anything over 375 that you can shoot well bigger is not always better. If you shoot a 375 well but a 458 not as well chose the 375

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
My rifles are .375 Ruger, .416 ruger and Searcy .470
If I had to pick, it would be the .416 Ruger, a killer that thing.

We're gonna find out if Dave is right or not? Thanks to him, I've gone against ALL of my common sense, and will not rely totally on my .375 RUM this year.

2Barrels here on AR was kind enough to sell me his custom .416 Ruger, so I will give it a go, and see if Dave is right?? You better be right Dave, or else

I'll bet Dave will be proven right Aaron. I don't have much use for any 375 unless my kids or wife want to shoot something, but the 416s strike me as the true allround performer on DG with the ability to also handle all your PG needs.

Significantly more energy, frontal area, and sectional density, than the 375 (speaking H&H) and usually a better BC as well allowing surprisingly similar trajectories between the 416 and 375.

Ann,

The Zastava I have coming will have the same floorplate release as your's. How do you like that one versus an in-the-bow release?

After owning a pile of big bores, I've settled on a 9.5 pound 416 Remington with Talley mounts and a Trijicon 1x4 30MM scope.

The problem with a person saying a particular rifle is the "best" rifle for him is that very few people have hunted with enough different rifles in enough different calibers to ever say this [bolt action, double rifle, single shot, automatic, etc]chambered in [.338,.375,.416,.423,.458,.470,.500] is the best game rifle for me. I have fine rifles in all the express rifle calibers and have shot them all at game, much of it dangerous game. But I have never hunted with a double. I might completely change my mind about hunting with bolt action rifles if I owned even one double. I think it is difficult to say a particular type of rifle or caliber of rifle is the best for you unless you have hunted with a lot of different rifles and hunted a lot of different kinds of game in a lot of different kinds of country. When I went to CAR I took a .375 and a .300 H&H. I would never take this combination to Tanzania unless I specifically was not hunting buffalo or elephant. I would not hesitate taking the same combination back to CAR. The best game rifle to me is what rifle do I have in my collection that best suits me for what I'm hunting and where I'm hunting it.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
My rifles are .375 Ruger, .416 ruger and Searcy .470
If I had to pick, it would be the .416 Ruger, a killer that thing.

We're gonna find out if Dave is right or not? Thanks to him, I've gone against ALL of my common sense, and will not rely totally on my .375 RUM this year.

2Barrels here on AR was kind enough to sell me his custom .416 Ruger, so I will give it a go, and see if Dave is right?? You better be right Dave, or else

Aaron, why buy a 416 Ruger, when you now own a 416 RUM? Regards, AIU

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
My .375H&H Whitworth! Yes, I customized it!



Hi Ann,
Thats a nice rifle, what's the length of pull? It looks to have been shortend.
I have a bog standard Ruger African in 375 Ruger with a Limbsaver pad, Millet rings with a Leupy 2.5 Ultralight, it weighs 8lbs 10 oz, it fits me fine, it could have been made for me
Gordon.

My favourite has been a 425Magnum Express by Westley Richards. A very nice rifle to hunt with and a real pleasure to shoot;

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
Ann,

The Zastava I have coming will have the same floorplate release as your's. How do you like that one versus an in-the-bow release?

It hasn't caused me any issue so seems fine.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
My .375H&H Whitworth! Yes, I customized it!



Hi Ann,
Thats a nice rifle, what's the length of pull? It looks to have been shortend.
I have a bog standard Ruger African in 375 Ruger with a Limbsaver pad, Millet rings with a Leupy 2.5 Ultralight, it weighs 8lbs 10 oz, it fits me fine, it could have been made for me
Gordon.

Gordon,

Thanks for the compliment. Yes, the LOP is shortened but just to a girlish 13". The Decelerator pad was an add on. I had the barrel and stock fore end shortened as well. I added real ebony to the end cap and cross bolt plugs.

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:
anything over 375 that you can shoot well bigger is not always better. If you shoot a 375 well but a 458 not as well chose the 375

This is it in a nutshell. However, the question remains, how do you go about determining what you shoot well. If heavy recoil bothers you, it will almost surely affect your shooting. My solution to that problem was to practice almost exclusively with reduced loads, using full power loads only to sight in with and to check performance.

