I just returned last week from South Africa via SAA. After a number of trips with SAA I am looking for an alternative. I have resigned myself to the fact that this is a long flight, and I just have to make the best of it. Things might be better if iI were to fly 1st class or Business class, but I just can't afford it. All I really want is foe SAA to be consistant and follow their own rules.

The flight over was relativlety uneventfull, and everything went ok. The flight back however was a different story. In the past I have been allowed to pack my ammo, whitch was packed in a seperate locked hard case with ammo in original boxes, in my checked luggage. I also met my weight restrictions. This time I was told the ammo could not be with my checkede luggege, but had to be seperate. I was also informed that even thou I met the weight limits I would be charged for an extra bag. When I asked if they could just label the checked luggage as ammo I was told no. When I asked to speak to a supervisor, I was told noone was available. (Beginning to sound like a shakrdown to me). I took my luggage to the police staeion where I was told there was no problem with my ammo being packed in my checked baggage. They called down to the check in counter and I was finally allowed to check my bags with the ammo inside.

I'm afraid I have the African bug really bad so I will be back, although probably not with SAA. However, there was a couple who were on their first trip to Africa. They were all ready to come back until this incedent. After this fiasco they said they would never come back to South Africa.

Ipersonaly don't understand how it is safer to have ammo in a small cuntainer that is easily recognized for what it is. Than to be conceiled in my checked luggage. In 2011 a friend of mine was required to seperate his ammo on a flight to Vic Falls. He was using a 404. The ammo never maid it. So much for using his new rifle.

I feel this issue is important to all of us. Perhaps the respective Professional Hunter Associations, and operatore can help

BEE put SAA in the shitter years ago and it will never climb out.

I have not flown SAA since they bought the Airbus. And that has been maybe 8 or 9 years? I have gone to Africa through Paris, Amsterdam, London and Madrid. A popular way to Windhoek is thorough Frankfurt. So, there are options. Unfortunately, with guns, your options get more difficult.

London isn't a great route, but if you don't take your guns, it's a viable option. BA goes London to Lusaka and they used to go to Harare, but I can't find that flight now. Maybe they quit.

Anyway, there are some other options.

Personally, I like the Delta route better. It's a nonstop from Atlanta on the B-777. Yes, it's 16 hours in the air, but you don't have to do that stop in Dakar, in the middle of the night, just about the time you get to sleep, then have to put up with the cabin search, etc.

The only issue with Delta is that if you're continuing on to Harare, they are no longer interline checking your guns to SAA. Unfortunately, you'll still need to go SAA into HRE unless there is another option. Some guys are now using Emirates but that route seems a bit longer.

I did the Europe connection on my first trip over. 14 hr layover in Madrid on both ends. Never again!! I prefer to get on the plane and not have to deal with another plane shuffle until arriving on the continent.

Delta and SAA are usually close to the same price as well. Delta tends to be quite a bit higher further out on the schedule, but within 6 to 8 weeks, they seem to be nearly the same price.

+1 I will be on the Delta flight to Joburg on Weds evening.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
BEE put SAA in the shitter years [ACTUALLY, A LONG DROP PIT TOILET] ago and it will never climb out.

Is that not the truth of the matter, but in reality, not the half of it!

On my trip last year SAA required the ammo to be separated on Domestic flights but was OK on the international flights....including Windhoek to JNB for the connection to WADC?? NO extra baggage charge on domestic flights. I carry my ammo in a little ACE Hardware red mechanics tool box....light lockable and big enough not to get lost.
Cheers,

I have flown three times with SAA and was very happy with it and look forward to the fourth time.I think it might depend on how it works out with the city you are flying out of and all.The only way to know if there are better ways is to try them all-I guess if that choice is available to you for your departing city.

It is bad that no-one ant check in counters knows the rules. SAA is not an exception though. Be pro-active and print the rules of the airline you are flying off their website and take them with you. It is the only way to get through this most of the time.

The problem with all commercial airlines is that you're always at the mercy of individual check in agents and no matter which airline you travel with, none of them know all the rules. This has been made even worse by the laws and regulations regarding such things as permitted/banned calibres changing slightly over the last few years after something like 60 years of no changes.

I think the best thing anyone can do regarding ammo is to pack the ammo into a hard lockable case that will fit into either the rifle case, ordinary baggage or is capable or travelling as a separate item and then just say to the individual check in agent that you have ammo and how would they like it to travel?

And then just do whatever the hell they ask and leave it at that.

There are other issues with SAA in that their safety record isn't that great and you can get more info at www.planecrashinfo.com on that.

