Hello to this most interesting forum. I would appreciate some advice. I'm off to Cameroon in February for Derby Eland, Roan etc. It will be my second trip there. During the first attempt i wounded an Eland and spent four demanding days on the trail with no success. It was an experience I do not wish to repeat. I was using 400 grain Barnes Triple shock in a 416 Remington, velocity around 2380. I have used this combo with success in the past on Cape Buffalo and other large animals. So I 'm wondering if I should consider more velocity. I have a very reliable 338-378 WBY and a new and virtually untried CZ in 416Rigby. I realize that marksmanship is more important than bullets but I truly believed that I had made a good shot. Thanks and happy holidays.

Not trying to pour salt in the wound, I would suggest a .375 H&H using a 300 grain TSX or TBBC or A-Frame as your hunting load. Use a factory load is fine.

Further, I would suggest firing at least 300 rounds off hand in various positions at every conceiveable target out to 200 yards. When you can hit an 8" target 10 times in a row offhand or off sticks - you are ready.

Velocity is not the problem, accuracy is. If you made a good shot, the eland would be dead in 100 yards or less - a good shot defined as a direct hit in the lungs/heart or spine.

Forget a different caliber - shoot what you can shoot the same every time.

Go kill an eland!!!!!!!

Your .416 Remington is perfectly adequate, unless you've lost all confidence in it. My guess would be that you either misjudged your shot or you had a rare failure of the Triple-shock bullet.

What was your gun sighted in at? When I hunted Cameroon none of my shots were over 75yds.
I made two bad shots that I thought were good. Both times my shots were high 4-6" high. I over judged the distance and forget about my gun was sighted in 3" high at a hundred. Lucky my trackers could track anything for days!.
Good luck!

Gentlemen-Thanks very much for the helpful replies.
Vinny-Thanks and good advice. I do intend to practice more for this trip. Expect some complacency may have crept into my approach. I like to place clay targets at random ranges for offhand practice. Don't have time to break out a 375H&H for this trip but will certainly consider it for the future.

Jeffive-Thanks I think I misjudged the shot. Will stick to the same outfit

Robert-Thanks. I have always sighted in 3" high at a hundred. i believe that the shot may have been too high. The Eland was about a hundred yards away and he dropped like a stone when I fired. He stayed on the ground for about twenty seconds and then ran off dragging his hind quarters. There was a good trail initially and he left the herd so we were optimistic (at first). We saw him briefly on the second day, running fast and looking healthy. As time went by he seemed to gain strength and eventually rejoined the herd. I was very impressed with the trackers ability. I believe I will sight in dead on at a hundred.

All the best Chetroy

At the risk of angering the lovers of TSX bullets I would switch to Swift A Frames or North Forks. I have had a couple of bad experiences with the TSX bullets not expanding.

Hmmm... sounds like the bullet passed under the spine and a bit far back if I had to venture a guess. I agree with others on the same familiar rifle with a 100 yard zero. Rarely in my African trips have I had to push a bullet much farther than 150 yards. Certainly there are exceptions like Namibia or mountains or plains in the RSA, but for most of my hunting on the dark continent, the 100 yard zero was spot on. Good hunting and good luck on the return!

quote:

Posted 26 December 2008 22:18 Hide Post
At the risk of angering the lovers of TSX bullets I would switch to Swift A Frames or North Forks. I have had a couple of bad experiences with the TSX bullets not expanding.

Thanks-I've been a Barnes fan for a long time but maybe it is time for (at least trying) something new


Posted 26 December 2008 23:42 Hide Post
Hmmm... sounds like the bullet passed under the spine and a bit far back if I had to venture a guess. I agree with others on the same familiar rifle with a 100 yard zero. Rarely in my African trips have I had to push a bullet much farther than 150 yards. Certainly there are exceptions like Namibia or mountains or plains in the RSA, but for most of my hunting on the dark continent, the 100 yard zero was spot on. Good hunting and good luck on the return!
Thanks, I will certainly go with the hundred yard zero. I had long shots aplenty in the Northern Cape but Cameroon is mostly short range work. Thanks again Chet

Sorry to hear of your bad luck with your last Eland.
I had a similar situation with a Buff last Oct, but with a 416 Solid.
Another option would be to use a Woodleigh soft as I have found previously that harder bullets like A- Frames just shoot through with little damage if little bone is hit.

