us is evolutive, I mean a snake will tame if handled on a regular basis, and will stay wild if not (they get used to us). I have for one month now a young female Peruvian red-tail (the biggest of all the Boa subspecies) and she is a pure beauty, with a very interesting temper : sometimes she accepts handling, sometimes she says no (well, she rather says SSSHHHHHHHHSSSSSSSS  ). She will calm down with ageing - hopefully, otherwise I will be in a very uncomfortable position when she is fully grown, at 3 meters and 30 kgs, if she keeps her bad temper! She is my first bo�d and I am absolutely in love with her, it's a completely different world from colubrids! | |||
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Getting back to the main subject of this post, may I add that the puffadder is a beautiful animal, and certainly very interesting to keep and breed? Unfortunately law regulations for keeping venomous snakes in France are so restrictive that my only chance to puffadders would be illegal, so I will stick to boas and colubs  . | |||
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Quote: I'm sure that there are people on other boards saying, "Look at these people who go to Africa and attack lions and elephants on purpose. What kind of jackass would do this? I thought I had seen some stupid people, but these Cretins take the cake." Potentially risky hobbies may look stupid to people who don't understand how to minimize the risks using appropriate safety skills. Obviously it would be stupid to go after a lion if you were not prepared with the correct skills and tools. It's also stupid to get behind the wheel of a car if you can't drive, or to play with guns if you don't know which end goes bang. There are some people who are skilled and competent in venomous snake keeping. Their snakes will not escape and they are not likely to be bitten. In some states keepers are legally licensed and inspected by wildlife authorities to make sure their caging is professionally secure and locked. There are also some people who keep venomous snakes illegally and irresponsibly. They are likely to be bitten, and there have been a few escapes - but an escaped venomous snake is not nearly the threat most people seem to think it is. There have been no human bites to date caused by escaped venomous snakes. The responsible keepers are not happy with the irresponsible ones because they give the hobby a bad name, and we do what we can to police our own community. Native venomous snakes also aren't nearly as much of a threat as people blow them up to be, according to medical statistics. In North America, the largest number of animal related injuries and fatalities are caused (roughly in order) by bees, horses and dogs. Snakes are awfully low on the list. Americans are much more likely to be killed by lightning than by a venomous snake. Snakebite incidents are more common in rural countries, but they still tend to be at the bottom of the "animal injury" list. Dogs and horses are considerably more dangerous. If you don't bother snakes, snakes generally won't bother you. If you step on one, or if you step so close to one that it's sure you will step on it if it doesn't do something, there will be a defensive strike. I suggest wearing boots and chaps in snake territory and watching where you step. It really is a lose-lose situation for a venomous snake to bite a non food target, so they have a fairly strong biological motivation not to bite. Not only do they need to conserve venom in order to eat, their bones and teeth are so fragile that a strike to a relatively unyielding object (like a person's leg) is quite likely to result in injury to the snake's mouth. Even more risky is the chance that the bitten person (or predator) will step or fall on the snake, which would likely be a fatal injury. If you've ever deboned and eaten a fish, you have a good idea what snake bones look like. They're fragile. They snap like potato chips under pressure. The organs underneath are fragile as well. A lot of people don't realize this since a fatally injured snake can look and act perfectly normal long enough to slither away, and in some cases for hours or even days. But the bottom line is that one careless step from an animal of our size is quite likely to do a snake in, especially a terrestrial viper due to some unique tricks of their physiology. That's why they vigorously defend the immediate range around their bodies. They have no choice; it's a do or die situation. Snakes are fundamentally not aggressive. Tangling with a 200-lb critter is a very poor move for a comparatively lightweight, physically fragile animal that is simply not equipped to stand and fight. They can be extremely defensive for the reasons I've outlined, but most of the incidents I've heard reported of snakes "chasing" people are either short distance bluff lunges that you can easily walk away from (my cobras do this to me all the time) or the snake is headed rapidly in the same direction as the human because it's terrified and that's