All right, just curious because snakes freak me out soo incredibly much. When encountering black mambas in africa, how often do hunters actually kill them? do you always let them go? I of course have worries that if people killed every snake they saw there would be rodent and other pest problems. But now and again I don't think it woudl hurt the population?

Anybody killed on before and had a belt made maybe? Is it even legal to kill them and would it be legal to keep the skin?

I have heard that it is dangerous to try and kill them with a gun, if you don't succeed they come after you? shotgun the only way to do it?

Red

Here is one that'll stand your hair on end. Go to day 8, scroll down to the mamba video.

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/LIVEHUNTS/Leopard2004/INDEX.CFM?DAY=8

I've never been much bothered by snakes in Africa.

Our PH in Namibia stepped over this one and then shot after a bit of dancing.



We saw several cobras on that trip as well and the PH missed them with his Colt Python. I kept teasing him that he was using the wrong tool for the job... I don't think he got it (Colt Cobras just aren't as popular).

Kyler

Dago Red,

The Momba was the only snake I've seen the PH avoid like the plaque. We passed one in the vehicle and he ignored my request to go back and look at it.

As Nitro said snakes aren't real much of an issue particularly during the dry season. I think in total I've seen 3 pythons, 1 spitting cobra, the momba I mentioned, 1 puff adder and a little green job that was non poisonous. On most safaris I have not seen any snakes and I would think that was more the norm for most safaris.

As for killing any snake when in the bush I see no need. If it was a deadly variety and living in the camp wood pile maybe I'd feel differently.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
I kept teasing him that he was using the wrong tool for the job... I don't think he got it (Colt Cobras just aren't as popular).

Kyler, you are funny.

In two safaris, I have only seen one snake. It was a Python (Kyler's PH had the right tool for this snake ). It just happened to be in our path and the PH and first tracker stepped over it without notice.

The funny thing was that the 2nd tracker saw the snake and FREAKED OUT! As a result the PH, Game Scout and I all put our rifles to our shoulders. We were all scanning the brush looking for the lion/leopard/rhino/elephant/buffalo/hippo/etc. that we were certain was attacking us based upon the trackers reaction/antics.

Tim

quote:

I've never been much bothered by snakes in Africa.

And therein is the fact....snakes are low risk. In SA you are 20 times more likley to die from lightning.

Snakes are small, slow and quite stupid, why would anyone be sacred of them? We drive steel boxes at 100kmh everyday without a second thought...and worry about 200grams of reptilian brained, legless ectotherm...makes no sense. Snakes become a lot more dangerous when you handle or harrass them, so don't

You may see one or two (perhaps more if you are lucky) on a hunt.

I find it ironic that men strive to hunt huge , far more intelligent mammals that we seek out due to their danger and risk and take pride in the risk associated therein, but get knickers in a knot about a snake?

How would one motivate that fear in light of hunting dangerous game. Religio-cultural endocrination from our youth?

If you look at it rationally it is very wierd!

I shot a cape cobra in Namibia, September of '04. It was coiled in a bush aside of the trail. Two black trackers started screaming bloody murder and then my PH Fred Burchell said shoot it, shoot it quick! I didn't do any pre-hunt range practice from 5 feet but I managed to put a .338 Barnes X into it on the first try. That was my toughest shot the whole safari. Think about it...the crosshairs are 1 1\2" above the bore. Put them right on target and you shoot under the snake at a distance of 5 feet. Somehow the skin got lost in the salt shed along with the kudu ear with a bullet hole through it.

Jim Stafford sang, "I don't like spiders and snakes." Me neither.

Kayaker, everything you say may be right, but, if so, then why are the African trackers more freaked out then we are? That is my impression and this was verified by the PH on my (one) hunt in Namibia. At one point we were looking for Impala and the tracker was pointing to the ground and then started looking up at a tree we were walking under saying somthing like "slang". Turns out he saw the unmistakeable "tracks" of a snake that he thought had climbed up the tree right above us. The tracks were of a python. We saw 2 black mambas on my hunt.Both of them lived in termite mounds.
Peter.

hello all, back after a long absence,
FYI please do not shoot any snake whilst on hunt in Zambia Highly illegal as even snakes are considered to be part of flora and fauna and anything shot in a GMA "hunting area" needs a permit

I usually kill snakes if they're in the house of camp for safety reasons- but why kill them in the bush..... they were there before I was and I'm the intruder in their home. - Part of the reason we like going to the bush is the element of danger, so why try to eliminate part of that very thing we enjoy.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that kills snakes in the bush without very good reason is just showing a high degree of ignorance of their environment.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:


As far as I'm concerned, anyone that kills snakes in the bush without very good reason is just showing a high degree of ignorance of their environment.

