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If Google is using drones to hunt for poachers in Africa and since drones are getting smaller and less expensive how long will it be until safari operators will use them to locate elephants or the buffalo herd before you leave camp? http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2...hunting-drone-spoof/ ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | ||
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I'm thinking you and I have the same concerns on our mind. This is a link the the thread I started earlier in the week about hunting whitetails with GPS eartags and a receiver. http://forums.accuratereloadin...941052581#4941052581 | |||
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The drone nowadays is similar to Beryl Markham and Finch-Hatton in the old days. And FInch-Hatton, at least, knew it was in the end a bad thing for the game. He was perhaps the most perspicacious hunter in early Africa in regards to long-term conservation. The less work a person puts into something the less that something is worth. Just my opinion. | |||
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Spectacular way to gain footage; http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...bedded&v=Qchy7BVid9Q | |||
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You know, we are all a bit funny when it comes to this subject of how far are we going to allow technology to help us hunt. But, at the end of the day, each of us is going to do what makes him comfortable with - regardless of what we claim. In my own experience in hunting Afica, I have had some hunts on a fenced farm in South Africa that were more difficult than some hunts I have had in Zimbabwe and Tanzania in the wild. At my age - 63 now, there is no way I can hunt without a scope. Can we take that as a negative? I have shot dangerous game, elephant at 55 yards, buffalo at over 300 yards. Because there was no way we could have gotten any closer. This, in some people's minds, is unacceptable. I have jumped out of the truck and shot some animals. Is that not acceptable? I am using a high power rifle designed to kill at long range. Is that not acceptable? We have sat on baits, and waited for an animals to come to feed and shot them. Is that not acceptable? Where does one draw the line? I assume each of us has a different outlook on this. I have friend who has a heart problem, and cannot walk very far. He absolutely loves hunting. While hunting in South Africa, where he could shoot from the back of the truck, he said that was the best hunt he had ever had. | |||
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Beryl admittedly "scouted" for elephants by air -- not cool. I agree the new drone technology is not kosher for hunting, but for anti-poaching -- it's the bee's knees. Just gave me some ideas. | |||
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With, or without, Hellfire missiles?  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Definitly WITH!!! LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Four or five years ago Tanzania was searching for pilots who would fly the little micro flite sail planes to spot poachers. I said if the would allow me to mount a couple of full auto BARS on the wing struts I'd be happy to fly one. With the poachers carrying AK-47s I don't think that would have been a long term job, in an unarmed microflite plane.  The un-manned drone is a much better idea, but not for hunting. ...........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Saeed's post above asks lots of questions, and the only answer is, I say if it bothers your conscience simply do not do it. However there is an old saying that applies here. "When in Rome do as the Romans do!" Just let others do as they see fit as long as it is legal where you hunt, and it doesn't bother you, and let others tend to their own business! The game management makes the rules in their countries as to what you are allowed to do, not what you have to do. ..................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac's absolutely right. If it's legal where you are hunting and you're comfortable with it, have at it and no one should criticize. You don't have to take the shot if you don't like the situation. Several years ago, I walked away from a buffalo spotted -- not exactly from the truck, but almost immediately after leaving the truck to track. Just wasn't my cup of tea, but I wouldn't criticize anyone who chose to take that shot. I might like to fly one of those ultra lights -- is that offer still open? | |||
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If one does not like the use of drones for hunting, then maybe one should also leave the two way,LRF,binoculars & spotting scope at home, ...cause they are known to save hunters much guesswork and unnecessary leg work. A drones eye type view of your hunting ground(and any quarry you may spot) is one thing ... .. being put into a remote LZ in such territory and then treking out in an attempt to be successful at actual hunting, is another. You think it would then be an easy [unfair/unsporting?] hunt, just because you may have spotted some potential game from the air some miles back? | |||
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I have no problem with criticizing legislation as I see fit. "I remember the days of slavery"..... I have used RC Heliocraft with Livestream video for the purpose of doing arial surveys of feral horses. During this work, for fun, we looked for a large bull elk know to be in the area. The elk was located with the helio. Keeping the RC craft on the elk, it was a simple task to sneak in for a look, well within a comfortable rifleshot. The RC aircraft's effectiveness was no less than to have been hunting with a spotter plane.... With technology rapidly advancing, individual jurisdictions need to be pro-active in introducing and promoting legislation to prevent un-acceptable hunting techniques before the practice becomes established. The old horse and barn analogy.... | |||