Chet,

Well! I hunted along the Faro River in Jan '07 and found the terrain to be mostly open forest interspersed with big open areas once you got back a short distance from the river. A 300 yard shot is definitely possible there and I killed my eland at 250+. I used a 375 H&H with a 270 TSX and 2.5x8 variable scope. That combo seemed to be about perfect for red duiker at 50 feet or the eland across the salt pan.

I would think that the Rigby and the big Weatherby might be a little heavy to carry for those long eland walks. Your 416 Remington with a 350 gr bullet might be just right though. I've killed 4 eland and the LD did not die any harder than the rest so the horsepower is not a huge factor in my estimation.

Good luck!

Mark

Thanks OZ and Mark. Ozhunter-Am thinking about swift A frames but Woodleigh is a famous alternative. Don't need a real tough bullet for Eland. Mark- Thanks for the info. I very much enjoyed your article about the hunt with Faro West. I was on the banks of the Mayo Oldiri river with Mayo Oldiri Safaris. I have only taken one other Eland (in Zimbabwe) and it was a slam dunk. I really enjoyed the hunting in Cameroon although it is a lot of walking. Thanks again guys

I like the Swift A-frames. I took a 450 Dakota to Zim three weeks ago and shot a very nice Buffalo with it. My PH maneuvered me to a really clear shot at 165 yds. One 500gr A-frame at 2370MV anchored him. He never moved 10 feet after the first shot. I shot a Lyman 520gr cast bullet all year getting ready. It clocked 2250fps, and was a great 20-30 rounds a week practice load. The recovered A-frame weighed 468gr, and mushroomed to an oval shape that measured .690"X.931". More gun than I needed, perhaps, but I'm insecure about that sort of thing.
Good Hunting!!

Rich
Buffalo Killer

Sighting 3" high at a hundred yards seems to be a common practise for visiting hunters, but I think generally way too high.
The issue has been debated here before, but I understand that North American deer have higher spines than those in Africa and so more margin for error, which could account for the habit.
I live in an area requiring regular long shots, but not one of my rifles prints more than 2" high. Your PH will advise best.

Thanks to Idaho sharpshooter and Karoo. Rich, the 450Dakota sounds awesome and you've taken the time to practice. I like to shoot groundhogs with the 416 Rem. Was it Hemingway who said "use enouhg gun"? Thanks Karoo-I'm going to zero dead on at a hundred

From your description I agree that you most likely shot high and the bullet passed over the spine. I made the same unfortunate shot on a big Kudu in '05. He dropped at the shot, jumped up and headed for the hills. When he fell he was in a small depression and we never saw him get up. We tracked him over many kilometers never to be seen again...

Chet,

I specifically avoided reading the other responses so they would not influence me and because I am tired. I just got back this am from a safari to Cameroon so my advice is at least the most recent if not most helpful.

First I do not believe you actually need more velocity. But only you can answer wether it will help you mentally.

I believe you did not make a good shot. My research and 2 dead eland (including one Lord Derby killed on 12/30/2008) indicates that eland is not a tough animal to kill or at least slow down to easily finish it off. Roan are tougher by far.

Believe me I have made several "good shots" that have ended in failure so I do speak from painful experience on that.

My advice is any 30 caliber or larger with better than balistic tips in a heavy for caliber bullet will do the trick IF---
1. the hunter can shoot accurately and
2. do so within 5 seconds of being told to do so off shooting sticks or a handy tree etc. and
3 do so under the stress of an eland hunt, extreme heat, fatigue and cost invested. and
4. do so at all ranges up to 300 yards.