where its best hiding spot is. I regularly sit or lie down in front of wild North American venomous snakes in order to get good documentary photographs or to observe and record behaviors. As long as I am outside their immediate strike range, they will not move forward to attack me. They will only defend themselves if I get much too close. I bet my life on that bit of behavioral science regularly, and I'm still here. I also don't mind sharing a small bathroom with adult mambas and king cobras who need to spend some time in the shower being rained on to help them shed. While they're in it, they'll defend the bathtub as their territory, but they don't jump out of it to attack me while I sit on the toilet a few feet away. Due to the nature of my work, these animals are fresh wild caught imports straight from Africa and Malaysia, not long term captive tame snakes. So I personally find it a little hard to believe people who say how dangerous and aggressive venomous snakes are. It is true that they are dangerous, but the aggressive part has got to be highly exaggerated by people with more fear and ignorance than real knowledge of snake behavior. I'm a little gal, about five foot tall in my stocking feet, and I don't honestly find anything particularly difficult about working at very close quarters with the most feared snakes in the world. They are basically nice critters that don't want to bite so much as they want to keep themselves in one piece. If you keep just enough respectful distance as not to scare them and force a defensive response, there's really no worries. Anything that's potentially dangerous can be abused in an irresponsible way - guns and cars for example. This does not mean that everyone who owns a gun or a car is an idiot. Skiing is a dangerous sport. So is hunting. Bad things can happen if you are careless or have an accident. Does this make you stupid if you like to ski or hunt or keep venomous snakes? I don't think so. I hope that after reading some of the responses on this thread from responsible snake keepers, you don't either. | |||
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Snakegetter, Excellent post! You speak well for the hobby and profession. When a bit younger, I did some snake hunting in SE Asia for a couple of zoos and universities, and while you are correct for the most part on non-agression, there are a few that I'm sure our Aussie friends would disagree on! Taipans and common browns are insanely agressive, and available for sale on the internet in the US for whomever wants 'em. Tigers also, but not normally so agressive. Of course I've had a few run-ins with spitting cobras in southern Africa, and you couldn't pay me to keep them. Cape Cobras are fairly docile, as are gibbons and green mambas. Never kept black mambas, so I can't say about them, but I did see one for sale for 500USD. For me, kraits, cobras and coral snakes are generally more "tame" (no such word for snakes, they only become used to us) than the average python, boa or corn snake sold in pet stores. The major difference is YOU BETTER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! | |||
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Snakegetters, Welcome to the forum. A well thought out and written post, thank you. I am sometimes amazed by some of the posts we get on these forums. We have a few posters who seem to think that if someone does something they think is dangerous, that person should be locked up. My own attituse is the exact opposite. If it turns you on, go ahead and do it, but don't expect me to follow your example, and I promise not call the boys with the straight jacket either | |||
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Saeed, I think you misinterpreted my intent on the original post. If somebody wants to keep a grizzly bear in an apartment, whatever. But he or she better be damn well qualified and knowlegable about what they are getting themselves into and the potential consequences that an escaped "pet" could cause. Some states here require NO special permits or inspections of the owners facilities. Here in the US, some people simply release a pet when they are sick of it or it becomes too much of a problem. In the warmer regions, these exotic reptile would thrive. Snakegetters, in regards to your assertion that nobody has been harmed by a venomous escaped reptile. I must disagree with you sir. Watch a program called Venom ER or something to that effect. They had a gentleman who was bitten by some type of exotic snake- sawscale viper??? and almost died because the antivenom was almost impossible to aquire. I guess I just prefer dogs to Black Mambas. Call me silly. | |||
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TJC, It was not you that I meant in my post, but those few members who seem to find fault with practically anything anyone else does. | |||