When I killed my first elephant with my .505, I had probably fired no more than 50 full power loads through it, but I had shot it hundreds of times with reduced loads, to the point that my handling was completely instinctive. On a walk around my farm,I would select something to shoot at, a rock, a tree, a fence post, bring the rifle to my shoulder at the same time releasing the safety, and find myself looking down the sights at the object I intended to shoot. The shot would follow immediately.

Based on my own experience, recoil is never noticed when shooting at dangerous game. When the body is not tensed in anticipation of recoil, the effect is entirely different from that caused by deliberately aiming at a target and squeezing off a shot. I once fired my .505 with full power loads four times in less than ten seconds and suffered no ill effects at all. I submit that this is a universal experience.

The secret is loading your own ammunition and making use of cheap lead bullets in your practice. For this reason, the .45 caliber is perhaps the best choice, because of the profusion of lead bullets available, but there sources for most other calibers as well, or you can cast your own.

Limiting your practice to factory loads is counterproductive from two standpoints. One is that you are trying to achieve accuracy while trying to avoid the results of heavy recoil. The other is that you could fire many times the number of shots for the same cash expenditure using reloads, whether of reduced or full power.

Whatever your choice or rifle and caliber, total familiarity with it is of utmost importance.

I love my m70 375. It has done all I ask of it. However, if I ever get to hunt elephant it will not be coming along. S for me, there isn't really a single best dangerous game rifle.

Very fun and interesting subject. First, I am the biggest fan of the Winchester M70, I don't even get a mild interest in anything else. Winchester, or stay at home. Not that other rifles are not as good, just the way I am about this issue. I had always hunted with the traditional 24 inch M70, 10 lbs, long and cumbersome. In 2005 I had a little altercation with a hippo in Tanzania, Winchester M70 458 Lott 24 inch barrel sorted it out for me, but during this little altercation it dawned on me how really unwieldy, long, heavy, cumbersome this rifle was, and is for this sort of situation. There had to be something that handled better than this!

As soon as I got home, with the spark of an idea from one of my life long friends, we went to work on this. The B&M series of rifles and cartridges got it's start from that. Since 2006 I have gone to the field with nothing else. There are now 6 cartridges in the B&M series built on Winchester M70 WSM actions. The Original 50 B&M-true .500 caliber, not .510, next was 458, 416, 9.3, 375, and the last one just last year the 475. All of these have base barrel lengths of 18-20 inches max, 50, 475, 458 excellent at 18 inches, 416 and down best at 20 inches. The 18 inch guns are 38.5 inches overall length and depending on the stock, Ultimate or Wood from 6.5 lbs to 8.5 lbs. They handle like nothing you have ever been to the field with. The 20 inch guns, same basic weights, 2 inches longer. Case capacities are equal to 458 Winchesters, big difference is that performance is equal to and in many cases better than 458 Winchester, except you get that performance in a much smaller handier package.

Later I did a Super Short series, 50, 475, 458, all smaller rifles WSSM actions, 16 inch barrels. These do not have the power levels for the heavies, and I do not consider them DGRs, but they are very neat little guns, very suitable for bear and other assorted such critters.

Something around 2008 or so I did the big cartridge 500 MDM--again, .500 caliber not .510. Based on the 375 RUM case at a full 2.8 inches on the Winchester M70s that were done in 300 RUM. I started with 21 inch barrels, and while this was considerably bigger rifle than I really wanted, it is a small rifle for it's capabilities. Some of the guys have taken their 500 MDMs to 20 inches now, and only last week I took one of mine down to 19 inches and I am getting really good performance with the 19 inch barrel, loosing only about 50 fps with the 2 inches, and the 500 MDM has plenty of horse power to spare. The 19 inch 500 MDM weighs a full 10 lbs with the scope and sling added, and is 40 inches overall length. Not too bad, and it does handle very well. I am taking it along next week for some thin skinned game, nothing big, just some fun shooting.

Every time I take one of my 24 inch guns out to the range to do any sort of test work or test load, I wonder how in the hell I carried or even why I carried such a thing for so many years--now they seem like big muskets to me. So these are my favorites and I will never go back to anything else longer or bigger again, they are all retired and sit around gathering dust now. A few of the rifles.

Nice collection of rifes Michael.

