Anyone here ever hunted elephant on one of the Associated Private Nature Reserves (APNR) adjacent to Kruger NP? How was the experience?

I hunted a huge buffalo in the APNR in 2010. After my buff was down we saw an elephant that my PH (Peter Thormahlen) estimated in the 80 pound range. He begged me to shoot it.

I have kids who need to go to college.

I don't recall the exact computation of trophy fee, but the rough estimate was sufficiently high that it wasn't really an option for me.

"The APNR has a hunting protocol for Elephant Hunting, with the open Boundary to Kruger the maximum Ivory Poundage which can be targeted is 60lb" ... (from last post HERE).

They do not let you shoot any of the big ivory eles. Read most eles shot are in the 30-40lb. range. But any bull ele shot up close and personal over express sights is a rush.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
I hunted a huge buffalo in the APNR in 2010. After my buff was down we saw an elephant that my PH (Peter Thormahlen) estimated in the 80 pound range. He begged me to shoot it.

I have kids who need to go to college.

I don't recall the exact computation of trophy fee, but the rough estimate was sufficiently high that it wasn't really an option for me.

considering the other posts here, i guess it's a good thing you didn't....

Thormahlen told me there was a weight limit with a "penalty" for every pound above the limit. But that it was legal to shoot the one we were looking at so long as you were willing to pay the "penalty" on those excess pounds. I don't recall the exact max pounds or the penalty for each pound over the max, but totalling it up in my head led to me to conclude that I would be pushing six figures.

Buffnut you can be very happy that you did not shoot that bull, Thormahlen knows very well that you were not allowed to shoot a bull with such Ivory, the penalty Clause was put in in order to keep outfitters honest, unfortunately it has had the opposite effect and has shown who the Crooked ones are,

Kruger limits the Max Ivory taken in the buffer reserves to 70lb, with no leniency for anything larger, for this reason the Apnr has dropped there limit to 60lb knowing that there is a 10lb gap if one is shot a bit larger than the 60lb,

So if you hunted 2010 with Thormahlen then it would have been in the Umbabat with Lennie Wilson as the reserve representative, the Umbabat is a problem reserve with in the APNR at this stage and has been for a few years so I am sure a plan would have been made but would have cost you a pretty penny,

2010 had some Big buffalo shot in the Umbabat if I remember there were 2 over 46/47 inches,

Was one of them yours?

Reg

JK

As for the original posters question, the Apnr is a great place to hunt Elephant, there are however regulations that have been put in place that limits the size of the Ivory taken,

There are 3 groups 30lb bulls 40lb bulls and 60lb bulls,

The different reserves with in the Apnr also tend to produce different types of hunting experiences, the 2 larger reserves being the Timbavati and Klaserie both hunt like any other open area in Africa just because they are each over 100 000 acres,

Baluli and the Umbabat are different just because they are so small, you will drive the boundaries waiting for bulls to cross over into the hunting areas, if I am correct the umbabat is about 10 000 acres and Baluli about 20 000 acres of hunting area,

If you would like all the reserve hunting protocols then drop me a Pm with your e mail adress,

Reg

JK

quote:

Originally posted by jkhunter:
As for the original posters question, the Apnr is a great place to hunt Elephant, there are however regulations that have been put in place that limits the size of the Ivory taken,

There are 3 groups 30lb bulls 40lb bulls and 60lb bulls,

The different reserves with in the Apnr also tend to produce different types of hunting experiences, the 2 larger reserves being the Timbavati and Klaserie both hunt like any other open area in Africa just because they are each over 100 000 acres,

Baluli and the Umbabat are different just because they are so small, you will drive the boundaries waiting for bulls to cross over into the hunting areas, if I am correct the umbabat is about 10 000 acres and Baluli about 20 000 acres of hunting area,

If you would like all the reserve hunting protocols then drop me a Pm with your e mail adress,

Reg

JK

I think if yuou click HERE it'll bring up the whole APNR background, rules and regs.

Hi Steve that is more the History of the Area not the hunting protocols, I will post this when I get back,

Reg

JK

quote:

Originally posted by jkhunter:
Hi Steve that is more the History of the Area not the hunting protocols, I will post this when I get back,

Reg

JK

Excellent. Thanks!

Thanks gentlemen.

JK and Mike - Shot you each PMs.