Good luck

In 1999 my hunting partner an I decided to test four different bullets on safari and compare results. The test was interesting and the end result was that we were most pleased with the performance of the Swift A-Frame and most unhappy with the Barnes. I have used A-Frames exclusively since and nothing has happened to change my mind.

BTW, my .416Rem with 400 gr A-Frames has produced one shot kills on Eland.

Because I reside in CA, I must now use non-lead bullets in the state - gotta save those Condors, dontchaknow. This basically means using Barnes bullets. Last year 6 of us shot twelve Elk on SRI using the Barnes bullet. My feeling is you tend to get too many pass through shots, especially on close game, where the Barnes fails to open.

When in the CAR (basically not this different from Cameroon) I used 375 Swift A frame and 375 PMP solid. I hitted the LD eland too far back. But the fate of the eland was sealed. The PH hit him in the neck with a 458Lott that just like my bullet d didn't exit. But the eland was gotten.
In fact, as the PH told me the Lord Derby Eland is a sissy and when wounded most of the time he is doomed. Just have a look at LDE pictures and you'll see that many hunters shoot him in any place when the trophy of a lifetime is at hand.

My cousin used a CZ 416 Rigby with the french GPA bullet which is similar to the Barnes X and the eland was DRT.

Both of us also shot roan with no notable troubles.

I second other posters in recommending that you preferably use a easy to carry rifle. LDE hunting entails much much walking, though the first time I hunted him, I killed him after ........15 minutes of spooring, a record.

sight picture & trigger squeeze

Neither of the options you mentioned is better than the other with poor shot placement. On the other hand either would have been perfect with a double lung shot, or heart, etc. Bullet failure is unlikely IMO as a 416 doesn't have to expand much with good shot placement on an eland. The Triple shok and the A frame are both as good as it gets IMO. I do prefer the Aframe below 375 and the triple shok for 375 and above. Some ph's like it for all shots on buff etc, as opposed to softs then solids, this works for me. My 2 cents!

Chet:
You did not make a good shot if you never found him. My advice would be to leave the .416 home this time and take something smaller...and lighter. These hunts involve lotsa walking and fatigue starts to set in. That combined with adrenaline and the heavier gun weight of the .416, causes lots of hunters to miss on hunts in Central Africa. There is also the added mental factor that you wounded one during your last hunt with the .416, and unless you've truly exorcised that demon, that could cause you to make a poor shot again. It happens-it's hunting, but in your mind you have to treat it as, unacceptable especially on the LDE-one of Africa's greatest trophies.

I'm guessing this failure has haunted you many a day, but you're doing the right thing in going back to redeem yourself. This is what hunting is about-challenging yourself and coming out on top at the end. Sight your gun in dead-on at 100 yards, and aim for the LDE's shoulder. If you perceive the shot to be longer, aim slightly higher. It's easier to aim higher than lower. Too often hunters sight in their rifles too high. They end up shooting high and that's why you see so many spine shots.

As far as bullets go, shoot the one that groups the best from your rifle. Don't get caught up with different brands and manufacturers. Get caught up with accuracy. Shoot the best grouping bullet 100 times from your selected rifle, I recommend a .338, in a variety of positions before you head out. During practice sessions keep a picture of the LDE nearby, so you can look at it. Tape it to your gunstock. Stare at it, then at your target 100 yards away, then back at the image of the eland and then fire your gun. This will help you "visualize" the kill shot. Think about that big 1600-pound monster, bucking like a rodeo bronco when your bullet pierces his heart. Don't even ever for one second think about missing again. If you think about missing you will miss.

Finally, give me a call at 312 226 4047. I would like to send you a gift to further bolster your shooting confidence. Every member on this board is pulling for you and we want to see your photo with the "Lord" upon your return. This time you will prevail in "The Royal Showdown." Go get em buddy!

Bwana Moja

Mark,

well said. Get the big dude. Savor the experience.

I hunted cameroon and took LDE, roan, kob, and others all with a 9.3 X 62. therefore, any of the calibers you mention will do the job in spades. Zero in at 100 yards for Cameroon. I never had a shot over 150. Have fun.