I have no use for SAA, not so much the flight over but its the people on the ground in JoBerg. Last time I flew them was in 2007 and trying to checkin to come back was a total nightmare. There was some mission group on the flight so the checkin line was backed up big time and guess what, only one checkin agent working. There were plenty of SAA people around but just one actually working. Finally after about 2 hours and the line only moving about a foot a gentleman I had been talking with in line got fed up and went and found a supervisor and another checkin agent was made to work. She was not happy about having to actually work for the pay and she really showed it. Once in Dulles I think only about half the luggage she checked in actually made it.

The only problem I have with the flight in the delousing stop in Dakar.

I personally fly to the US every year and fly DELTA out of Atlanta straight through to JHB.
They dont stop in Dakar anymore on this route.

I will not fly SAA until they stop their racist shit.No white pilots need apply ??

And to all travelling sportsmen , use PHASA, Air2000, Henry Durheim of Rifle imports, to meet and greet with firearms. Legal means nothing to the BEE employees, Policeman and custom officials.
I have had perfectly good paperwork torn up and rewritten by hand verbatim to the pre processed SAPS 520 form I supplied hunting clients.
Its $ 150 bucks and they will save you hours of beeing dicked around.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Personally, I like the Delta route better. It's a nonstop from Atlanta on the B-777. Yes, it's 16 hours in the air, but you don't have to do that stop in Dakar, in the middle of the night, just about the time you get to sleep, then have to put up with the cabin search, etc.

The only issue with Delta is that if you're continuing on to Harare, they are no longer interline checking your guns to SAA. Unfortunately, you'll still need to go SAA into HRE unless there is another option. Some guys are now using Emirates but that route seems a bit longer.

I did the Europe connection on my first trip over. 14 hr layover in Madrid on both ends. Never again!! I prefer to get on the plane and not have to deal with another plane shuffle until arriving on the continent.

Delta and SAA are usually close to the same price as well. Delta tends to be quite a bit higher further out on the schedule, but within 6 to 8 weeks, they seem to be nearly the same price.

Todd:

That is not entirely true. If SEPARATE tickets are purchased this is indeed the case. However , if the flights are all one ticket, they will forward the guns. I have just boarded a plane. I can get you more details upon my return.

I just returned from flying SAA from JFK to Kasane, Botswana. The flight from Joberg to Kasane was on SAA airlink. No problem with ammo in a locked container in my luggage either way. I think it all depends upon the check in agent. I always print out the airline firearms/ammo policy from their website as well as the TSA policies but didn't have to use them.

I live outside of Philadelphia so New York or Dulles is within driving distance. In 2011 I flew Delta out of Atlanta since the price was about the same as SAA. Since then every time I check I find that Delta is usually more expensive than SAA since it involves another flight from Philadelphia to Atlanta and the flight leaves so late in the day that you cannot make most connections in Joberg without staying overnight and then having to go through the SAPS crap. That combined with Delta's policy of charging you for a second checked bag puts them over the top price wise on flights to Africa for me. I'd rather fly Delta and the better aircraft but the extra cost just isn't justified.

Now if the Delta flight would leave earlier so you could make connections in Joberg without an overnight that would be a great incentive to give them another try.

You need to be careful with Airlink because no commercial passenger airline is allowed to carry firearms or ammo on an aircraft type that allows access from passenger cabin to baggage hold when the aircraft is in flight and some of their aircraft do allow that.

Consequently check aircraft type before you book.

Larry,

If they are interlining bags from Delta to SAA again, it's a change from last October. Shawn at Gracy specifically switched me from Delta to SAA so that I could make the connection to HRE without having to receive, clear, and recheck my guns at JoBerg. But the word from Delta was that no more interlining of baggage was occurring.

Shawn had several clients arrive in HRE without bags, some with bags. Her comment was that depending on who was working at the time, bags MIGHT be interline transferred from Delta to SAA, but policy was that they would not be. As much as I hate flying on the ScareBus and the little rest stop in Dakar, I chose SAA for the HOPE that the bags would be transferred at JNB. Turns out the connecting flight to HRE was canceled and I ended up clearing the guns and staying overnight anyway.

One word, Emirates.

A friend just flew on Turkish Airlines. They were upgraded to 4 stars and he flew JFK-Istanbul (7 hour layover)-Kampala to hunt Uganda. Had no problems and was impressed with professionalism of staff. Ticket was, I believe, $1200.00 US. Don't know if they fly to Harare or Vic Falls, though.

Dutch

Oh, no gun issues in Turkey and police politely refused gratuity for watching guns in the airport while my friend shopped.

Dutch

I recently flew Delta from Atlanta to Joburg and then SAA from Joburg to Port Elizabeth. My ammo was fine in my checked luggage on the outgoing and return Delta flights. SAA let me keep my ammo in my checked luggage going to Port Elizabeth, but it had to come out on the return to Joburg. I think the advice of Shakari above is good -- have your ammo in a locked box, and be prepared to do whatever they say. It just reduces blood pressure.