Yes, we were in the Umbabat. My buffalo was 46", shot after passing several that were easily over 40". Peter forced me to wait, and I'm glad he did.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
Yes, we were in the Umbabat. My buffalo was 46", shot after passing several that were easily over 40". Peter forced me to wait, and I'm glad he did.

Photo?

Hope that worked - first time I've posted a photo here.

Yes I remember that bull, I don't want to sound like I am putting it down at all as it is a great bull, but Peter should not have let you shoot that bull as it is still soft and under 12 years of age as stated in the APNR hunting protocol,

Again same as the 80lb Elephant he wanted you to shoot.

JK

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to hurt Peter's reputation. I enjoyed my hunt with him and found him to be professional and believed (and still believe) him to be reputable.

Just saying it as it is, we have rules and regulations that need to be stuck to by all outfitters,

We have a big watch dog called Kruger that get reports and photos on every animal we harvest, they write the rule book for us and this Buffalo caused a lot of trouble for us,

They will use any small opportunity to stick it to us,

Sir, are you stating it as a fact that the APNR rules are that you are only allowed to take Buffalo over 12 years of age?

Thanks,

Buffnut

That's what banks are for. Fraid I'd have gone into debt.

Charl as a fact all buffalo have to be over 12 years old, not under 12. This is stipulated in the hunting protocol of the APNR.

just out of curiosity, JK, what would it have cost the hunter to shoot an 80lb elephant in fines( not to mention a for sure Lacey Act violation for breaking foreign game laws)????? it seems some here would have bit the bullet, broken the law and paid the costs. i have to think Peter knew the regulations but figured he could make a plan.....

I've done some of the best hunting there. Looking at 7 shootable elephants before lunch, then more after lunch before finally getting one of 45 lbs because that's what the hunter could afford.

The penalties are there to dissuade you from hunting the bigger bulls. It is per se not illegal and you will not be breaking any laws.

You might bust the bank though

Pieter I must disagree with you there, you will be breaking the Law,

It is the same as a speeding violation, if you go over the limit and get caught you are fined according to a formula put in place by the traffic department,

It will be the same here, by shooting over the poundage you have broken the law and will be fined,

This is one of the reasons each reserve has a representative with on each hunt to make sure that there is no funny stories when it comes to shooting an animal out of protocol,

I know the rules and the protocol as well as the meanings behind this as I was part of the team that wrote them.

If you are saying that you as an outfitter believe that you could shoot a big bull out side the protocol if the client has the Tom to pay for it then we need to re word it.

I know for a fact that if you were hunting in either the Timbavati or Klaserie that the representatives would not even consider this,

I cant speak for the Umbabat or Balulie

JK

PROFESSIONAL TROPHY HUNTING PROTOCOL

AS TAKEN FROM:
THE PROTOCOL FOR THE UTILISATION OF THE WILDLIFE RESOURCE BY THE ASSOCIATED PRIVATE NATURE RESERVES


(Revised April 2012)

All utilisation of the natural resource will be governed by the underlying principles of ecological sustainability, taking into consideration economic and social requirements. Professional (commercial) hunting is conducted in the APNR with the only goal of providing the income to contribute to the management of the environment in a manner in line with each reserves objectives and the best sustainable practice possible.
In determining off take numbers, due regard will be taken of the population dynamics and general well- being of the particular species. All decisions must be based on accepted techniques and methodology and be in the realm of accepted conservation practice.
This will be based on recent, up to date and relevant data on the particular population. As far as possible the population should be seen in the broader APNR context and even in the greater KNP context and not merely on a farm or Reserve basis.

Bearing the above in mind, the protocol will be adapted as new information becomes available.

All hunting will be undertaken in a responsible, professional and ethical manner.


THE FOLLOWING GUIDELINES MUST BE ADHERED TO:

PROFESSIONAL HUNTING
All hunting activities in the APNR will be subject to the respective Reserve Warden’s/management discretion, subject to the APNR hunting protocol. All hunting clients must be under the control of an authorised Hunting Outfitter or Professional Hunter (where applicable) and be accompanied by an authorised registered Professional Hunter as well as a suitable Reserve representative.