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Most western states and canadian provinces have laws that don't allow for flying the same day you're hunting. I would think that this would fall under those laws. Why would it be OK to fly an unmanned drone, but not have someone in the aircraft? A drone would be every bit as effective as flying, landing and then taking an animal, maybe more so IMO. | |||
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Trax, I disagree there is no unnecessary leg work in hunting! That is just as much a part of hunting as shooting! There is nothing more inspiring to me than to walk along following a tracker who has spent his life learning his craft. The word "HUNTING" simply means "SEARCHING", and if you already know where the quary is, where is the "HUNTING"? .......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I guess the real question is "can that thing gut em & skin em"? JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Walking Buffalo, I'm assuming your post seemed as nonsensical to you when you sobered up as it did to me. If not, I wasn't talking about legislation or drones. So I'm not sure what you are ranting about. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37: Trax, I disagree there is no unnecessary leg work in hunting! That is just as much a part of hunting as shooting! Of course legwork is part of hunting[to greatly varying degrees depending on the type of hunt], however, hunters already use various technological means to reduce the amount of guesswork,time or effort required to obtain their quarry. ie; - modern centre fires & scopes regularly allow a hunter to greatly reduce the stalking effort [compared to when man used primitive spears or arrows] - spotting scopes & binoculars; to see if there is an animal in the far distance/and if animal in the far distance is worth pursuing, Why not leave the optical devices at home and rely only on more footwork and the unaided human eye? Are hunters that use modern detailed topographic or satellite picture maps & optical-electronic devices,fast modern transport & communication and advantageous information gained by various methods, ...deemed to be gaining an unfair advantage? There is nothing more inspiring to me than to walk along following a tracker who has spent his life learning his craft. The word "HUNTING" simply means "SEARCHING", and if you already know where the quary is, where is the "HUNTING"? Knowing where game is, is considered cheating/unsporting/unfair or not hunting? Personally I dont care if its a drone, aircraft pilot,the local natives on foot, or returning hunters, that have informed me of the quality,abundance or general location of game....I still need to trek, select & stalk the animal. You think simply because you have seen some game from the air, that the stalk/hunt will then be easy/unsporting or unchallenging?..ie; not a 'real' hunt...? Does local natives giving the heads up-information on game in the area make some people feel better about themselves, compared to receiving it from a drone /aircraft based type report? Ted Roosevelt plonked his ass on a horse while natives scouted ahead for potential game. When they found something of worth, they would report back, Roosevelt would then ride to a convenient distance, and dismount for a [relatively] short stalk. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/i...0L._SL500_SS500_.jpg http://imgc.allpostersimages.c...-and-a-dead-lion.jpg | |||
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Man has used every advancement in the past to help him hunt. From rocks, to spears, to arrows to rifles. WE used to walk to walk to our hunting grounds. Then came ships which took months to get to the dark continent. Then came aircraft. Safaris were conducted on foot, with upwards of 100 porters to carry the supplies. Then came the motor car, the high power rifle, the scope, the professional hunter to guide us. When we drive along in Africa and come across someone, we ask them about game animals they might have seen. I bet each of us does things slightly different than anyone else. There is nothing wrong with that, as each one has a choice. Some of us older hunters might not look at using a drone so kindly. But what happens for the new comers? What about all the "trophy hunters" whose sole purpose of hunting is to brag about it? They already send people out to scout and locate the trophy they are after. Then they fly over there and shoot it. Drones would make a perfect sense for those guys. | |||
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Well said Saeed. | |||
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Kidding aside (and that takes some effort for me!), every man has his limit when it comes to what's truly "fair" in fair chase. The test for each of us comes in the heat of the hunt. For me, it's more than just "follow the law." Prostitution is legal in many places, but every single prostitute is another man's daughter, and just because it's legal does not make it right. Put another way, it's like PEDs in sports. For me, it's no excuse to say that "everyone was doing it." No one who's taken them can have any genuine pride in what he may have "accomplished." As an honorable old cowboy once said (well, it was Joel McCrea in Ride The High Country, and that's close enough for me!), all I want is to enter my house justified. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The way some hunters in their machoistic mindset believe they go to do [modern?] battle with DG, ..all through history intelligent people have used scouting techniques to gain advantage over their battle adversary, in order to help achieve a swift campaign-victory. techniques have ranged from as simple as asking/using the locals, using a stationary airship [or bi-plane to scout the battle field, which was a modern thing at the time] now it can be aerial drones. | |||
