Hi all,
I've lurkd for a while and enjoyed the dicussion and information here. Another AA forum member and I are contemplating our second safari. We went to Zambia about 8 yrs ago (time flies) and each took 375s as our only rifles. This time I'm thinking of taking two. The only DG animal would be buffalo. Thinking of a 458 w/ 400 gr slugs as loaded by Federal. I don't care for 375 length actions, which is part of the issue. Also, if taking a second rifle just for buffalo, it seems to make sense to consider something bigger than 375. Elephant would never be on the agenda, so the controversy about a 500 gr bullet at 2150 fps can be avoided. Thanks!

Jeff,

The 400gr bullets are not made for buf penetration...If you go to Northforks in 450gr softs and 450 gr cup points they will not let you down... Or any other of the premium bullets on the market...With new powders you will not have a problem with the 458 and velocity...

Mike

Welcome to AR

Quoted for emphasis:

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
If you go to Northforks in 450gr softs and 450 gr cup points they will not let you down.

Jeff,

I believe even if you called Federal they would tell you the 400gr loading is not designed for buffalo. I think you'd find the penetration lacking. Now the 450 Barnes TSX at 2300 FPS might be just the trick for buffalo. I'm a big fan of the 4-5-8 and the new monometal bullets only make it better.

Mark

Dare I say the "L" word? Well, here goes nothing - LOTT
But, I know, that dosen't address your dislike of the .375 length action.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
Dare I say the "L" word? Well, here goes nothing - LOTT
But, I know, that dosen't address your dislike of the .375 length action.

Actually, this highlights two of my own limitations, which I am willing to admit. First, I've indeed had trouble with the longer action length. In spite of practice, it seems I tend not to fully cycle such a long action. The problem was solved previously by using a Ruger No. 1. I actually really like the 375, and like the No. 1, but didn't especially want to use a single shot on buffalo. Even if everything goes well, I have some concern that it makes the PH more likely to get involved in the shooting. The other limitation, which I'll admit early on, is that recoil is an issue for me. I can shoot a 375 reasonably well, even with the high energy loads that have a little extra push. The recoil of the Lott, or even just a plain old 500 gr 458, is beyond me. If only one could get ammo for it (I like the idea of being able to get ammo if mine goes missing), the 416 Taylor would probably be just the ticket for me.

What about the .416 Rem? I have one and it seems to me the recoil is not much worse than my .375. That would get you both and bullet weight you're looking for and the shorter 30-06 length action.

Your 458wm will do all that is required and more. Load the North Forks to 2200fps or just below. Recoil is tolerable. Good trade off between velocity and bullet weight and your rifle will perform.

Also, if worse comes to worse, 458wm ammo is widely available, often even in the bush. you won't notice recoil on your buff by the way!

JPK

The 416 remington is based on the full length 375H&H case.

WOW--I don't know much but I am surprised.

So the 458 400 grainer is thought not to have adequate penetration for Buff? And the 375 300 gr would? The Federal site says its 400 grain Bear Claws (not solids as JeffreyPhD specified) has a muzzle velocity of 2250.

I don't doubt you guys at all, just surprised.

And, if not suitable for buff, what do guys use the 400 grainer for? PG?

Also, looking at some info on the 458, I see that there are developed loads for 30 grains, up to 500 grains. I guess this makes the 458 a pretty versitile platform for a variety of game?

Anybody use it with 300 gr loads for PG?

You'll be so pumped when you pull that trigger on the Buff with .458, you won't feel a thing. You probably won't even hear it, either.

Of course, that may make things difficult on the range, but I'm age 64 and weigh 175 and shooting 500 grain loads in a .458 Win doesn't seem much worse than shooting full house 300 grain loads in my .375, as long as I'm shooting from an offhand position.

From my very limited experience, shooting 300 grain loads from the .375 does very well on Buffalo. Penetration was excellent. I was shooting factory Remington A Frames, and they did the job. After what I've learned here, should I return, I'll load up some North Forks and try them, but the A Frame performed flawlessly for me.
Just my 2c.

It's a wee little thing called sectional density. The 400 gr 458 has less SD than a 300 gr 375. Otherwise, you have an overblown 45-70.

Its explained by Sectional Density, a very important part of hunting big game...A 300 gr. .375 will out penetrate a 400 gr. .458 because its longer, and the rest of the explanation would probably further confuse you..Read up on SD is the best advise I can offer, then be aware that the monolithics changed this, but not as much as many seem to think, IMO you can drop down to a 450 gr. monolithic in a .458 and have a good round, but not to a 400 gr. In a 375 you can drop down to a 250 gr. monolithic and its equal to a 300 gr. stout constructed bullet.

Mostly the lighter monolithics give you a bit better trajectory I suppose.

I like the .450grn Barnes TSX for buff or lion