I suspect that at least 95% of the hunters I send to Africa take handloaded ammo with them, and that is a lot of hunters over the last 40 years...

Also this business of not having the right headstamp is a croc also..I send a lot of wildcatters to Africa..

I don't know where some of this stuff gets started, but most of it is on the internet.

One of us should comprise a BS rumor list..Maybe we should all comprise a BS rumor list on hunting and guns..that would be interesting if nothing else, probably would cause a lot of commotion also...

I have only taken my handloaded ammo to Africa. 2 trips and going on my third no problems so far.

I can make much better ammunition than any factory, at least for my barrels. It is sort of like folding your own parachute. I'll live or die by my loads, but I am not willing to bank on what someone else did.

Just my opinion.

TJB

Gotta agree with Wooly on this one.
A friend of mine is a well known Guide in Alaska. If he knows you are using handloads, he will give you factory loads and ask you to use them. I wonder why? Reckon he has had experience with some handloaders who were not careful enough and they had problems with their handloads? I'm sure everybody here is careful and never had any problems, but, could you say that for everyone that handloads? Probably not.
I've been handloading since 1955. When I went to Africa, I took factory Winchester Failsafes. They worked great.
I've never had a misfire with factory or handloads. Guess I'm lucky.

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A friend of mine is a well known Guide in Alaska. If he knows you are using handloads, he will give you factory loads and ask you to use them. I wonder why?

Ask or "tell"? Don't know and don't care but if a PH, Guide, What-ever, told me that, the hunt is over, not just for his arrogance but for his ignorance. Carefully loaded hand loads are just as reliable and in my opinion, even more so. jorge

All my Big Game, including Dangerous Big Game has been taken with my handloads. I wouldn't trust any other!

Taylorce 1, Best luck on getting to Africa, Obviously you have experienced it (Uganda) so you know what you are missing. That being said I have to agree with Shikari above. I have been to Africa 4 times and have hunted with 6 different professional hunters, everyone of which was more than happy to see that I handloaded my own ammo for several reasons. Firstly none of them had ever seen handloaded ammo fail and most importantly all of the PH's were of the same oppinion that a person who brings handloaded ammo is more likely to spend more time that the average hunter shooting his rifles, aka more trigger time better shooting, no wounded animals....
My 2cts.
Jason

In 13 safaris, I have never had a PH even ask about what type of ammo I was using let alone whether it was factory or handloads. They were more interested in how safely I carried my rifle than what was in it.

465H&H

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If you're likely to take klippies or duiker with a .375 on a one-gun trip it better be able to group WAY better than 3-5". Personally, mine will take the heads off Francolin at 40 yards, which I consider a necessity

Mine, also.

As a handloader I've gotten good results with once fired - neck sized brass. Several replies in this post indicate "fully sized" cases! Does this defeat the purpose of one fired - fire formed to the chamber of the rifle it will be used in?

Just to set the record straight, I don't think anyone could argue that good handloads are more consistent, reliable and accurate than factory loads. Furthermore, folks who reload are generally more knowledgeable about their rifle, and have greater confidence in their ability to hit their target. My only point was that during my last several hunts, both at home and in Africa, I found that I didn't need that extra margin to have a succesful and enjoyable hunt.

I'm sure everyone here is a safe and cautious handloader, and one who never exceeds published data and always backs down from excessive pressure signs. However, we all know the yahoo that brags about the secret load he has discovered that achieves 500'/s over maximum published velocities. I like to stand a long way behind these guys at the range.

Put yourself in a PH's position. When you climb off the plane, he doesn't know if you're the first kind of reloader or the second. That's why the first couple of days of a hunt are spent in the hunter and the guide gingerly testing each other out. Having said that, I've never heard of a guide requesting that a hunter use factory loads only (other than on the internet!). The quality and appropriateness of a hunter's ammo (factory or reloads) is just another of those variables that have to be sorted out in the opening days of a hunt.

