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Does anyone have experience in buying land in Namibia? Can USA residents legally purchase land? Any good websites for ranch sales? ANY advice is welcome. Thanks | ||
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The short and long answer is no, US citizens cannot buy land in Namibia unless and until they change the laws which is supposedly a possibility on the back burner but not very likely in the near future. That said, there are ways to do most anything, but first of all, you'll have to have at least a 50% Namibian partner......which means you better find one you can trust with what amounts to control over your Namibian assets and, with all due respect to our Namibian members, that isn't going to be easy to do.....I could go on but I'll stop there, and hope someone can give you some more hopeful information but I believe this to be correct. If it could be done easily, I'd have already done it. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I hope this won't seem too off topic, but this may be a good opportunity to ask something I've long been curious about. Do they have a U.S. or western style land title system generally in the usual African hunting countries, including Namibia, SA, Tanz and Botswana (I know not to even think about asking about Zim)? How does that work over there? | |||
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Purchase of land in any African country can often be very different from "owning" it. | |||
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I tried to buy land in Alberta about 6 years ago and was told basically the same thing, you can buy no more than 3 acres of farmland! Now I hear about the same thing about Namibia. Hellfire guys, the US will let some SOB from anywhere in the world buy the frigging White House if they have enough money and yet it appears a US citizen cant buy the time of day outside our borders. I'm getting nervous, I'm not waiting for this country to collapse into socialism before I bail out. Anybody got any other ideas???? | |||
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You'll find if you do any serious research and thinking about it, you're going to have a very difficult time finding someplace that is more capitalistic and democratic than the US ESPECIALLY IF YOU PLAN ON HAVING FIREARMS. If you've got the nerve and are relatively young, you might consider Chile, Argentina, or Brazil but it isn't a picnic down there either. Australia and New Zealand are a helluva lot closer to "socialism" than we are. You might look into some of the Eastern European nations but you better be prepared for the Bear, and I'm not talking about ursus major. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Maybe other AR (informed guests) can give the lowdown good oil on other Southern African regional countries. I can only (speak with some authority) on South Africa & Zambia where we have private wildlife and ranching investements, bearing in mind we are South African born/citizens ... SOUTH AFRICA - general overview It is not a problem for outsiders/foreign nationals to purchase land within South Africa, there are legalities to go through BUT if one is in the loop it is just fine. There are a few ways to skin the cat, dual shareholding with a local resident, a joint venture, and/or outright ownership. It really depends on your preferred business model, and if you wish to be a sleeping partner, or reside on the property, there is always a solution to most everything including potential land claim issues. For a prime example .. noted VIP Sir Richard Branson of Virgin Group fame own's a PRIME Wildlife Property ULUSABA regionally near Kruger National Park WE personally have (sold one of our ranches) back to the government to satisfy a (historic land claim) ... We were very happy with the outcome and the payment made to us. We infact have another (prime game ranch) of some 9000+ acre, fully game fenced, in the (beautiful soutpansberg mountains) Limpopo Province, which we would offer for sale CONDITIONALLY to any genuine buyer at a (reasonable realistic price offer) the property is teeming with wildlife, proberbly in excess of 1000 animals. ZAMBIA - brief overview We are also bona fide legally registered Zambia investors owning TWO fully operational game fenced Wildlife properties in Southern Province, and a third smaller 1000 acre undeveloped piece of land. In Zambia land can be is purchased on a 99 year title lease. The PRESIDENT formally own's all the game animals in Zambia but this is only a technicality, as the existing wildlife on each property is purchased from the governemnt and then it becomes the owners animals to utilize within the constraints of the Wildife Act. All general questions welcome .... Reards, Peter ------------------------------------ SOUTH AFRICA / The Formal Rules/explantion Non-Residents There are no restrictions on property ownership by non-residents, save for a prohibition on illegal aliens owning immovable property within South Africa. There are, however, procedures and requirements which must be complied with in certain circumstances, such as, the local registration of entities registered outside of South Africa where it purchases property in South Africa and the appointment of a South African resident public officer for a local company whose shares are owned by a non-resident. In the event of a non-resident purchasing property in the country with the intention of residing here for longer periods, permanent residency will have to be applied for in accordance with the given requirements and procedures of South African law. Purchasing Property In South Africa As A Foreigner Property of any kind in South Africa is normally purchased through a broker or real estate agent