With regard to hunting of the potentially dangerous species listed below it is recommended that both Professional Hunter and Reserve Representative make use of the dossier compiled on species specific age determination and trophy estimation. All reasonable attempts will be made to adhere to the following:

Elephant
• No elephant may be hunted from breeding herds.
• The hunting of any collared elephant is totally prohibited.
• The categories of elephant that may be hunted are:
 20 – 30 yrs old with a maximum tusk weight of 30 lbs per side.
 30 – 40 yrs max. 40 lbs per side
 45 yrs and older, max. 40 lbs per side
 50 yrs and older, max 60 lbs per side
(These categories may be revisited from time to time through the Joint Committee to ensure sustainable off-takes)
• Each of these classes would be assigned a maximum tusk length, which should aid the hunting outfitter/professional hunter and reserve representative to stay within the weight/age classes.
• The Joint Committee shall jointly agree upon which of the categories of elephant are available for hunting in the respective Reserve.
• Permit condition will state: Animal to be hunted in accordance with APNR protocol and in accordance with the approved off-takes.
• In the hunting of the elephant, it is preferred that the client shoot for a ‘Brain Shot’ with his/her initial shot. By doing this it will be immediately apparent whether the elephant has been wounded or not.
• If the animal falls to the initial brain shot a further shot will be shot at all times to ensure that the animal is dead, either by client or PH.
• If the animal does not immediately fall to the initial brain shot the Professional Hunter and Reserve representative shall both immediately put in a heart/ lung shot and then while the wounded elephant is still visible shall continue to fire further back-up shots, either lung, brain or disabling shots, as preferred.
• Before the initial shot is taken by the client the Reserve representative shall move into a position (clear shooting lane) to enable a clear back-up shot. Only once the PH has received confirmation of this from the Reserve representative shall he advise the client to shoot when comfortable.
• If a heart/ lung shot is preferred as the initial shot by the client the PH and/or the reserve representative will fire back-up shots.
• Within a distance of 1km from the KNP boundary a brain shot will be mandatory for the first shot.
• A coup de grace shot will be done at all times to conclude the hunt.


Buffalo
• Only fully mature buffalo bulls with fully hardened bosses, of 12 years or older may be hunted. Bulls younger than this are in all likelihood still breeding animals. These 12 yr and older individuals can be identified by outward appearance using the dossier provided as a guide.
• The following categories of Buffalo bulls may be hunted in the APNR:-
 Trophy bulls, 40” (Rowland Ward spread) and above.
 Classical buffalo bulls, 38” spread and less.
 ‘Dagga Boy’ buffalo bulls, 37” spread and less.
• Mature cows without dependant calves may also be hunted.
• A back-up shot by either the Client, PH or Reserve Representative or preferably all, will be shot at all times to ensure that the trophy animal is not lost.


Lion
• Only male lions of 6 years and older may be hunted.
• The aging of the lion should be done according to the aging structure by Viljoen and Packer et al.
• Reasonable steps should be taken to gain knowledge of the males with pride affiliations and their ages. Thereby ensuring that pride males under the age of 6 years are not selected.
• Males should not be hunted in the presence of females.
• Lions should not be baited using dead bait and all prohibited hunting methods stipulated in the TOPS regulations (2007, Item 26) should be adhered to.
• All normal accepted hunting ethics should apply including those stipulated in the TOPS regulations (2007, Item 24) (Appendix 3).
• Lions showing the recessive Leucistic gene, commonly known as ‘White Lions’ may not be hunted.


Leopard
• Only adult male leopard may be hunted.
• The baiting of leopard and hunting on the bait is permitted under Provincial policy and TOPS regulations (Appendix 3).
• It is recommended that the lodges and land owners be consulted in this process since they have a sound working knowledge of leopard in their traversing areas.


White Rhino
After consultation with rhino experts, the following were deemed to be reasonable guidelines to practically apply to white rhino hunting.

• Only adult bulls may be hunted.
• The bull should adhere to the following criteria:
o The back horn length should not be less than 8 inches.
o The SCI (Safari Club International) total score should not be less than 88.
• Animals may not be hunted in the presence of other rhinos (within sighting distance).
• All TOPS regulations related to white rhino should be adhered to.



Hippo
It is recommended that only adult or past-prime hippo bulls be considered for hunting. Fully-grown, adult males are usually easily recognised by their bigger heads and relatively thicker necks. Such individuals generally also have clear scars as a result of regular or occasional territorial conflicts.

• Animals should be single individuals in dams or pools away or not near other hippos, particularly breeding groups. This will ensure that other hippos are not disturbed, especially when young calves are present, this will ensure that the animal is a past-breeding bull.
• Hippo may be hunted while in a water body.
• It is preferred that hippos be hunted in dams away from rivers (Olifants & Klaserie) or on land.
• Hippo bulls that show clear signs of territorial disputes should be selected.


