I have been given a friends' .300 win mag to prepare loads for an upcoming hunt in Burkina Faso.

I'm not sure what the legal caliber or energy requirements are but he is also taking a 9,3x74R more specifically for the buffalo, I am going along as an observer with a few extra privledges.

The safari is to revolve around roan, lion and buff, I will be along on the trip, but I won't be taking rifles of my own. He wants me to double on anything that doesn't drop on the spot and I will look into buying a licence on site to hunt if possible.

Now, I have some 220gn Nosler partitions here that my friend is very keen to try out in his .300wm. I think they would work quite well on buffalo, however, between the 220 partition and a 168gn TXS or 180 TSX on plains game I think the extra weight will be more of a problem than advantage.
I cannot see a 220gn partition doing much more that clean in out wounds on a roan or other smaller antelope for example, especially if you start shooting out past 150yards.

Does anyone else have any experience with the 220gn partition in the .300win mag?
I used a 220gn Remington factory load in .30-06 some years ago, I recall they were called hammerheads or something, and worked surprisingly well. One memory stands out - I shot 3 zerbra in rapid succession with them and dropped all three on the spot!

However in this case we are looking mainly at lion (no pun intended) and roan for this load, I have a suspiscion that it won't open up enough to cause a great wound channel, especially in the lion.

you can not go wrong with a nosler in any cal, either 200 or 220
Daniel

The front end of the Partition is pretty fast-opening, no matter the weight. I would assume that you could drive the 220 at about 2600 from a .300 Win. At that speed, the front portion will give you good performance on any thin-skinned game. The rear portion, which is proportionally greater as you go up in weight in Partitions, will provide good penetration. Lions are not particularly "hard", at least not as compared to buffalo. I would think the 220 Partition would give you plenty of penetration on lions. On the smaller red buffalo of Burkina Faso, slip the Partition in just aft of the shoulder and you should do ample damage to the heart-lungs. Going straight through the shoulder may leave all of your front portion in the muscle, with only the rear portion making it to the vitals. This won't be as quick a killer.

As compared to a monometal bullet, even the 220 Partition will provide greater effective expansion on plains-type game. The monometals sometimes fail to expand at all ("pencil through"), but never the Partition.

EXPRESS,

I love the TSX and have used it a lot of late but as you have been advised if you want quick expansion and devastating tissue damage do please use the partition. The partition's front end will literally come unglued causing terrific damage.

In Burkino Faso I believe the lion will be hunted by tracking. Given that the possibility the shot presented will be less than perfect I'd hunt the lion with the 9.3. I've killed lion with a 300 Mag on bait but for tracking a heavier caliber is probably prudent.

Mark

The common opinion that the partition will blow off the front end comes from using too light of a partition bullet for the caliber used...

The 180 partition does seem to blow off the front end in the magnums thirties, but I have never had that problem with the 200 or 220 gr. partition in my 300 H&H or an old Wby that I used to have..I got about 95% perfect expansion in both of them...After a lot of use I also get the impression the 200 gr. is tougher than the 220 gr.???? I prefer the 220 Woodleigh in the 30 cal. magnums btw, its really a tough bullet.

The older Noslers literally blew off the front end, but they worked well on the killing end with all that sharpnell mixed up the innards pretty darn well, but made a smaller exit hole!

The new Noslers may, on ocassion blow off the "smaller" front end section of lead (they moved the partition forward), but as opposed to the petals coming off they just peal back, and the end results looks like a perfectly expanded Barnes X..Not a bad solution, and this tended to be the case with the Wby and not the H&H, so drop the velocity about 100 FPS if you like on the Wby and it will mostly be a perfect expansion, for whatever that is worth...

Slowing most bullets down is not practiced much these days, but the end result of that is positive in almost any case as far as big game is concerned..Bullet integrity is a very important part of clean kills and that extra 100 or 150 FPs has little to do with anything. It does not even change the trajectory from a practical point of view..

I agree with Ray in that the 220 gr Nosler seems to perform "better".
Fact is, I have not been all that impressed with the 180 gr, but sure love the 220 gr. I've only recovered one bullet so far, and it was a perfect mushroom. They always seem to exit.

As good as it is, I'm still not sure it is enough bullt for a Buffalo, but sure is plenty for the plains game.

I agree with Terry, although I know a 300 or even a 30-06 will kill a buffalo, I think to much of my old hide to take that chance since I have seen two buffalo take over 10 shots each with a 470 and 500 N.E., got that on film btw.

I've used the 220grs partion in 300WinMag hunting red deer with V0=2700fps.

Even with these rather lightweight game the bullets front part litterally blew up upon impact. On one of the shot I could immediatly see the impactwound, a large circled red meat-area of approx 1,5" diameter where the skin was blown off from the violent expansion of the front part just under the skin. I was lucky and the rearpart eventually killed the animal. But it needed 3 shots in its vital organs between the range of 15-30m before it finally dropped.