who should be registered as a member of the Estate Agents Board. The South African Reserve Bank refers to foreigners as NON-RESIDENTS whether they be natural persons or legal entities, whose normal place of residence, domicile or registration is outside the common monetary area of South Africa. Should the non-resident be paying cash for the property, the transaction can be processed without intervention from the South African Reserve Bank. Non-residents purchasing a property in South Africa may borrow up to a maximum of 50% of the purchase price in South Africa; the other 50% of the funds must be brought into the country by the purchaser and transferred from a recognised foreign bank to a bank in South Africa. The total amount that may be borrowed is at the discretion of the commercial bank offering the loan and Pam Golding International can assist in this regard using our in-house Mortgage consultants. Non-residents who are in possession of a valid South African work permit are considered to be residents for the duration of their work permit and are therefore not subject to borrowing restrictions placed on non-residents without work permits. | |||
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Purchasing land in Namibia is not that much of an issue. Best thing is to have a farm registered as a CC with at least 50% of the shares belonging to a namibian shareholder. Some interesting concepts have come during the last couple of years...similar to time sharing, being called "hunt sharing". Basically the namibian chap is keeping his cattel, the foreign part gets to hunt - or the hunting and/ or tourism "rights" are leased out to a safari company. | |||
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I agree with kamaatu, it is not difficult to buy into a company, and then its easier to control from your side of the pond as well. I would suggest a Pty (ltd) company, as they have to be audited by a CA, so your partner are less likely to get away with skimming more off the milk than you. In fact, I am at this very moment in negotiations with a foreign national to buy land as such, and then my company will lease the hunting rights on it for 10 years at a time. All game are counted by scientific ways on the property, and after every 10 year period, it has to be the same numbers. This is just one way of doing it, there are hunderds of ways doing it. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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sevenmag, let me get this right..you are afriad that the USA is descending into socialism so you are buying land in Canada??!!!! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Here's a further blurb on the Namibian topic, if this doesn't discourage you, have at it (note, the author, who is a real estate agent, admits that he is not a lawyer): Namibian land for sale xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Found this in the site: Compiled on 26 February 2008 without prejudice of rights, conditions and law’s with respect to ownership changing from time to time Namibia – Agriculture land : Foreign ownership Questions are frequently asked about buying, ownership and residency of Agriculture land (“Farm” property) in Namibia. (“Ownership”, “usage” and “residency” are different concepts for the goal of this) The definition of “farm” is varied and mainly means land, no matter how small, situated outside municipal area, even land “stands” in un-proclaimed towns – and there are quite a few in Namibia. Answers on enquiries don’t exist in general, seeing that each person’s enquiries have its own merits. The general ones are found in the applicable legislation, although Greek to the standard person. In the initial stage it should be mentioned that the whole concern is pulled out of proportion. The golden rule is: “Follow the procedures as described by law and stay out of trouble”. Most negative, sometimes controversial happenings, originate in the fact that residents of Namibia agriculture land offer (Farm property and / or related-) for sale without following the prescribed procedures. If the seller, therefore the buyer, lands in trouble, the blame is placed upon the involved property agent (on behalf of the seller), ór the Government. The Namibian Government holds the first right to purchase farm property and when that right does not want to be exercised; permission can be given to sell to anybody else, except foreigners. It is possible for a non-Namibian citizen to own and utilize agriculture land, even to prove ownership. To live on the land is a matter on its own. Each of the last mentioned has its own legislation to follow Except for the law on agriculture land, people must first attend to legal citizenship, if the purpose of purchasing is for residential use. It in one thing to own agriculture land but another to become a resident or even to occupy the property. Whether you mention South Africans or any other foreigner, the same rule applies. We specifically mention South Africans because there are old “Suidwesters” which doesn’t want to accept the fact that Namibia is a land on its own now. Such people roam upon double citizenship in South Africa. The author hereof is no law practitioner, but, being an estate agent it is expected of him to know the legal requirements of land ownership, alternatively to have a good knowledge thereof to assist both the seller and the buyer or refers them to experts. Once again, it is no easy task to supply answers to all question, seeing that every person has his own circumstances and needs The most important aspect is that no foreigner should directly or indirectly own agricultural land without government approval, alternatively, may not own the controlling share. For example, should a Closed Corporation or Company be