One of these days, after I find someone to build a 600OK on my SS PH action, I'll have to get one of those stubby guns you like so much.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Nice collection of rifes Michael.

One of these days, after I find someone to build a 600OK on my SS PH action, I'll have to get one of those stubby guns you like so much.

Doc

Don't do it! You will be spoiled after that, and the rest of your rifles will sit in the safe like all of my 22-24 inch guns.

Thanks
Michael

Here's my version of the short dangerous game rifle, my .505 SRE on a P14 Enfield action, 22" Buhmiller barrel, 2150 fps with a 570 grain Kynoch bullet in a shortened .460 Weatherby case. This was in Tanzania, in the Selous, in 1972. Three buffalo in about 30 seconds.

There is a PH in Africa who has a 18 inch 458 Win Mag rifle on a BRNO action with synthetic stock, and the whole rifle is dull black. He uses this rifle to go into the weeds to sort out wounded buffalo and lion. His trackers have dubbed this shorty with the name “BLACK BITCH” ! He uses full house loads in it, and he says the muzzle blast lights up the countryside, but it is almost as easy to use in tight cover close quarters as a handgun, but far more effective.
I have always liked short barrels and big bores for tight cover use. In fact I have a double rifle chambered for 458RCBS that I’ve been thinking of cutting the barrels back to 16 inches and mounting a Surefire combat light under the barrels and ghost rings sights. Sometimes we have to go into the thick stuff with 200 and 300 pound wild boar on a blood trail at night on our DRSS anaual get-togethers down at 4K ranch. This would be a good rifle to follow-up bear of leopard as well.

...........................................................................

THis is my Safaririfle:


Ruger Safari Magnum, caliber 375 H&H Mag

Michael458, those are some beautiful rifles and I really like the idea of a carbine type bolt in a .500 caliber for DG in the brush. What does something like the .500 MDM run in $USD ?

Thanks,


jfm

Thanks jfm. The rifles are a dream to work with and carry. For a 500 MDM one has to have a Winchester M70 action that was built for 300RUM. Winchester did a lot of modifications to that action to house the bigger cartridge. Of course, the 500 MDM is a 375RUM blown out to .500. Perfect match, magazine, and bolt. It is not an easy job to convert a standard Winchester. SSK Industries has the reamers and do all the B&M rifles. Standard conversion to 500 MDM and other B&M cartridges runs $1200-$1400 depending on your specs with the NECG Front Barrel band and rear sight--$300 alone. 500 MDM requires one of the Accurate Innovations stocks with the aluminum chassis to handle the recoil--one can spend as much on wood as you wish, and under most circumstances is more than the conversion itself. Mine have XXEnglish and they run $1200 or so with standard hand checkering, I have some of the stocks with some very nice checkering that cost $700 alone for the checkering. So on the wood, you can spend as much as you want and more!

The 500 MDM is a bit finicky with its handloading. I do not recommend the 500 MDM for a novice loader. Another issue I have with it is head stamped brass, which I am near to giving up on. I had Quality Cartridge do a run of 500 MDM and while it can be used, it can only be used when brand new to the full potential of the cartridge. It was made from basic 404 brass, which is .004 smaller than the parent cartridge, 375RUM. Once fired and reworked, it has expanded too much at that point, and other loads with those cases at full potential become scratchy opening the bolt. Last year I contracted with Horneber in Germany to do a run, and all of that came out far too soft and is not able to handle the pressure at all. In fact, the Horneber brass is so soft I can't get the 500 anything close to even mid level potential, so it has proven useless. For head stamp issues I have marked all my barrels 375RUM/500MDM, and as far as travel outside our borders I think that will handle those issues. I also have my Customs forms done the same so they match as well. Although 25+ safaris I have never once had head stamps checked and matched--it does not take but one time to be the first time, and be a problem.

Once a 500 MDM is up and running, it does the job great. For most everyone I recommend the 50 B&M over the 500 MDM because of it's ease of hand loading, and head stamped brass is available and works in that cartridge fine. While the 50 does not churn the power of the 500, it is still more than enough with the bullets that we have available for it. In it's 18 inch barrel it can run a 500 BBW#13 Solid at 2150 fps--it will penetrate an elephant head completely from front or side, exit broadside shots, and travel as far as 7 feet of elephant from the rear, how much more do you need?

Michael