Well said

Peter, the reason the trackers are more scared of snakes than most men is because of the beliefs the trackers have. Snakes are a symbol of the ancestors coming back and haunting them, it is associated with evil. You will very selddom find a tracker/African trying to kill a snake even if armed. They will rather turn, run and scream like hell before stopping to have a second look. Can be quite amusing. I can promise you one thing: try placing a rubber snake around the campfire at night. Even the toughest, bravest of men will brake the high jump record and clear the campfire with room to spare if they saw nearly step on a snake.

I also think the fear is psychological. Some association that was created when you are small. I am scared of snakes but can handle spiders. In total, I have seen about 3 snakes in the wild in all my life. I also ran like hell. The other snakes I have seen are the harmless ones behind glass shields.

I'm sure a few of us here are also afraid of the dark. You know that feeling when you go outside alone in the pitch dark, that feeling when your balls creep up into your stomach???

We had a baby rattler under our Skeet clubhouse once. As I was volunteering there, I got a shovel and tried to pick him up to relocate him. For the life of me, I couldn't get him on the shovel, he would either strike it or wriggle off.
One of the elderly gents grabbed the shovel, and said "Paul, let me show you how it's done" before promptly smashing the shovel down onto the snake!!

quote:

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that kills snakes in the bush without very good reason is just showing a high degree of ignorance of their environment.

AMEN!!!

To me hunting is about the 'package' , learning about and appreciating your environment.

As alluded to as well, in mnay situations, shooting a snake may be highly illegal (and we all get well on the band wagon about poachers steal game...so why would you poach by shooting a snake????)

How do you guys feel about the rattlesnake roundups?

I don't kill snakes but I also don't like them...In the Selous in early August saw 5 mambas and killed the one that attacked us..
Their was venom on the trackers back...


Mike

I for one would love to have a belt made from a mamba or puff adder.

Who has ever killed a snake with a .22 shotshell? Around the house I have killed quite a few cape cobras with .38 Spl. shotshell ammo. but I wonder how would a .22 shotshell work? Especially during the hot season I prefer to pocket my Walther TPH .22 instead of the S&W Centennial Airweight.

I'm a firm believer of the statement from the Bible that the serpent would forever try to bite me on the heel and I would forever try to kill him. I have NO time for them. ALL snakes are deadly and I will endeavor to make them extinct if given the opportunity. The only thing I am truly terrified of in all the world is a snake. Luckily I have SEEN very few in Zimbabwe. This one was near Gweru on farm of a friend where we were hunting Wildebeest. It was a female with 3 young. I would say it was about 15/20ft long.

I once had the head of one in my scope for about a minute, from about 10 paces> He was half erect, and not moving. We stared at each other, and I tell you it felt a lot longer than a minute. Here's what was going through my mind: the scope is on, I am shooting offhand; seems steady but offhand is never reliable; how low is my bullet at 10 yards vs. crosshairs; and what is this snake going to do if I shoot and miss. The tracker said shoot. I just kept the crosshairs on him, finger on trigger, and waited. Then the mamba set back down and disappeared into the bush.

Russ,

You did the right, or proper or correct, thing: Get ready to defend yourself if a snake is 10 ft from you, aim, but hold your fire. In 99.9 % of all cases the snake will soon go away!

These are a few questions more for the PH's active on this forum:
Has any one of your clients ever killed a mamba or any other dangerous snake while on safari?
Was the snake 'hunted' 100.00% within the legal framework? Here I mean written permission or transfer of hunting rights specifically mentioning that a mamba may be hunted? Did you have a signed remuneration agreement in which the cost of the trophy, or the fact that it would be free of charge, was stated?

Why risk getting into trouble with your Nature Coservation guy for allowing a client to kill a snake?[Even though the chance of being caught is very low! Remember the saying that ethics is what you do when no-one is looking!]

In 24 years of Professional Hunting I,ve seen very few snakes and was in slight danger only once - and that was caused through my own stupidity! Let the visiting clients leave the snakes alone!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren.

quote:

I'm a firm believer of the statement from the Bible that the serpent would forever try to bite me on the heel and I would forever try to kill him. I have NO time for them. ALL snakes are deadly and I will endeavor to make them extinct if given the opportunity.

I am not trying to begin a juvenile pissing match, but I really battle to understand this mentality. I really do. How can they all be deadly?

Make them extinct? Is that part of the hunters code?

As Andrew says, killing them is often poaching...so I am assuming many hunters who kill them when not really threatened are OK with poaching? So its OK to kill what ever you want, no license, no permission? I see....