the owner of agriculture land, must the majority shareholding belong to a Namibian citizen. Last mentioned is miss used, and the government knows about it but is powerless. The “powerlessness” of the government is being strengthened by the law of immigration control. Therefore, should a foreigner, for which ever reason, receive or own 100% ownership, with title- or any other proof, they still have to answer to the question of “legal residence”. Before loopholes in the law were filled, foreigners obtained agriculture land as their lawful property, with title proof and more. If that person wanted to visit his/her property, even for just a week or two for hunting purposes, the question arises of whether such a person entered and is roaming the country legally. To answer the last enquiry received: Yes, it is possible for a South African to own interest in agriculture land, with title deed in the hand, with respect to shareholding in a Company or member of a Closed Company. Thus can be 100% ownership or 49% with a Namibian citizen owning the remaining 51%. Last mentioned can be hidden by means of additional contract / agreement. Utilization lies, once again in legal residency, whether as visitor (3 months), or per application thereof, temporarily (12 months), or permanent. As above mentioned, each person has individual needs. Before foreigners may buy agriculture land, the motive must be laid out completely to a trustworthy estate agent of law practitioner. The procedure to owning agriculture land and residential rights is unfortunately a lengthy, sometimes frustrating procedure and can be expensive, the reason for application and motive depending NAMIBIA PROPERTIES: Now available in the following areas. SWAKOPMUND AND MILE 4 WALVISBAY HENTIESBAY LANGSTRAND GROOTFONTEIN TSUMEB TO ETOSHA WINDHOEK GOBABIS KEETMANSHOOP AND SOUTH TO FISH RIVER CANYON BETHANIE GRÜNAU KARASBURG Contact us for houses, businesses, commercial properties, farms for sale, lodges, etc. bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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Thanks guys for the advice! Peter, I never said I was going to move to Alberta, that was strictly an investment deal. A Texan wouldn't last more than two months in that cold climate!! I just about froze to death on a six day hunt. Namibia is a possible second (or first new home). Obama is going to slowly bleed the working class in this country and I'm trying to figure out where to put some assets before he gets it all. If you wait till it gets unbearable or your broke then it's to late. | |||
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Any idea how much an acre the "average Namibian" game farm is selling for? Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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RV, found one farm on a website, over 32 thousand acres, house, etc, lock stock and barrel for little over $28. an acre. | |||
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I could quote prices on some land in an area I'm familiar with (general range is about $30 up, to many times that number depending on below variables, including how bad someone wants out, $35 to $70 is probably a reasonable figure for a ranch that is not high fenced but has some decent amenities), but it is widely variable depending on aridity (which is a big factor in Namibia, it's all dry (Caprivi excepted), but some is a helluva lot drier than others), improvements, fencing, housing, lodges, if any, game fencing, if any, surface water, wells, electricity (on grid or not), size of property (larger tends to be a bit cheaper per hectare) etc, etc. Bottom line, as an American it is really a "no-go" unless you're willing to put your money in a situation over which you don't have solid control (you'll be a 50% partner max and it may and probably will be 100% your money), plus it ain't a gravy train over there, these places have to have help, year round management, etc, numerous upgrades (anyone who owns a farm or ranch can tell you this is a never ending process) and MANY of these places don't cash flow out even their yearly expenses. There are people I know personally that I'd trust in trying to accomplish this but I haven't done it and that might tell you something.......what happens if something happens to them, etc. As I said earlier in this thread, anything is possible, but Swapo doesn't favor the white guys, they may tolerate them but that is today, the situation is fine in Namibia now, but 10 years from now.....who knows......bottom line, it's a HELLUVA lot cheaper and easier to pay for all the hunting you want in Namibia, and walk away free and clear when the hunt is over. Citizens of other countries have the same problem, but they aren't 15 plus hours of expensive plane flight, with relatively difficult connection problems, from their investment . Again, like I said earlier, if it was easy, I'd already have done it. And, if anyone can show me a way of owning/investing in game land that has rewards in proportion to the risks, I'll be glad to hear about it, but this ain't my first rodeo and if you're trying to BS me, don't bother. Let me add one final bit of advice, if anyone is really considering trying to invest in land in Namibia, they should go there and spend a substantial amount of time looking around, asking questions, evaluating any specific areas, etc BEFORE they even consider trying to buy/invest any substantial sums. In particular, if someone is considering investing in land near a park, or near one of the communal tribal areas then, IMO, your investment is at considerably higher risk than the high risk it already entails anywhere in the country and one should figure potential returns on that basis. Many of these problems could be overcome if you become a Namibian citizen, but to most of us in the US, this is not a palatable option because you'd have to renounce your US citizenship. I believe, but am not sure, that some other countries, especially in Europe do not have this requirement, that is, one can have dual citizenship legally. To repeat myself, you may fear for our country's future, but try comparing it with others and you'll find this frying pan is a helluva lot better than most other's fire. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Why do you think this? Many US citizens are dual nationals. Or are you saying Namibia requires renunciation of the other citizenship? | |||