RESERVE REPRESENTATION
• The reserves representative should be appropriately qualified and experienced, and fulfil the following criteria:
 Legally Competent with the appropriate firearm (SAPS Competency certificate) that is mentioned below, for back up on dangerous game and should have passed the ‘FGASA’ or ‘KNP Advanced Rifle Handling for Guiding’ qualification.
 The individual should have at least 5 years Professional Working Experience as a Game Ranger, FGASA DG Guide or Professional Hunter that includes the pursuit of Dangerous Game.
 Must have a good working knowledge of the reserve including roads, camps, boundaries and other infrastructure
 A Landowner or his direct family cannot be a reserve representative and must be an employee of the reserve. It is the reserves prerogative to elect the reserve representative.
 The final decision on the suitability of a selected trophy animal (size and age class) lies with the reserve representative.
 The animal can only be shot with consent from the reserve representative.


ETHICS
• The obligation is acknowledged to respect animals and appreciate that they are sensitive to pain, respond to stress and may remember such experiences.
• The APNR acknowledges the legitimacy of hunting animals from wild animal populations subject to compliance with the highest moral and ethical standards in recognition of a reverence for life and good sportsmanship.
• To comply with the prerequisites of good sportsmanship, hunting should be conducted according to set rules to ensure that the spirit of fairness is honoured.
• A fair hunt may be defined as a competition in which the tracking and shooting skills of the hunter are pitched against the evasive abilities of the hunted.
• Professional and owner hunting must be executed on foot with only limited artificial aid.
• The hunter must preferably be physically fit and able to cope with climatic and environmental conditions.
• The animal must be within its natural habitat under free-roaming conditions and must be in a position to escape the hunter.
• An aircraft may not be used for the location of trophy animals immediately prior to or during the hunt.
• All precautions should be taken to ensure that the possibility of wounding an animal is limited to the minimum.
• The weapons and ammunition used must be adequate to ensure quick and humane kills and that the hunter and the PH must prove his/her proficiency in the use of the weapons before commencing the hunt.
• A minimum of a .375 H&H Mag is required for elephant, buffalo, lion, hippo & rhino.
• The minimum calibre approved for leopard hunting is .270 with standard ballistics of the .270 Winchester cartridge or greater.
• The minimum weight requirement for bullets for the hunting of elephant, rhino and hippo is 286 grain or heavier bullet of monolithic solid or full metal jacket construction.
• It is recommended that both PH and Reserve Representative carry larger and more powerful calibres than the minimums listed above.
• The code of ethics of the South African Hunters Association should be strictly adhered to (PHASA).
• At all times only the highest levels of professional conduct should apply.


GENERAL
• This protocol will be discussed by the Warden or his representative and agreed upon before commencement of the hunt with the professional hunter and his client, furthermore this protocol will be signed by professional hunter and his client prior to the commencement of the hunt.
• This protocol will be attached to all tender documents as well as landowner permits.
• It is imperative that the hunt be conducted as professionally and clinically as possible.
• It is thus incumbent upon the Warden or his representative to ensure that the professional hunter back his client up and if in the Warden or his representative's assessment, this still isn’t adequate to ensure a swift death, he will immediately endeavour to destroy the animal himself.
• Due cognisance will be taken of owner and lodge sensitivities to hunting and the hunt will be conducted in a way which has the least impact upon these vital components the Reserves.
• Communication between management and landowner (calling on and informing him of their presence on his property) and management and the lodges (informing them of the hunt beforehand and of the potential impact it may have on their operation if it so develops; by radio during the hunt) is vital to the sustainability of professional hunting in our Reserves.
• Daily hunting cut - off times will be at the discretion of the Warden or the Reserve representative accompanying the hunt.
• Hunting of any collared animals is prohibited.
• All hunted animals should be covered with a canvas when transported to slaughtering facilities.

HUNTING OUTFITTERS

Due to the sensitivity of the hunting industry, the APNR reserves will only do business with reputable outfitter companies and take effort to ensure that outfitter companies are not involved in illegal activities associated with the hunting industry. The following steps should be taken to ensure this:
• Hunting outfitter that is in good standing with PHASA & provincial authorities will be favoured during the tender process.
• Individual reserves should get clearance from PHASA on every outfitter company before tenders are awarded.
• The outfitter must be registered with the relevant province.
• The outfitter remains responsible towards the client in terms of trophy size.