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Quote: Taipans are insanely expensive, and common browns nearly impossible to get hold of in the States. The taipans I've handled have all been from Papua New Guinea, and I would characterize them as a bit thrashy and snappy. Defensive to be sure, but not aggressive. Let's face it - if a huge stranger grabbed you by the rear end and pulled, you'd be a bit defensive and snappy too. LOL They are very fast and agile and difficult to tail. I would very much like a pair of Tiger snakes (Notechis scutatus) but they aren't gettable for love or money anywhere in the US that I know of. If you know of a legal source (eg, zoo surplus stock) PLEASE let me know. I have been searching for several years now with no luck. Quote: Yeah, they suck. I try to avoid them because repeated exposure to spitters is a good way to develop an allergy to venom. You can't avoid it because they spray all over the room. Whether they hit you or not, you rack up an exposure. An allergy to venom is a very serious thing for a snake keeper for the obvious reasons. Quote: My young captive bred capes could be fairly described as buttheads. They're a bit naughty. Not hard to handle really, but huffy and prone to repeated bluff strikes. They don't calm down until they get a bit older. Mambas of all four species calm down very quickly in captivity. I have three of the four currently (Eastern green, black, Jameson's). I have no trouble handing my 7' black mamba a mouse on forceps, or handling him with a short hook (the Midwest Mini Hook). He peacefully takes the mouse and doesn't mind me atall. Gaboons are fat lazy lumps most of the time, but when motivated their strike speed is very impressive. I wrote a little article about them here: http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/gaboons.html Quote: I would also class the mambas as being quite easy to handle. They are a bit flighty and nervous at first, but a few months in captivity and they get quite docile. But of course if you screw up, you can die. If the snake is having a bad scale day and you are foolish enough to be freehandling it without safety tools, you can die. Any animal including the family dog or cat may be frightened enough to nip a person who accidentally hurts or startles them. So if you don't know what you are doing, leave the venomous snakes in the zoo please. | |||
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Quote: I agree completely that being irresponsible with potentially dangerous exotic animals is, well, irresponsible. I support Florida's wildlife permitting system and consider this a reasonable way to make sure that only qualified people may keep exotics. I think more states would be well advised to follow Florida's model. We require documentation of one year and one thousand logged hours of professional experience with a wildlife group for a permit, plus inspection of secure caging facilities. Quote: *chuckle* Last I checked, I was not a sir. The fellows I've dated would be quite surprised to hear that I was! LOL Dr. Sean Bush is an old acquaintance, so I'll call him and check it out. I have not had any television for more than ten years now, so the only time I get to watch shows like that is when me or my friends are actually working on the set and we pass videotapes around. Exotic bites definitely do happen, but they happen to the keepers who are working with the snakes. Not to innocent bystanders bitten by an escaped exotic. I had trouble ordering Echis antivenom last time I got a load in from the SA lab that makes it, so I imagine stocks are still low. Thanks for reminding me to prod them again on my back order of the stuff. I don't currently keep Echis, but I do work with Atheris and the Echis antivenom is the closest cross reactive. | |||
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Quote: Gads! A snake dame!!! You and Ann are two of a kind. She loves herpetology too. I only have one thing to say about handling dangerous snakes -- napalm. Russ | |||
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Snakegetters, sorry, my mistake. You sound very knowlegable about snakes. You and I are in agreement about needing some kind of training for keeping any kind of dangerous animal. Thanks for the information. | |||
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Quote: A fellow here in Florida saw what he believed was a water moccasin or cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorus conanti) in the grass of his backyard as he was preparing to grill steaks on the barbecue. Determined to attack and kill the snake, he sprayed a copious amount of lighter fluid into the grass and tossed a match. He was hospitalized with severe burns. The snake, which was probably a harmless Nerodia in any case, seems to have escaped without injury. So that was pretty silly. Ask any cop how smart it is to escalate the level of violence in a situation by attacking an armed suspect who is just sitting there. The suspect would probably give it up and go quietly if you reassured him that he would not be hurt and didn't make any moves to scare him. Choosing to escalate the level of violence increases the risk of people getting