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I anticipate someone setting up a business using drones to locate 90-plus pound elephants over an area of several countries then selling that information to the trophy hunters on his waiting list. That information would be worth big money. Of course locating big buff or lions would be valuable information also....until they are all gone....which may not take very long. ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | |||
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Okay, I will take the heat for this, but "Pride" is no longer a consideration, success is the be all end all for many people. No trying to tear an icon down, but many folks, regardless of the activity, are firm believers in the philosophy of the great professional football coach, Vince Lombardi who is best remembered for this statement, "Winning Is Not Everything, It Is The Only Thing"! Winning/being successful is something all of us want to do. The sticking point is what are we willing to do to be a winner/successful. As we continually witness in "Professional Sports" that means doing anything necessary, legal or illegal to be a winner. With that said, what is the real difference in the long run, between a remote controlled drone and a network of local individuals that go out and shadow animals for a guide/PH so that a determined $$$$ client can kill that animal. The situation with the "Spider Bull" elk in Utah comes to mind. How does changing the equation from humans doing the surveillance, to a remote controlled machine doing the surveillance, really make a difference in the long run? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Is the trail camera a less effecient form of a drone? 465H&H | |||
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The ones we have are, we can't keep enough fresh batteries in the damn things to keep them working for more than 3 or 4 days at a stretch. My impression of game cams from the past 3 years dealing with them is they are like the weather, unpredictable as hell. We have been using moultries, and it is hell to keep one running. In reality, there is not any real difference between a game cam and an RC Drone, except the drone will provide more accurate info. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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The difference I see is that the trail camera or the natives in the village can let you know where the elephant was. The drone could stay with it for a certain period of time and let you know where it is now. Additionally the drone could circle around the elephant and transmit pictures of its tusks from different angles and heights. ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | |||
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It's great to hear you have sobered up. It's too bad your being uninebriated has the side effect of bewilderment.  ----------------- Who likes the idea of hunting with the help of a spotter plane in the air? Do you wish this practice to be legal? Readilly accessable "Drones" can perform the same function as manned aircraft; locate and maintain contact with the prey while the "Hunter" goes in for the kill. How wonderful!  | |||
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One could argue the footprint is a form of a drone if they wanted - it gives you an animal's sex, age and location at an approximate time if you know what to look for. If I remember right you could not hunt polar bear the same day you flew into an area, the reason I understood was ethical/fair-chase in nature. I'm not sure it's not just a tad bit duplicitous to employ any method at one's disposal to find an animal to kill, yet scream from the mountaintop that hunting is really all about the chase while frequently using quotes from Jose Ortega y Gasset. | |||
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Folks can do anything that's legal (ie. not illegal) that floats their boat. Personally, doing a stalk while looking at a screen to see where my quarry is would not appeal to me, but if I'm not paying for your hunt (and that's one of your safer assumptions), I can't tell you how to hunt. I do, however, reserve the right to snicker behind my hand when you brag about your South African lion or the big tusks the drone found for you. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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No argument from here on that point. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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If you think the drones won't be used by some quasi hunter in the near future, you are naive. We already have trail cameras with live internet links, making them essentially a static drone. Ultrlight aircarft were used for several years in pursuit of mule deer and elk in the mountain west until they were made illegal. "Chute" planes, essentially a parachute with a big fan, were also used. It wouldn't surprise me to learn some have already used drones to spot game, but have kept it quiet for the time being. I personally don't see the excitement or fun in following some drone image to my target animal, but I'm not profiting from killing wildlife, I hunt to enjoy the experience. For me, the experience is the unknown, the physical exertion, and the uncertainty of how the stalk will end. There is abundant evidence that many others have an entirely different definition of hunting. Bill | |||
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