Personally, I'm just burnt out on reloading. I think it is because I've using reloading as a magic bullet (so to speak! ) to get a crap rifle to shoot accurately. Now I look for a rifle to tell me that it wants to be accurate in the first box of ammo. If it doesn't, I don't waste my time on it.

Recently, I've been looking at a 7x64. If I jump at it, there's no question I'll be getting back into reloading.

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As a handloader I've gotten good results with once fired - neck sized brass. Several replies in this post indicate "fully sized" cases! Does this defeat the purpose of one fired - fire formed to the chamber of the rifle it will be used in?

Yes, it does defeat the purpose. The thread was originally started in reference to African big game, likely the dangerous kind, however. Fully-sized brass gives the case a bit of "wiggle-room" in the chamber, so to speak, to help ensure reliable chambering.

Sergeant, your reply answers my question to the point - "wiggle room" when possibly life threatening situations exist. Not to change this thread but I've learned more from this forum than all the publications ever printed. You "one of us" fraternity can be proud of your efforts in sharing info.

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Originally posted by Sergeant_Sabre:

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As a handloader I've gotten good results with once fired - neck sized brass. Several replies in this post indicate "fully sized" cases! Does this defeat the purpose of one fired - fire formed to the chamber of the rifle it will be used in?

Yes, it does defeat the purpose. The thread was originally started in reference to African big game, likely the dangerous kind, however. Fully-sized brass gives the case a bit of "wiggle-room" in the chamber, so to speak, to help ensure reliable chambering.

I definatly suggest full length resizing and that wiggle room is a wonderful thing when a big old buff is blowing snot in your shirt pocket..

I would also suggest that you run every round through your gun before leaving home to hunt dangerous game..sometimes you only have a window of opertunity, take advantage of it be secure in knowing your ammo will feed and go bang.

BTW I have seen factory ammo fail on ocassion, its not foolproof...

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Originally posted by TJ:
Gotta agree with Wooly on this one.
A friend of mine is a well known Guide in Alaska. If he knows you are using handloads, he will give you factory loads and ask you to use them. I wonder why?

Probably because he is a close minded, know-it-all, ass!

This reminds me of a man who told me he would not allow a 7mm Rem Mag on his ranch to hunt whitetail! When I ask him if he allowed a 30-30 he said "yes that is a good deer rifle". This was in the Chisos Mountains of Texas where the average shot is 200 yds plus, cross canyon shooting! His reasoning was, some idiot told him a 7mm mag rifle shoots too fast, and just whizzes right through, and just leaves a small hole, and you will loose the deer, so the 7mm mag was forbidden, no exceptions!

...............DUMB!

I'm afraid, if your guide told me I couldn't use my handloads, on a hunt with him, he would be refunding my money, and I'd be finding some one with a little more savvy to hunt with! Lets not forget who is working for whom, here!

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
I definatly suggest full length resizing and that wiggle room is a wonderful thing when a big old buff is blowing snot in your shirt pocket..

I would also suggest that you run every round through your gun before leaving home to hunt dangerous game..

BTW I have seen factory ammo fail on ocassion, its not foolproof...

The above all goes without saying! I've seen far more bad factory ammo than I have handloads, especially 458 Win Mag ammo of the late 50s! I have been handloading everything for 57 yrs,since late 1950, and I have never had a round get into the field that wouldn't chamber in my rifle, or shoot properly, and I've never had a missfire, or hangfire in even one of my handloads in all that time. I cretainly cannot say that for all the factory stuff I've seen used!

Ray's comment about running EVERY round of ammo through your rifle before leaving home is a salient point. I've seen both handloads and commercial rounds that would not feed, yet all previous rounds fed like magic.
Also, if the trip was long, run those rounds through your rifle once in camp. Not unlikely is the chance that something bumped (crashed) into a bag and knocked something out of kilter.
Murphy is alive and well!

All answers are good, but the thing I would caution is don't take a real hopped up load even if it shoots good in your rifle, as my concern would be extraction not chambering. Like Ray mentioned, if something was looking to eat your lunch and you had a failure to extract then you couldn't even get a sandwich out of the deal!