hurt, including innocent bystanders. The smartest thing to do when you see a snake is to tip your hat and walk the other way, or to use long tools to move it in a gentle manner. A cornered, hurt and frightened snake is a desperate creature that can perform some amazingly athletic feats as it draws upon the utmost of its resources to save its own life. A gently prodded snake may show a bit of ill temper, but it is not nearly as dangerous as a seriously hurt one. Generally a snake will either accept gentle handling quietly or it will depart in an offended huff. Vipers are generally more likely to let you move them around and elapids are more likely to turn tail and run. Snake hooks, long sticks, tongs, pool nets, brooms, empty garbage bins, etc, are recommended as good tools for safe snake management. Napalm generally isn't. Though apparently it has been attempted with rather dubious results. LOL I teach a course in snake safety for police and wildlife officers; you can take a look at the material here if you like. http://www.snakegetters.com/class/intro.html | |||
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Well. I appreciate your background, expertise, and education. However, I have a pretty decent background in using flames to eliminate problems. I haven't been burned and I respect fire enough that I'm pretty sure I won't be. Maybe I will. Maybe you'll get bitten by one of those "one-step" snakes or something. Ca-ca happens. As to your comment about leaving armed suspects alone -- I'm not a cop. I don't employ a firearm against a human being unless I plan to kill said human being with it. I grew up on westerns, yes -- but I absolutely DO NOT adhere to the B.S. mentality of letting the bad guy draw first just to prove I'm the good guy. Maybe you don't know how fast someone can go from a "just sitting there" position in a chair to crossing a room and ramming a knife deep into your chest cavity, but I do. People can move pretty darn fast when they're well-motivated and/or pumped up on drugs and/or adrenaline. If I have a reason to suspect someone or something poses a lethal threat to me, I WILL NOT give said entity a chance to go away and ruin someone else's weekend. I saw way to much of that on my little trip "out of town" last year. I won't make that mistake. Ever. In closing, I'm not in the reassuring business. I don't negotiate and I don't reassure. I offer the ballistic solution. My ex-wife's current husband (#4) was burning some smokeless powder (he apparently fancies himself a handloader and felt he had too much "excess" powder he no longer needed) to get rid of it. He burned his face and most of his upper body because he's a moron. I'm sure you know what you're doing with snakes. I know what I'm doing with fire. I was being somewhat facetious previously in my reference to using napalm, but it IS indicative of my sentiment toward snakes... and other problems, for that matter. Quote: The others also require you be in the immediate proximity of the snake to resolve the situation. Napalm doesn't. I'm personally not interested in "safe snake management." Frankly, speaking personally here, I feel the term is a contradiction. Hooah, ma'am. Russ | |||
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 Russell is teaching us another meaning of the term "Hot Snakes"  Rick. | |||
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Quote: Russ | |||
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Quote: Okay, but I still think that firebombing might be a bit of an overreaction to the sight of a small woodland creature. LOL Snakes really aren't much of a threat to an alert person who wears boots and watches where he is stepping. "One step" snakes are a myth. Even a fully envenomating bite by the most toxic snakes on the planet would leave you a fair amount of time (from 5 minutes at absolute worst case to more like 30-60 minutes in a typical case) before any systemic effects were seen. After the onset of initial systemic effects, you still have more time before the really serious effects like paralysis (respiratory and otherwise) sets in. If you are allergic and go into anaphylactic shock, or if the fang actually hits a vein, all bets are off. Both cases are extremely, extremely rare - except for the former, among people who are long term habitual snake handlers or who work with dried venom. That would be me. I am at much higher risk of a rapid death than the average Joe, because of my years of exposure to snake venom and the subsequently increased chance of anaphylaxis. In all cases the onset of systemic symptoms can be delayed up to 24 hours by pressure immobilization. This is not a tourniquet, but a lymphatic wrap. Think of an Ace bandage wrapped to support a sprained wrist, and a splint on top of that. If you're bitten in the wilderness and need to walk out on a snake bite, use PI. Keep in mind that PI can increase local tissue damage if the venom has cytotoxic components and is not a pure neurotoxin. But it's better than dying because you can't walk out and