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Apparently Namibia does require you to renounce your prior citizenship if you apply for Namibian citizenship, according to the application I read. I'm not a lawyer but it is my understanding that a US citizen who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it loses his U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Dual citizenship by heritage or place of birth, in which the person had no choice, are not included. Since there are relatively few, if any, dual Namibian/US citizens, you would probably lose your US citizenship if you became a Namibian by choice and it was discovered by the US. Whether you could do this and keep it a hidden from the US government would be another matter, then you would be in the somewhat unique position of paying dual taxes on the same income. I'm subject to correction on this if anyone has more accurate information. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Further, a couple of minutes of internet reading indicate that there are basically 2 ways of becoming a Namibian citizen, one of which would probably NOT affect US citizenship, and that would be marrying a Namibian and residing there as the spouse for 2 years. The other, is the applicant has to have been a Namibian legal resident for 5 years and then applies for citizenship, that probably would affect the statue of your US citizenship if they found out about it. In addition, there may be other quicker ways, if you have the assets and the connections, but I don't have any knowledge of that, but it is Africa and things can get done with the right connections or baksheesh. Bottom line, marry one and she (or he) might be able to buy land for you immediately even while you were not a citizen but if things go teats up in the relationship you're probably going to be left with your fingers for companionship and your wits for raising your next stake. Nothing is certain in this life but death. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Info on Namibian citizenship xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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There are quite a few people in the Jewish American community who also are Israeli citizens. At least they don't seem to have any problems owning property in both countries. They didn't have to renounce their U. S. citizenship. Gpopper | |||
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......and your point is.....how does Israeli law have anything to do with Namibia? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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FatCat, man, chill out! I just ask a simple question about puchasing land in Namibia. I wasn't trying to send you on a tirade and I damn sure wasn't trying to bullshit you. The place I saw for sale was priced at $28.71 an acre and that is fact not opinion. Pour yourself a highball and settle down. | |||
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7mag: What is your problem? You asked a question and I answered it with what personal knowledge I have on the situation. Tirade? Please show show me where I was on a "tirade", nor did I ever say or indicate that I thought you were "bullshitting" me. I didn't say a word about your quote on land costs. I told you what land costs in an area I'm familiar with, which is N Central Namibia, around the Omaruru area. If you don't want to gather pertinent information about somewhere that you are considering or considered putting your assets than you should definitely stay at home. Maybe you need to put the highball down and try reading more carefully. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I'll have a highball for both of you. It seems an African bride is the easiest route. However, when I Googled Himba Mail Order Bride, the results were not very promising. "...Africa. I love it, and there is no reason for me to explore why. She affects some people that way, and those who feel as I do need no explanation." from The Last Safari | |||
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Jorge: According to my Ph there is a Dutchman who has several Himba brides and lives with them on their tribal lands......no accounting for tastes, I say, but the smell would be a tough act to act, if you follow....... xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I nearly did this about 10 years ago, as a sleeping partner. The Namibian partner seemed solid, family had been in the game farm business for a very long time. The deal did not go through. Well a year ago, I heard he had packed up for RSA and sold off his farms ... which would have cashed me out I guess. Point is, 49% of anything is a tricky situation. Under those laws, may as well go in as a 10% or 20% holder .. you have the same power (none), you get to "own" a hunting property in Namibia, and if you get screwed, you lose less money. Having said that, there is hunting property for sale, 60% ownership offered, and if anyone else wants to take a flyer with me, drop me a PM. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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