The main problem with the 220grs Partion is that it's designed for 30-06, and because of that the maximum recommended impactspeed are 2500fps. I never gonna use the Partion 220's again in 300WinMag.
200grs Swift A-Frame seems to be a good choice as an allround bullet for this catridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
although I know a 300 or even a 30-06 will kill a buffalo, I think to much of my old hide to take that chance since I have seen two buffalo take over 10 shots each with a 470 and 500 N.E., got that on film btw.

What Ray said. I have had a buffalo go 75 yds before stopping after a 350 Swift A Frame in the boiler room. It then took another about 2 inches from the first before going down. A third shot ended the party. Now picture that buffalo coming at you

Just a thought........

Thanks for the replies; as I said my main concern was on the lion, being thin skinned I wasn't all that sure that the 220gn partition would open up enough on a broadside shot, which is the only shot my friend will take on the lion, which yes, is hunted by tracking during the day only in BF.

On the performance issue where the 220gn partition is noted to work a bit better than the 200gn, could it be linked to MV rather than construction or is it more likely to be a SD issue?
I wasn't aware of this and would have assumed that the 200gn work a bit better than the 220 wich might be a little bit too heavy, escpially in non magnum calibers. But my own example of the zebras, as well as anything else I recall I ever hit with those bullets (which were a bit of a favourite of mine before I started handloading) should have given me the answer - they hit like the hammer of Thor.

In my mind, and I have shot a lion, a fast-ish bullet that expands well is more suited than a big slow bullet, which is my preference on something like a buff that offers a bit more resistence to the slug for it to work it's evil. I know of South Africans who have shot lions with a .243win, however I shot mine with a .375H&H 300gn RWS H mantel bullet, similar to the partition and it stopped under the skin on the off shoulder. The lion danced a short jig and expired within 10 seconds. So that works too aye

The only situation where the .300 will be used on the buffalo will be if I double up on it after it takes 2 from the 9,3x74 and still stands or runs, so it is a lesser problem. Not a backup issue.

Personally I think a .470NE double is about perfect for cape buff, otherwise a .458 or .416 bolt rifle.
However I wouldn't hesitate to use my .375H&H that I am so familiar with, even in the face of a charge.

I don't go after the glory of a 1 shot kill on safari; regardless of how good the first shot was I keep shooting until they're down for good. Even if an animal drops on the spot, I'll usually double it or at least keep it covered for a while. (and my friend sees it the same way, hence my opportunity to hit his animals)
Besides, you get more bang for you buck!

I have some 220gn partitions loaded and ready to try on paper, if they will shoot acceptably I'll take them.

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
However I wouldn't hesitate to use my .375H&H that I am so familiar with, even in the face of a charge.
.

If you get charged, I'd suspect you will be changing your opinion about that.

My P.H. in Burkina Faso carried a Brno 602 in .375 H&H when we were hunting PG. When we changed concessions to hunt buffalo, he got up early that morning and drove about an hour to retrieve a .458 Win Mag for his back up. The buffalo I killed that day weighed 550 kilos.

The point? Burkina buff aren't necessarily little and sometimes need lots of killing.

For your consideration, my PH had been hunting over 20 years and a .458 made him more comfortable than a .375... and you want to take a .30 caliber?

You need to tell Francois how good that 30-06 is in a buffalo charge. Here he is, from my book, with his .318 WR (~30-06).

Has anyone heard from Francois lately. Did he get married as planned? Last time I saw him, he was still recovering from his wounds, but the swelling was much less than in Bill's pictures. He was the camp manager at one of the camps in Omay year before last when I was there (and he certainly was not doing any anti-poaching!). I found him to be a gentleman and a good source of knowledge about Zimbabwe.

I would be comfortable shooting lion or Leopard with 30-06 with 220 gr. Woodleighs at 2700 FPS, as they are thin skinned by comparison, not so buffalo or elephant, unless thats all I had to hunt with..

I would probably hunt anything with the 30-06, as opposed to not hunting at all, but I know its not the thing to do..

I have used 220gr Noslers on everything up thru Wildebeest with perfect confidence in the results and not been disappointed. Only thing is I use them in a 30-06. Last Wildebeest was a little over 300yds measured and he dropped immediately. We were having tea at the time and we finished our tea before picking him up and low and behold he had gotten up and strolled off. He actually got up and went about 150yds and died.The 220 Partition had gone in just behind the ribs and exited the front opposite quarter. Good enough for me.

Would that 220gr work, yes... But if push came to shove, Simba would shove you all over the ground and then pick you up and shake you, like a terrior shakes a rat...

I do not believe in hunting Dangerous Game with the minium caliber or even smaller... If something goes wrong, you are in it up to your ears...

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
My P.H. in Burkina Faso carried a Brno 602 in .375 H&H when we were hunting PG. When we changed concessions to hunt buffalo, he got up early that morning and drove about an hour to retrieve a .458 Win Mag for his back up. The buffalo I killed that day weighed 550 kilos.

The point? Burkina buff aren't necessarily little and sometimes need lots of killing.