get help. Quote: Oh, I agree. I'd shoot a threatening person pretty quick myself, because I can't predict people behavior and I prefer to put my own safety first. But venomous snakes just aren't that much of a threat. They're little and physically weak. You can walk circles around any viper at a leisurely pace. Elapids are faster movers but slow strikers. You can easily push them around and get total control of them with a stick, and they will turn and run after a few bluffs anyhow. They're just not that scary, and they're not interested in biting people unless they're suddenly surprised at close range or cornered. Bluffing is the name of the game in the ophidian world, and they do as much of that as possible to avoid direct contact with a person. Quote: People can move a hell of a lot faster than snakes over a much longer distance, and their psychology is not nearly as predictable. I agree with your assessment if you are talking about a person. They're the truly dangerous species, and you need to give them a lot more physical space and caution. Choosing to escalate the level of violence in any situation is a potentially risky thing and it increases the chance for more people (including bystanders) to get hurt. It's something that is worth thinking seriously about before doing. Many situations can be resolved safely without any violence. In my experience, there are no snake situations that really require violence. Unlike a human, snakes are much too easy to move around or to get total control of. It's just not that hard. Quote: A snake that you scare off is actually not all that likely to turn up again in the same area and bother anyone else. Females holding their territory can be an exception, but the vast majority of the nuisance snakes I remove from urban areas are wandering males. The girls don't generally venture into town, and the boys are easily shifted from their movement patterns by a single encounter. These dynamics may be different outside of North America, especially if you're looking at a rural village where there is an indigenous population including females in the immediate area. Quote: Well to each their own, but it's my hope that some folks might be willing to learn a bit about snakes and how to deal with them calmly and safely with nobody needing to get hurt. If a little bitty gal like me can manage, I'm sure that anyone can learn how to do it without much fuss. | |||
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Napalm? Why does everybody here insist on doing things the hard way - think "riding mower" This way, ya don't have to reseed the lawn...Toolmaker | |||
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Quote: In Viet Nam, the standard removal tool for a sniper in a tree (amateurs use trees and towers, not professionals) was a million dollars' worth, or so, of artillery. An overreaction? It depends on your perspective. "One-step" snakes are myths? Indeed. All those dead guys throughout the years must have been wrong. Quote: "Well, there you go again." I just absolutely don't have time in life-threatening situations, and I've had my share off and on over the years, to reflect on life and all its mysteries before I formulate a plan of action. I don't always have time to work up a decision matrix and choose the best course of action. I LIKE using overwhelming force to defeat foes and potential foes. My name isn't Jack O'Connor. My feeling is, don't use tin snips when a chainsaw will work just fine. Quote: It's that "likely" word that I don't care for, you see. Quote: Ma'am, with all due respect, I'm not inclined to pick up a given snake to see whether or not it has a penis. Quote: We aren't disagreeing at all here. I have learned how to deal with snakes "calmly and safely with nobody needing to get hurt." Napalm. Very small thermonuclear devices. Flame throwers. I assure you, I can call in an airstrike while remaining perfectly calm... and, you'll be happy to know, I'll be completely safe while doing so. Russ | |||
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Quote: I've read more than one report of envenomation caused by a mower flinging a decapitated snake head into a person. Not a recommended tactic if you can avoid it. An envenomation caused by a decapitated or otherwise mortally injured snake is guaranteed to be a bad one, as autonomic nerve reflexes will dump the entire venom gland load. A live snake is usually more conservative with their valuable venom and will deliver a dry warning bite more often than not. | |||
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Quote: See? SEE?! Quote: Just goes to show, it's like I've said for years. "Live conservatives, dead liberals." Works for me. Russ | |||