IMPORTANT NOTE

The APNR shares a common boundary with the Kruger National Park and a concession has been granted by the KNP with regard to the reserves utilising the KNP boundary road during hunting operations as this road falls within the KNP. Any reserve misusing this concession runs the risk of foregoing this privilege. In line with the above the following must be adhered to:

• The boundary road is only to be used for traversing from one point to another and for locating tracks. No hunting is to take place from the boundary.
• All weapons are to be bagged and out of view when traversing this road.
• The Wardens of the Reserves and the Kingfisherspruit Section Ranger are to communicate with one another regarding hunting parties in the APNR and conflicting activities in the KNP.
• If an animal is wounded on a hunt and seems to be heading towards the KNP border the Reserve representative on the hunt must contact the Kingfisherspruit Section ranger in the KNP and the MTPA and inform him/her of the situation.
• The Kingfisherspruit Section Ranger will then contact the relevant KNP Section Ranger into who’s Section the wounded animal has crossed.
• Should the animal cross over into the KNP the hunt stops at the boundary and the Kingfisherspruit Section ranger must be summoned to do the follow-up. The animal may not be pursued into the KNP.
• The Kingfisherspruit Section ranger, at his discretion, may invite the Reserve representative and/or a tracker to accompany him (without a firearm). The hunter can be invited, BUT WILL NOT BE PERMITTED TO SHOOT THE WOUNDED ANIMAL, or carry a firearm. This invitation is at the discretion of the Section Ranger.
• The Kingfisherspruit Section ranger will do the follow-up and destroy the animal with or without the Reserve representative/hunter or anybody else being present.
• Once the animal has been destroyed in the KNP, or if it is proven to be wounded when/on crossing into the KNP, a penalty of up to 50% of the total hunt price may be imposed on the Reserve at the discretion of the KNP. If the animal was bought as part of a package then value of the trophy animal shall be determined as tender prices of single animals within the reserve.
• The final decision on making the trophy available to the reserve rests with the KNP, until the penalty has been paid in full.
• Any expenses such as helicopter time etc will be for the account of the Outfitter/Hunter, if such is required to locate a wounded animal
• In the event that a wounded animal crosses into the KNP, the Kingfisherspruit Section ranger and the Reserve manager will investigate the incident and submit a detailed report to KNP management.


Signed in acceptance of the outlined conditions presented above on
this……………....…. day of ……………………..…….. 20…………………..


Professional hunter / outfitter …………………………………………………
(Print name and sign)

Client ……………………………………………………………………............
(Print name and sign)


Reserve representative ……………………………………………………………………..
(Print name and sign)


Witness (2) …………………………………………………………………….
(Print name and sign)

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
just out of curiosity, JK, what would it have cost the hunter to shoot an 80lb elephant in fines( not to mention a for sure Lacey Act violation for breaking foreign game laws)????? it seems some here would have bit the bullet, broken the law and paid the costs. i have to think Peter knew the regulations but figured he could make a plan.....

JDollar

I could not even tell you off hand, I will get it from the Reserve Monday, it has never been used against a client or Outfitter as this rule/law has never been broken by a client.

as you will see in the Protocol I posted, it is the reserve representative who has the last say on which animal is finally harvested,

There have been instances when a bull is 5lb or 10lb over the weight category stated but since it was the reserve representative who made the call, he is responsible for his actions and not the Outfitter or Client,

any one who has hunted a lot of Elephant will know that Ivory is very difficult to judge to a T so sometimes honest mistakes happen, especially when judging the diameter of the Ivory, if you are 1 " out could be 10lb easy,

The Reserve will then investigate if the reserve representative made a good call or not.

But in no instance will the Outfitter be able to say to his client, shot and pay later.

Sounds to me, JK, that if shooting the subject bull caused trouble, the reserve rep should've taken the heat, not the PH or outfitter. No?

100% correct that is what did happen, client did not get effected at all.

So if a representative from the APNR is along on the hunt why would he allow a hunter to harvest a bull outside the rules of the APNR?

You are in effect transgressing the rules of the APNR, not that of a national law. Rules are rules, not the law.

Do not get me wrong, if I hunt your property the first thing I ask are what are your rules and by golly I'll stick to them because I'd like to be welcome to hunt your property again.