This is interesting. I just returned Thurdsday evening from RSA using a combination of Lufthansa and SAA. While I live in the Phoenix area, my origin of departure was LAX. I used FF miles to book this trip which is what prompted this routing.

We flew from PHX to LAX the night before our main departure on SW airlines on a seperate ticket. The routing was LAX to Frankfurt on Lufthansa. From this point I connected to SAA and flew to Jo'burg, collected bags/permits, flew SAA to Kimberley. Route back was the same in reverse except through Munich.

Rifles in Tuffpak. Ammo in a Cabelas tagged version of a Pelican pistol case. I don't remember the model number, but the one that's roughly a foot and half long, a foot wide and five inches deep. Included in the ammo case was binoculars, laser range finder, a scope and a couple of bipods. The case was of course locked.

Would this be considered ammo traveling in other luggage? Our clothes were in a seperate suitcase that we carried on on the trip over, checked on the return.

Whatever the case, we had no issues. I must say in fairness to SAA, the planes were immaculate, the service very friendly, food was pretty good and their IFE was better than Lufthansa.

We flew SAA from London to Joburg on our trip a couple weeks ago and it was the most pleasant leg of our entire trip. Plenty of leg room, food was good and flight attendants were very attentive. We flew Lufthansa to Frankfurt when leaving Joburg and it was the most cramped plane I've ever been in, the food was the worst I've ever tasted and they charged me $200 for my rifle case despite it not being overweight nor an extra piece of luggage.

I've made both the SAA and Delta routes. I much prefer the straight shot from ATL to JoBurg. Plus, you get to skip the defogging!

quote:

posted 10 June 2013 19:17Hide Post
This is interesting. I just returned Thurdsday evening from RSA using a combination of Lufthansa and SAA. While I live in the Phoenix area, my origin of departure was LAX. I used FF miles to book this trip which is what prompted this routing.

I'm sure with the upgrade you got better treatment. I have over 10 trips with SAA and have yet to be allowed to use my ff miles. The bottom line for me is on most of my flights tha ammo, and firearms have arrived ok. However, SAA has lost my rifles once, my luggage once, and now with this ammo issue I'm done with SAA, and will not recomend them to my clients. If the ammo oe rifles don't make it the trip is not successful.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
+1 I will be on the Delta flight to Joburg on Weds evening.

Im on the same flight.

quote:

Originally posted by venda axe:

quote:

posted 10 June 2013 19:17Hide Post
This is interesting. I just returned Thurdsday evening from RSA using a combination of Lufthansa and SAA. While I live in the Phoenix area, my origin of departure was LAX. I used FF miles to book this trip which is what prompted this routing.

I'm sure with the upgrade you got better treatment. I have over 10 trips with SAA and have yet to be allowed to use my ff miles. The bottom line for me is on most of my flights tha ammo, and firearms have arrived ok. However, SAA has lost my rifles once, my luggage once, and now with this ammo issue I'm done with SAA, and will not recomend them to my clients. If the ammo oe rifles don't make it the trip is not successful.

Actually it wasn't an upgrade, I only purchased coach seats. I saved my FF miles through travel on U.S. Airways and use of their credit card. It took some effort in getting it figured out. You have to be a bit flexible it seems to use them and get a route that you find acceptable.

For whatever reason at the time I was trying to book, getting flights from Phoenix to Kimberley was virtually impossible with out the craziest of routings. A person at U.S. Airways tipped me off on this. So we started checking airports in various cities in the U.S., luckily for me it worked very well out of LAX, and I was able to fly there from here for like $160 RT.

But in the end with the trouble you've had, I do understand your frustration. I've only had the one trip with them. I hope you did not take my post as trying to be critical of yours, that was not the intent.

I'm still a bit hazy on having ammo in a seperate locked container from other luggage. Does this mean ammo and ammo only in it's own case? Or can other things be with it, like I did?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Larry,

If they are interlining bags from Delta to SAA again, it's a change from last October. Shawn at Gracy specifically switched me from Delta to SAA so that I could make the connection to HRE without having to receive, clear, and recheck my guns at JoBerg. But the word from Delta was that no more interlining of baggage was occurring.

Shawn had several clients arrive in HRE without bags, some with bags. Her comment was that depending on who was working at the time, bags MIGHT be interline transferred from Delta to SAA, but policy was that they would not be. As much as I hate flying on the ScareBus and the little rest stop in Dakar, I chose SAA for the HOPE that the bags would be transferred at JNB. Turns out the connecting flight to HRE was canceled and I ended up clearing the guns and staying overnight anyway.

Read what Steve Turner wrote.

DELTA!!! Although I am going Dallas-Amsterdam-Harare on KLM at the end of the month. Great rate, but I am using camp guns as the EU has guns\ammo ban against ZIM.