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Quote: Sure. From my perspective a snake is a small, weak little thing that poses no threat unless you step on it or reach for it bare handed. It's very easy to catch. Quote: People can and do die from snakebite, though the fatality rate in the United States is something like 5 to 8 people a year and most of those are what are known in the medical profession as complications. Alcohol and drugs factor in a lot of these complications, as do inadvisable home remedies and religious snake handlers who refuse any treatment. In other countries, mortality rates are much higher. But what doesn't happen is people being bitten, walking one step and then dying. It's a little more complicated than that. In Vietnam specifically, the snake that earned a reputation as the "five step snake" is Trimeresurus albolabris, the common green bamboo pit viper. Why? Because there were a hell of a lot of them, and because they tended to hang out in the bushes at face level and a lot of people got hit in the throat. Swelling from a throat bite certainly could be fatal because it closes the airway, and being hit in a highly vascular area wouldn't help much either. But the LD-50 score on albolabris venom is relatively weak, and most of my friends who keep these common and attractive snakes have not bothered seeking any medical treatment for their bites to the fingers or the hand. They get a hell of a swelling and some black necrotic tissue, which might or might not leave a scar. The venom doesn't cause human fatality except under the circumstances outlined - which was of course the circumstances that our GI's were being bitten. In other countries, "one step snakes" supposedly exist, and some of them are not even venomous st all - it's just local mythology. Others are indeed venomous, but the real medical story of what happens in an envenomation by that species is a lot more complicated (and happens over more time) than "one step". There are only a few circumstances where death or apparent death by snake venom would be relatively quick. Anaphylaxis and a direct hit to the vein would be those circumstances. Most envenomations are subcutaneous due to the angle of penetration, even those by the relatively longer fanged pit vipers. Some viper envenomations are intramuscular. Almost none are intravenous; the odds are overwhelmingly against that. But it does happen, and in this circumstance the bitten victim is likely to be in very deep trouble within minutes. Quote: You see a snake as a foe. I see it as an easily captured animal with unique biology that makes it valuable to science and medicine. A lot of people owe their lives to drugs that had their beginnings in snake venom or snake venom assisted research. Quote: Snakes have two penises actually. The structure is called a hemipenes, and in many species the bulge is clearly visible just distal to the cloaca when you are looking at the tail. Aren't you jealous?  Quote: You seem to have forgotten about the snake. It's a real shame to hurt a small animal that might save your life, or the life of a friend, no? http://www.snakegetters.com/slides/2venom.html Better to call a snake collector to come get the little critter so that it will do good instead of harm. | |||
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You guys can learn a lot from this lady. I have been monitoring her posts for a bit and she is accurate on her biology. At my age, I am not a candidate for boyfriend status, but she is an interesting lady with slightly different ideas about what is cool and what isn't. Personally, I prefer dogs and cats for pets, but have handled a snake or two during my thirty years of teaching biology and working as a boy scout leader. I don't kill snakes just because they are snakes. I much prefer moving them from areas where they might present a danger to children to areas where they probably won't. The only snake I have killed in the past forty years was with my car and it was unavoidable. Having said that, I don't handle poisonous snakes unless there is no alternative. By the way, my wife has less fear of them than I do. Stick around, snakegetters. I enjoy your posts, and even a 62-year-old grandpappy can learn a few things from you. | |||
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Quote: Well no, actually. Why do you ask? Would you be jealous of a snake having two vaginas? Russ | |||
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Quote: I must admit that a limerick about the man from Nantucket comes to mind here. ROFL Also there is a bumper sticker that says "Snake lovers do it twice as good". The only people who get the joke of course are other herpetologists. | |||
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Quote: That's what they told me about my art-appreciation teacher... an otherwise-sweet lady who had a fascination for the works of Picasso. All I saw was a guy with a serious drug problem. A rose is a rose and a snake is a snake. I have no interest in herpetology. I'm not interested in sparing "good" snakes. I couldn't differentiate between "good" snakes and "bad" snakes... which is entirely subjective and dependent on circumstances. I think it's accurate to say that I will treat all the snakes of the world -- to include Democrats -- with great disdain. I freely admit to being grateful for all the wonderful things snakes have done to better my life -- medical research, et cetera. "Snakes of the world, thank you." That said, I'll terminate every one of them in my path with extreme prejudice. That's just me. Too many westerns, perhaps. All those cowboy films with guys shooting rattlesnakes on sight. I can't recall one single John Wayne movie where the Duke said "Whoa, hold up there, pilgrim! That snake ain't botherin' ya any. Why, them rattlers are right-useful snakes. Holster that hogleg and leave that snake alone." Nope, never happened. Russ | |||
