I know Pieter Kat and his "friends" monitors this site and would ban any discourse challenging his statements on his LION AID site or FB page so decided to post this here. Below is a quote taken from his site under the Lion Aid Projects section (Which by the way has just 6 articles and none about a project that is actually taken off on the gorund!).

"The head of the Tanzania Professional Hunting Association has blamed the Maasai for killing lions in Tanzania at a great rate. Conflict between livestock and lions is nothing new in the Tarangire area – researcher Bernard Kissui estimates that 226 lions have been killed in the area between 2004-2013, or an average of about 23 lions per year. A bit of hypocrisy by the hunters as 1,653 adult and subadult male lions were shot as trophies in Tanzania during 2003-2012. There must be some puzzlement among rural communities as foreign hunters are entitled to kill lions for entertainment, but lions cannot be killed to protect livelihoods and indeed human lives."

I mean, seriously? How misleading can you be without being labelled as slanderous? And all with the sole objective of falsely convincing unsuspecting people to give you their hard earned money! What a POS this man is....

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
I know Pieter Kat and his "friends" monitors this site and would ban any discourse challenging his statements on his LION AID site or FB page so decided to post this here. Below is a quote taken from his site under the Lion Aid Projects section (Which by the way has just 6 articles and none about a project that is actually taken off on the gorund!).

"The head of the Tanzania Professional Hunting Association has blamed the Maasai for killing lions in Tanzania at a great rate. Conflict between livestock and lions is nothing new in the Tarangire area – researcher Bernard Kissui estimates that 226 lions have been killed in the area between 2004-2013, or an average of about 23 lions per year. A bit of hypocrisy by the hunters as 1,653 adult and subadult male lions were shot as trophies in Tanzania during 2003-2012. There must be some puzzlement among rural communities as foreign hunters are entitled to kill lions for entertainment, but lions cannot be killed to protect livelihoods and indeed human lives."

I mean, seriously? How misleading can you be without being labelled as slanderous? And all with the sole objective of falsely convincing unsuspecting people to give you their hard earned money! What a POS this man is....

Is that his real name Kat??

May be that is why he started this crooked organization to make money for him??

I suppose old Kat does not know the meaning of being a bloody hypocrite, by not being able to face facts when others post on his FB page??

He deletes posts that show how wrong his argument is, and banns those he disagrees with!

A perfect example of what a hypocrite is!

I get together with school kids and their teachers regularly, as many do studies on animals we have.

And I always make a point of using Lionaid as example of what is wrong with Western attitudes towards conservation.

Kat is busy making money from ignorant people who are not prepared to find what the truth is.

As his article above shows, he is playing the emotional card on city dwellers who would not know zilch about conservation.

I bet those who leave their dogs and cats in a locked room, and go on holiday for a couple of weeks, leaving TINNED food for the animals, are the same people who donate to him!

What a bloody loser!

How can one sleep at night by lying so much just to justify his own convoluted ideas??

Amazing!!! There's a page on GB "Wildlife of Zambia" asking to sign a petition to the Minister to revoke the lifting of them ban.

I posted, to ask, that people shouldn't rush into signing petitions they don't fully understand nor are their livelihoods or that of their land and natural resources effected by such petitions.

Asked them if it was responsible to sign these petitions without the proper info with so much at stake?

I also asked them to instead poll the people involved and especially the rural communities who own the land and are therefore most effected by these decisions, pressed on them that are influenced by people that have no interest further than emotional urge "to do something positive..." or think are doing the right thing.

After all rural communities pay the true price of conservation.
Ask them if a few cats/wildlife should be hunted to help offset costs of Human animal conflicts? Bet the resounding answer would an absolute yes!!

Someone posted the link below on AR. One can see the human animal conflict is still being suppressed. If you listen to the chap charged with trying to convince the rural communities to conserve wildlife, after the ban - they ask "FOR WHAT??"

This kind of uninformed and emotional interference is making relatively straight forward solutions impossible

Must watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Y1bzbXdn0

I readily admit I don't know much about lion hunting or Tanzania. What is the accuracy of the reported 1,653 lions taken by hunters over the ten-year period?

165 lions per year? Supposing the hunting season is six months long, that is nearly a lion per day. I find that very hard to believe.

Paul,

NOTHING coming out of Lionaid has any relation to the truth.

It is a crooked organization, run by crooks to brain wash the ignorant city masses!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Paul,

NOTHING coming out of Lionaid has any relation to the truth.

It is a crooked organization, run by crooks to brain wash the ignorant city masses!

Saeed,

What about setting up a website strictly for Lion whereas we can say our piece?

Could be simply called 'Saving the Lion' or:

The big cat foundation? Not so Born Free etc

quote:

I know Pieter Kat and his "friends" monitors this site and would ban any discourse challenging his statements on his LION AID site or FB page so decided to post this here. Below is a quote taken from his site under the Lion Aid Projects section (Which by the way has just 6 articles and none about a project that is actually taken off on the gorund!)."The head of the Tanzania Professional Hunting Association has blamed the Maasai for killing lions in Tanzania at a great rate. Conflict between livestock and lions is nothing new in the Tarangire area – researcher Bernard Kissui estimates that 226 lions have been killed in the area between 2004-2013, or an average of about 23 lions per year. A bit of hypocrisy by the hunters as 1,653 adult and subadult male lions were shot as trophies in Tanzania during 2003-2012. There must be some puzzlement among rural communities as foreign hunters are entitled to kill lions for entertainment, but lions cannot be killed to protect livelihoods and indeed human lives."I mean, seriously? How misleading can you be without being labelled as slanderous? And all with the sole objective of falsely convincing unsuspecting people to give you their hard earned money! What a POS this man is....