I suspect SAA pays a higher commission to travel agents than Delta which might account for Gracy switching your reservations to them. Government owned airlines tend to do this especially third world types which receive aid from virtually every western European, n. american, and some Asian and some middle eastern governments.

I had the opportunity to fly SAA back when the flew the 747 non stop from Atlanta and it was a wonderful operation. The plane that we flew southbound on was named the Great North, on all 4 of our trips, before the change to the SCAREBUS.

I am an old guy and have traveled by air to much of the world. The ground personnel employed by SAA at JNB are the most surly and incompetent, not to mention least helpful,of any I have encountered.(This in 12 trips to or thru JNB) No other African port of entry comes close.

I would like to try Emirates to someplace in Africa. Could it be that SAEED is Ceo of emirates? If not the names are very similar. I saw the name in the Wall Street Journal just the other day.

I just got back 2 weeks ago. Flew SAA. Guns cleared going over by Afton House. Coming back I got Bruce from Gracy Myers to clear me. I only use handguns and had no problems with them either way.
The ammo thing applies ONLY to select cities in SA on in country flights. Ammo allowed in checked bag to Hoedspruit and back. Had to be in separate locked box from East London and back??? Go figure.
Several people tried to fleese me at JoBerg but Afton House and Bruce shut them down.
I've had only white pilots on all my SAA fights in the past on in and out country flights.

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
I would like to try Emirates to someplace in Africa. Could it be that SAEED is Ceo of emirates? If not the names are very similar. I saw the name in the Wall Street Journal just the other day.

Give them a try, I think you will like Emirates. From Houston direct to Dubai, then direct to Harare via a brief stop in Lusaka. I have used them twice with zero gun issues. Boeing 777's the whole way. Not sure why anyone would put up with Jo'berg given an alternative.

quote:

Not sure why anyone would put up with Jo'berg given an alternative.

Me neither I try and avoid that place like the plague..

SAA......."Select Another Airlines"

Larry, I'm still not sure that clears the matter up completely. Even Steve says that to a large degree, it depends on who the agent is when you check in. That really mirrors what I've seen.

But to my earlier point, I did state that if they changed the policy, it was since October 2012. Steve stated October 2012 is when Delta implemented the No-Forward policy, then postponed it in Jan. Being a former airline employee myself, I still think the best bet is to schedule enough time to receive and clear you're own bags, then recheck them. I'm not sure I want to trust the "check in agent of the day" to make sure my safari goes off without a hitch!

quote:

Originally posted by bcolyer:
SAA......."Select Another Airlines"

that's strange. i thought it stood for SHITTY AS ALWAYS

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
I suspect SAA pays a higher commission to travel agents than Delta which might account for Gracy switching your reservations to them. Government owned airlines tend to do this especially third world types which receive aid from virtually every western European, n. american, and some Asian and some middle eastern governments.

I had the opportunity to fly SAA back when the flew the 747 non stop from Atlanta and it was a wonderful operation. The plane that we flew southbound on was named the Great North, on all 4 of our trips, before the change to the SCAREBUS.

I am an old guy and have traveled by air to much of the world. The ground personnel employed by SAA at JNB are the most surly and incompetent, not to mention least helpful,of any I have encountered.(This in 12 trips to or thru JNB) No other African port of entry comes close.

I would like to try Emirates to someplace in Africa. Could it be that SAEED is Ceo of emirates? If not the names are very similar. I saw the name in the Wall Street Journal just the other day.

I don't work for Emirates.

But, I understand many hunters are using them now.

Check with your travel agent, preferably one who specializes in hunting travel.

another consideration is Etihad Aiways from Chicago or NY to Abu Dhabi(sp??) to Joburg. i flew them last Oct, business on the Joburg to Abu Dhabi leg, first from Abu Dhabi to Heathrow home( freg flyer ticket so routing was a bit awkward). their business class was nicer than the American or BA first class service. coach looked very nice/comfortable from what i saw. the first class service was the only flight i have ever taken where you had your own compartment with a door and 27" TV!! they are FF partners with American.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
another consideration is Etihad Aiways from Chicago or NY to Abu Dhabi(sp??) to Joburg. i flew them last Oct, business on the Joburg to Abu Dhabi leg, first from Abu Dhabi to Heathrow home( freg flyer ticket so routing was a bit awkward). their business class was nicer than the American or BA first class service. coach looked very nice/comfortable from what i saw. the first class service was the only flight i have ever taken where you had your own compartment with a door and 27" TV!! they are FF partners with American.

If you look at my hunt reports, you will see that Emirates has the same "suites" as they call them on their First Class from Dubai to Dar.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by bcolyer:
SAA......."Select Another Airlines"

that's strange. i thought it stood for SHITTY AS ALWAYS

Nah! It actually stands for "SHITTY AFRICAN AIRWAYS!"