[QUOTE] First, I am not a handloader as I never saw the need to be one. I understand the hobby for what it is. Hunting, however, does not require sub-minute of angle hits. The heart/lung shot on most game is what is desired, so if you can place all your hits within a 3-5" circle at 100 yards, you will make one shot kills while hunting big game. My factory Browning A-Bolt .300wm shoots 1.5" at 100 yards with factory ammunition.


Have we been reading this post wrong? If he meant that if the shooter has the ability to to keep his shots in 3-5 inches from field positions he is going to kill a lot of game then that changes the meaning alot. The ability to hit a 100 yard snuff-can off-hand or from sticks isn't aided much by a 1" rifle as compared to his 1 1/2" Browning. I don't see where he states that a 5 MOA rifle is something to be desired.

I've been on safari twice so far. First hunt, three out of four of us used handloads with zero problems in .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 6.5x55mm and 9.3x64mm. Second hunt two using handloads and two more using factory ammo. I use RWS H-Mantles and Nosler Partitions myself, the others use Noslers and a custom 9.3mm slug from Switzerland. I'll be using more handloaded .30-06 and 9.3x62mm on my next hunt. As an aside, even our PH handloads, and I can vouch for the performance of his .30-06 loads too!

It is all in the degree of care and consideration you heap on your reloading efforts as to how "good" you handloads will be. Use new or once fired brass for your hunting ammo, the best premium bullet that shoots in your rifle, good primers, and carefully measured powder charges! Having said that, our PH loads Remington Core-Lokts purchased in bulk, and they seem to work well too.

The Kudu in the pic fell to one .30 Nosler 220 grain Partition.

LLS

I believe that most if not all of us feel the same way. That handloads have taken most of the game that we have harvested. The last time I used factory ammo was on a Moose hunt in 1986. I was using a .300 Wby. Mag., and at that time I couldn't get my handloads to shoot as fast, or accurate as Weatherby factory ammo did. Since the arrival of IMR 7828 I no longer have that problem. If anything I believe that handloaders have alittle more knowledge on shooting then shooters that don't handload.

I may be wrong (that has happened), but I don't believe that the reloader who brags about getting 3000fps out of his 06 with 180gr bullets is going on many safaris for DG.

As Harry Callahan remarked, "A man's got to know his limitations." When you get ready to hunt DG, you'd better get in touch with your limitations. If you reload, you have to do it right. (See earlier post.) If you use factory bullets, you have to check each bullet to include cycling it through the rifle. And, you'd better know your rifle and your game.

When you pay attention to the details, the big things take care of themselves (or you find yourself able to "sort them out.") Failing to take care of the details can lead to "adventures." A successful hunt without adventures may be dull reading and not present much to talk about around the camp fire ("there I was a 30,000 feet, flat on my back . . . ") but there is a certain glow of satisfaction of getting it right. One of those, "Yeah!" moments that you can only share with real pros, quite a number of which show up around here. Kudude

In regard to the 3-5 inch accuracy comment- I believe that from field conditions/postions, a hunter should be able to keep his rounds (on medium to large game with a satisfactory caliber)in a group this size at about 100 yards. Of course, this means that the rifle, fired for "accuracy" from a bench, should much better than that.

Fact is, most rifle/ammo combination will usually shoot better than most of us can hold.

Best bet is to load up a decent quantity of a proven full power "take to the hunting grounds" load, and practice from field type postions and varying ranges in vary9ng Wx conditions.

Confidence comes from hitting what you aim at, not the "technical" accuracy of a rifle/ammo combination. Games cares not on the theoretical, but rather the actual, performance of the hunter.

As a Soldier, I know that shooting in the field is much more dynamic than any range practice, even live fire CQB etc-the targets fight back and you must terminate threats quickly or they will you. Although I've never hunted a lion, I assume they have the same mentality-stop what ever it is that just hurt me-in the US ,we call it the inalienable right to self-defense.

God bless