Could you detail what is "misleading" about the above statement?

Bwana - I too as you know have had my go rounds with Kat, and I hope he is in fact reading this. He is grossly mis-informed, outrageously slanderous against the hunting community and most of all (like all of them) he has exactly ZERO "on the ground" experience in wild Africa. All it takes to shut him up is someone with a little knowledge/experience and he turns tail and runs. Frankly, he gets and deserves little attention as his credentials are absolutely NOTHING!!!

The entire premise to LionAid is nothing more than a money milking scheme, sapping dollars from bleeding heart do-gooders who think their money is going to help the wild lion. Shameful!!!! It should be fraud!!!

A simple question Mr. LionAid. When we helped create the "Huntable Lion Definition" a couple of years ago, the TOP 5 leading lion scientists in the world all helped co-author the definition. Which would then obviously lead one to believe that they too support conservation minded lion hunting. Why is it the world should dis-regard the 70 to 80 plus years of scientific experience with wild lions that these people have, in favor of your opinion, backed by lets see....oh that's right, ZERO field experience with the lion?

I feel that Kat & Lionaid need to be held accountable.

We need to get some transparency about how they get funds and how it is used.

I have challenged Dr.Kat many times on their site & on FB about his funding use, his travel etc. total silence and then my post is removed.

How about publicly offering some BIG$$$ as donations with the caveat of transparency?? That should attract attention and warn people about donating to them.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I feel that Kat & Lionaid need to be held accountable.

We need to get some transparency about how they get funds and how it is used.

I have challenged Dr.Kat many times on their site & on FB about his funding use, his travel etc. total silence and then my post is removed.

How about publicly offering some BIG$$$ as donations with the caveat of transparency?? That should attract attention and warn people about donating to them.

Push it and be vocal.

Here's a link to the financial Statements for 'Lion Aid ltd' year ending 2014. Bloody joke.

http://apps.charitycommission...._AC_20140531_E_C.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
165 lions per year? Supposing the hunting season is six months long, that is nearly a lion per day. I find that very hard to believe.

This figure MIGHT equate to the entire annual quota of Lion allocated to the hunting industry in TZ but does not necessarily mean that this figure has been utilized over the past decade as claimed.

Bwanamich would likely have the correct numbers on hand at the touch of a button.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
165 lions per year? Supposing the hunting season is six months long, that is nearly a lion per day. I find that very hard to believe.

This figure MIGHT equate to the entire annual quota of Lion allocated to the hunting industry in TZ but does not necessarily mean that this figure has been utilized over the past decade as claimed.

Bwanamich would likely have the correct numbers on hand at the touch of a button.

Fujo..during the "dark days" of overshooting it may have been that figure and more. Think I heard figures approaching 250 in the 90's. Now with the 6 year rule I am sure much less. An educated guess would be 75.

How about doing the following

* Inundate them with say 500 membership request
* Inundate them with offers of donations say $500 each - total $250,000 total!
* Caveat - They are transparent & truthful in ALL information
* They have to answer why they support actively the various programs that have lead to reduction of wild lion populations - Botswana
* Why do they support policies that lead to poisoning of breeding prides including females & cubs?
* Why do they refuse to answer these questions?

We also need to send copies of their pathetic annual report to all credible conservation groups and show them what a bunch of weak no hopers they are!

The only good thing about them is their Brand Name - what a waste!

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
165 lions per year? Supposing the hunting season is six months long, that is nearly a lion per day. I find that very hard to believe.

This figure MIGHT equate to the entire annual quota of Lion allocated to the hunting industry in TZ but does not necessarily mean that this figure has been utilized over the past decade as claimed.

Bwanamich would likely have the correct numbers on hand at the touch of a button.

I can believe the average of 165 lion a season during that period - remembering that it was mostly pre the six year old minimum age law came into effect (2010). It took 2 years for offtake to drop to current levels so 2010, and 2011 over 100+ lion a year were hunted.

If you think that TZ was credited with a lion population of over 16,000, it could be argued, is a sustainable 1% harvest rate? Having said this, let us not kid ourselves, too many YOUNG lion were being sport hunted in the past which was the real problem rather than the quantity. This was recognized by the hunting fraternity and new legislation was formulated through private sector initiatives. Recent harvest rates are below 60 a season on average.

quote:

researcher Bernard Kissui estimates that 226 lions have been killed in the area between 2004-2013, or an average of about 23 lions per year. A bit of hypocrisy by the hunters as 1,653 adult and subadult male lions were shot as trophies in Tanzania during 2003-2012.

Trying to compare stats of lion killed in retaliation in ONE small area against lions hunted stats for the whole country. - MISLEADING

quote:

There must be some puzzlement among rural communities as foreign hunters are entitled to kill lions for entertainment, but lions cannot be killed to protect livelihoods and indeed human lives

Foreign hunters are entitled to kill lions because they PAY for the right. Communities are entitled to kill ANY game in defence of life or property according to the LAW! Communities know this very well. That statement is MISLEADING.