OK to kill snakes, but god help a poacher who snares an impala. (and this may be based only on an interpretation of scriptures? -wow)

Did God say your car was safe? How about processed food?

PS what is a 'serpent' by definition? a 'snake'? How about a leggless lizard, which is not part of order serpentes, but a 'snake' looker non the less?

I have found over time that it is true that the snake is more afraid of us,, then we are of them.. I have always respected them, but to this day, any venomous ones are died at first sighting, and close to hreath or heart.

22 rat shot or birdshot has never worked well for me, handloaded 7's or 8's in the 357 or 44 worked way better

Kayaker,
It's obvious you have NEVER been terrified of anything so don't fully understand the meaning of fear. I am also claustrophobic and while I fully understand there is no danger presented in confined places I still panic when presented with the situation. As to the Bible reference I was merely pointing out that this fear or confrontation with serpents goes rather far back in history and If you believe in the Biblical teachings was instituted by God. I don't like snakes, I have never liked snakes and I will never like snakes. End of story.

Maybe we should stop and think about this first..... if we adopt the policy of kill it because it scares you, or might kill you, where do you stop...... If we adopted that policy with everything, we'd soon have no dangerous game left and would have killed the very thing that draws us all to Africa.

One of the problems might be, that a lot of people misunderstand snakes..... Snakes aren't setting out to kill you, they're just being snakes.... I've kicked aroud Africa for 27 years now and have had numerous close encounters with snakes......sometimes very close ones, but I've never even come close to being bitten and they have always retreated if they have the chance to do so.

We're all very quick to preach how hunting helps conserve the game populations..... lets try to be reasonable and practice what we preach and adopt the attitude of killing them when they come into our areas such as camp/house etc. But why not leave them the hell alone if we come across them in the bush.......

I should add that when I do have to kill a snake in camp or house etc, I usually use a Zulu asagaii or my Maasai Simeh (long knife).... both do the job extremely well. FWIW in 27 years, in 27 years I've probably only ever killed about 5 or 6 snakes.......

As hunters interested in public opinion of us and our sport, it behooves us to understand snakes as well as all other creatures in our environment, and to treat all with respect.

As an aside, I happen to know a PH in Zim who is quite the herpitologist and collector. During the war, he captured an enemy fighter and allowed a non-poisonous snake to bite him. He then offered the "anti-venom", got confession and info, then refused the shot. He reported that the poor fellow went crazy, and never recovered. Interesting story, maybe even true.

The funny thing is I don't hunt dangerous game because I'm afraid of them. I don't even hunt them because they are dangerous. The reasons I hunt are a lot more complex than fear. I truly derive as much satisfaction from plains game hunting as I do from hunting 'dangerous game'. I don't place ANY premium on the dangerous game animals. As to snakes, I don't think the world would be appreciably poorer by their absence. It's my understanding there are no snakes in Ireland and they seem to survive with no ecological problems and I also understand there are none in Hawaii and I've seen no problems there either. The reasons for hunting are many and varied but rarely for any real need and the taking of trophies does not constitute a 'NEED'. Basically they are YOUR personal reasons. And I STILL don't like snakes.

There is only one thing a tracker is more afraid of than a snake.. it's cold weather.

I saw four of them in late August-Early Sept. one of which I stepped on(a five to six footer) saw one about nine feet beside our truck with half its body up. Another on when we ran over it and the driver stopped and it rose up to try and get us on the back of the truck. A ten footer came through the bushes at about six feet tall making all kinds of creepy noises. I told my wife i am going to start playing golf and wearing pink after these encounters!

ya but - I want a big one to mount. The general idea is to have it mounted in striking pose and sort of put it on a rocker. Then it goes in my office and when a pesky salesman comes in I kick the rocker a bit, the snake head moves toward him about eye level. He screams, runs out the door and dowsn't come back. Good idea huh

If we are going to submit to all our fears then the first thing we will have to make extint (the most dangerous thing on this earth) is us (people). Fear is brought about by ignorence, a plain and simple lack of information and understanding.

I collect poisonous snake skins and I think a mamba skin would make (several) neat hat bands.

I have a puff adder skin from my first safari. Unfortunately, a fellow hunter blew a big hole in mid-way through it before I could stop him. I usually kill snakes by popping them across the neck with a stiff stick. That doesn't mess up the skin. Snakes are surprisingly fragile, and even a well thrown rock will break them down.

I once passed on an opportunity to collect a mamba skin because we were hot on the heels of a gemsbok (the tracker nearly stepped on it). My PH skipped rocks across its back until the mamba went up a tree. It would take a LOOOOOONG stick for me to try my "neck pop" on a mamba!