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Okay, I don't get it. Someone PM me with said prose. All I recollect is something like "There once was a man from Nantucket"... and then, I think, something about a bucket. That's it. Tanith, as for the bumper sticker... well, there's a visual without the previous knowledge of which I was blissfully happy.  Russ | |||
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Quote: Yeah, but do ya have to brumate me for so damned long?? | |||
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Got the Nantucket PM you sent. Quite enlightening. Thanks... I think.  Russ | |||
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Kinda scary, eh?! Haven't thought about that one since I was a lad. Now its stuck in me 'ead and the visual is a bit much | |||
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Have we gotten off the subject of African hunting here? I've had snakes for years. I have never had nor have any plans in the future of owning a hot herp. The "safe" variety has bitten me frequently enough to convince me of that. While I have handled several Cottonmouths and Copperheads safely, I don't recommend it. Hot herps should only be relegated to those who know what the hell they're doing. Period. Otherwise, handling a venomous snake is like handing a cocked, loaded, pistol to a child--its only a matter of time till someone gets hurt. I don't go out of my way to kill or maim snakes and I don't agree with those who do. The fear of snakes is learned behavior. All the little kids who used to bring me baby copperheads when I worked up at the pet shop didn't know the difference; they had to be taught to keep their distance. The snakes, alligators, and the other dangerous animals I've run across in my neck of the woods have mostly left me alone because I've been pretty busy doing the same. Every poisonous snake I've ever had to kill was trying to get away from me. I don't go out of my way to invade their universe and likewise, I've never had a snake go out of its way to invade mine. I spend alot of time in the woods and don't have any problem with the local wildlife. Snakes seem to be pretty nonconfrontational. At least until you start jacking with them. I understand that the venomous ones can hurt me and I go out of my way to leave them alone. All God's creatures have a place; give snakes a break, eh? Everyone is entitled to their opinion; this is just my $.02. Call me weird but, I also have a pet Tarantula, Ms. Lucille, who is a very large and docile native texas tarantula. A good pet for someone on the go--low maintaince and cheap to feed. On a different note, it seems the harder I look for them, the scarcer they are. I'm currently snakeless and searching high and low for a young speckled kingsnake. I'll find one sooner or later, hopefully... | |||
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Ladies and Gentlemen, If you hunt Africa often enough, you WILL come across snakes. Here are a few occasions this happened to me. We followed some elephants for a few hours, and then caught up with them just before midday. We were stadning down wind of them not more than 50 yards, behind a tree. The bark was peeling off that tree, and someone caught my eye in that crack. I looked down, and say a green snake's head, looking straight at me, less than 10 inches away. I just ignored it, and we went back to looking at the elephants. One of which we shot a few minutes later. On another occasion, we were trying to get close to a few waterbuck feeding at the bank of the Lake Kariba. We were crawling on our hands and knees. And every now and then we would stop. As we stopped, with my PH a few inches ahead of me, a light brown snake slithered between us and went under a rock. I told my PH about it. "Leave the bloody snake alone and just shoot that waterbuck" was all he said. Another time we were following buffalo, and while walking, a puff adder walked right between me and the PH. After we shot the buffalo, I told him about the snake. And asked him if he had seen it. He said "I don't bother with snakes" I said "what happens if a puff adder bites you?" He said "You jump up and down a few time, geta sore foot for a few hours and that is it" I said "it does not kill you?" He said "It might eventually, but I will make sure it dies before me" | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Buying A Puff Adder?????????????
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