Now Mike and George,

There is a hole in your logic. My latest BB forum thread, has at the time of this posting, 1140 views. Clearly I get some attention on the BB forum. Follow the link.

ASS_CLOWN's latest BB Forum Thread

Can we get back to the serious question at hand. Which is the better DG cartridge, the 45-70 or the 444 Marlin?

ASS_CLOWN

Ok, fine, I'll play.

IF the choice was only the .45-70 or the .444, as in these are the only two rifles available, then the choice would be the .45-70.

Bullet diameter and bullet weight win.

Now George, this is a sincere & serious question. Did you not see the post icon?

Besides they are back to arguing about the 416s on the BB forum, so I figured what the heck. The 416 argument isn't as significant as the 45-70 versus 444 Marlin argument. At least with the 45-70 versus the 444 Marlin you are discussing two different bullet diameters, two different bullet weights (more than likely), two different muzzle velocities, two different Taylor Knock Down numbers, two different penetration index numbers, etc, etc, etc.

With the 416s they are both 400 grains at 2400 fps. Identical really.

So which is better and why for hunting dangerous game (Oops almost typed dangerous fame )? The 45-70 or the 444 Marlin.

ASS_CLOWN

For rogue Armadillos here in Texas, I�ve found that the .45-70 is definitely superior when faced with a determined charge!

-Bob F.

Ass Clown,

Let's pretend for a moment that we are all seriously discussing your topic.

As both 444 and 45-70 are not a dangerous game cartridges, both failing short on energy, the only possible answer to your question should be: "none of them".

On the other side we all know that elephants have been poached with .22 rimfire and we cannot deny that tens of thousand of them have been slaughtered with the 450 Martini-Henry, shooting a 480 grains lead bullet at 1359 fps.

So both calibres are capable of killing DG. Out of the two the 45-70 is a far better choice than the 444 Marlin.

If someone is prepared to pay the costs involved I will have no problem to take all big five with a 45-70, just for fun and without backup, using my handloads in a modern bolt action with 1/10 twist. I will only use 600 grains SWC solids at a very close range.

Hard cast 500 grains bullets are known to penetrate well but 600 grains solids penetrate far better. Unfortunately the long bullets do not stabilize well on the 1/20 twist.

Is this a satisfactory answer to your question?

My vote goes to the 45/70. My brother got this baby on a canned tree stand hunt here in Florida one morning. I don't approve of canned hunts, but he is my brother and I stand by him.

Ass Clown, tell us your thoughts on the subject.

interboat,

I am sorry you feel that way, your loss.

Jayco,
I honestly don't know if you could, I will run a simulation and let you know if it appears to be at all feasible to load the 444 Marlin to those ballistics within a lever action's pressure limits. I think it is possible, but you could be limited to bolt actions.

ASS_CLOWN

Ass Clown, I fear your name put my thoughts in this direction, but why do you prefer a flat point? Don't you think a spitzer would hurt less when the buff shoves it up your rear end?

Regards,
Martin

I would not PREFER either of these, to several firearms in my gunsafe, but assuming these are the only two choices, for dangerous game, and i could handload for them... and in a lever gun

the 45/70... you just can't get the sd from .429 bullets (not out there)

in a bolt gun?
STILL the 45/70, and loaded up fairly hot...

jeffe

I do not have anything to say to anybody with a name like that. Even if he asked an honest question for once.

YOUR CLOWN ASS IS SHOWING AGAIN...YOU SIMPLY NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY.....

WHY DO YOU ASK THESE QUESTION, YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS ANYWAY, EVEN IF YOUR SELDOM RIGHT.

Gentlemen

*** You are ignoring this user ***

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Ray,

Whatever do you mean? This discussion is more realistic than the classic argument about which is better a 416 Rem or 416 Rigby.

Now share you opinion, which is superior for dangerous game and why, the 444 Marlin or the 45-70.

You aren't still upset because I pointed out that your "mild" 375 H&H load was in fact very close to a MAXIMUM load, are you?

ASS_CLOWN

Martin

Where is my popcorn and malt

Cheers,

Andr�

Smallfry, since you asked.

I was considering this. If I loaded the 444 Marlin with a 475 grain hard cast flat point at a muzzle velocity of 1550 fps it would be a better penetrator than the 45-70 loaded with a 540 grain hard cast flat point at 1550 fps.

If the 475 grain 0.429" bullet isn't currently available it is no major deal to get a mold made so that it is!

Those are my thoughts.

ASS_CLOWN

I was poking fun at both, actually. I still say that the 444 Marlin is better than the 45-70, but a 50-110 is better than both!!!

Which brings us back to which is better a 416 Remington Magnum or a 416 Rigby? I say Rigby, because I hunt elk with it and I can get better ballistics than a 30-06 with twice the energy on target.

ASS_CLOWN

According to Hodgdon's #27 Manual the hottest load for the .458 Win Mag with a 400 grain bullet is 2407 fps and for the Hated 45-70 is 2108 fps...299 fps difference.

The Hottest load for the .300 Win Mag is 3042 fps and the Hottest for the tried and proven 30.06 is 2798..244 fps difference.
All with Hogdgons powders.Now if the 45-70 is obsolete then the 30.06 is also.

You guys just hear 45-70 and go bazooka.The 45-70 in a modern Rifle compared to the .458 Win Mag is all but the same as the 30.06 compared to the .300 Win Mag.And we all know the 30.06 can do it all if needed.

Just my thoughts to some that hear the sound or name of 45-70 and all the sudden,It's prehistoric like the 30.06.

Doubt it..........Jayco.

Reading Ass Clowns post has a certain entertainment value, because everyone takes a shot at him.

Perhaps your post should have started like this: Dangerous Game Cartridge or just Dangerous Practice?

And the opening thread reads: I've decided to book my first hunt in the Dark Continent to put to rest a theory of mine. Is it more effective to shoot a tick bird off a buffalos ass with a .22LR or just stay with my trusted .17 cal pellet gun!

The world awaits his return.

Assuming you shot the bullets in a homogenized medium, the 444 marlin might have an edge, however the edge would not be great and you could shoot hundreds of buffalo and never be able to prove it. Quite frankly they both can penetrate but just take to damn long to kill. Besides� how much penetration does a guy need?...we all know the 45-70 can already shoot through 4 buffalo if it is shot out of a Marlin slow enough.

This is somewhat related� the other day, for the very first time I held a Marlin �Guide Gun� and what a joke it was. I have seen them before, at the range but I don�t associate with very many shooters at my range and never asked to hold one. This time I was picking up a gun from my ffl and he had one in the used gun rack� well I can now see why they might be painful to shoot. The whole gun was kinda a joke and I was horrified to find that the �metal?� trigger I was holding was not part of some plastic tag on the gun. Despite being light, the gun is ill to my shoulder.