For your consideration, my PH had been hunting over 20 years and a .458 made him more comfortable than a .375... and you want to take a .30 caliber?

Judge,
Did you write a hunt report on your trip? If you did, I would love to read it.

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Would that 220gr work, yes... But if push came to shove, Simba would shove you all over the ground and then pick you up and shake you, like a terrior shakes a rat...

I do not believe in hunting Dangerous Game with the minium caliber or even smaller... If something goes wrong, you are in it up to your ears...

Mike

.....................................................Ya know I was going to ask Express if there was any possibility of a larger caliber being used ?????????????Glad Ya,ll did it for me ......................I think a buffalo or lion could be substituted for the bear in my signature line ......A 416 would seem perfact for the hunting you are describeing ....With a 330 gr GSC HV or 350 gr Barnes TSX @ 2600 fps ....... ....Them 300,s make ok tradeing stock ......Nice pics Will , Thanks !!!!

Why does it always come to this...?

1. I am not taking any of my rifles on this hunt, I am going as an observer, and might do a little plains game while I'm there. I'll also double the shots on DG for extra assurance and because I have been asked to.

2. The 9,3x74R with 296gn partitions is going to be used for the (dwarf) buffalo, the .300 win mag for the lion, though I will be carrying the 9,3 when the other is carrying the .300 so if the situation calls for it, the can be swapped for lion in thick bush for example.

3. Yes bigger calibers might be preferable, especially if things get nasty, but again, it's not my call, and these calibers are at quite adequate for the game being hunted.

The question was about 220 grain Nosler partitions, and it seems the general consensus is that they are a great bullet and suitable for the purpose of killing lion, sable, sundries.

Now we have a pissing match about caliber seletion, and DG stopper philosophy.

Also I doubt the unfortunate Francios got into trouble because his .30-06 wasn't powerful enough to go through a buffalos' skull at 20 paces, rather I suspect the .30-06 either missed the mark or used too light/frangiable bullet. A .577 T-rex probably wouldn't have saved him from getting a nasty seeing to from an angry buff.

Now there is a comment set to start a pissing match!

There is absolutly nothing wrong with using the 30-06 or 300s with 220 gr. bullets on Lion, I have seen more than a few shot with it..I know a number of PHs that always used the 06 on Lion...

458 that posts here likes the 06 on Brown Bear,and has shot dozens of them with it. The bear is a much larger animal than a lion..

A Lion is not a Sherman tank, he is, in fact, a 400 to 500 pound animal, and smaller than an elk by a good deal..go figure.

A lion like anything else requires a properly placed shot with any caliber, if done with a 06 it will kill as well as a 375..If done improperly with a 577, your in a world of doo doo.

The Buffalo and elephant are much tougher and larger, and require more penetration IMO, but I have seen the 06 and lesser calibers used on them albeit its not a good practice.

Never under estamate the 30-06 if you can shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
Why does it always come to this...?

Though new posts are a source of entertainment for us retired guys, I don't think I have ever asked a question of the forum such as this.

Obviously you will get every answer under the sun. You knew that. So why ask?

I figure I know everything and sure as hell don't need to ask anyone else their opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
Why does it always come to this...?

1. I am not taking any of my rifles on this hunt, I am going as an observer, and might do a little plains game while I'm there. I'll also double the shots on DG for extra assurance and because I have been asked to.

2. The 9,3x74R with 296gn partitions is going to be used for the (dwarf) buffalo, the .300 win mag for the lion, though I will be carrying the 9,3 when the other is carrying the .300 so if the situation calls for it, the can be swapped for lion in thick bush for example.

3. Yes bigger calibers might be preferable, especially if things get nasty, but again, it's not my call, and these calibers are at quite adequate for the game being hunted.

The question was about 220 grain Nosler partitions, and it seems the general consensus is that they are a great bullet and suitable for the purpose of killing lion, sable, sundries.

Now we have a pissing match about caliber seletion, and DG stopper philosophy.

Also I doubt the unfortunate Francios got into trouble because his .30-06 wasn't powerful enough to go through a buffalos' skull at 20 paces, rather I suspect the .30-06 either missed the mark or used too light/frangiable bullet. A .577 T-rex probably wouldn't have saved him from getting a nasty seeing to from an angry buff.

Now there is a comment set to start a pissing match!

EXPRESS, I've refrained from getting into this thread simply because of my strong opinions on chamberings used on things like Buffalo and lion! Suffice to say, your friend may want to check the laws in Berkino Fasso as to the legality of his choice of cartridges for this hunt! I know absolutely nothing of the rules there, but there are only a few places in Africa where either of his choices are legal for the little, though very agressive red buffalo, and lion!

Let me say here, that I simply LOVE the 9.3X74R in a double rifle, with proper bullets for both the animals in question, but they are minimum, and in most placed illegal for, at least, Buffalo, and maybe lion. So all I'm saying here is, have your friend do some checking, to make sure, before it's too late to change rifles! Good luck on your friend's, and your hunt!