All,

I know the drill about the US custom form 4457 for taking firearms overseas, specially to Zim and Nam along with registering them in both those countries upon arrival at the airports with the appropriate local police authorities.

My question deals with some "new" requirement laid on by the US Embassy in Zimbabwe in particular that is requiring that my hunting guns be registered and approved by the US embassy 21 days before I arrive in there. Now maybe this is some other rule required as a DOD civil servant traveling with personnal firearms on a hunting trip. My local force protection official here where I work is also checking on this for me, but I wanted to see if anyone else, particularly DOD civil servants or active duty military personnel have run into this issue/question within say the last 5 years while on a hunt specifically to Zimbabwe.

Willi

Willi

Where did you get this info? None of our safari operators in Zim have mentioned anything like this.

Mark

If this is true, it sounds like the thin edge of the wedge to me - as if the US Govt want to keep track of who does what, where and with whom......... and all in a foreign country - I'm no lawyer, but fail to see how the US govt can make the rules anywhere except in the USA.

This world is getting more like 1984 with Big Brother watching over us every day.

Of course, on the other hand, it might just be a Chinese whisper. - I hope it is.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

If this is true, it sounds like the thin edge of the wedge to me

- as if the US Govt want to keep track of who does what, where and

with whom......... and all in a foreign country - I'm no lawyer,

but fail to see how the US govt can make the rules anywhere except

in the USA. This world is getting more like 1984 with Big Brother

watching over us every day.

The U.S. Gov't HAS a law on the books which it is enforcing as such:

A U.S. citizen can NOT travel to another nation and engage in sexual activity

that would be unlawful within the U.S. This is in response to pediphiles going to cer-

tain places and acting like "the devil himself" with under aged victims, often being

pimped by their own parents, who are worse than the freakin' pediphiles in my book, and

ought to have red hot bars of steel shoved into their bodies! But I digress...

Yes, the U.S. Gov't has decided that it can make laws to control conduct of U.S. citizens

even outside U.S. borders. Look, we can't go to CUBA, if you go there I'm told CUBA won't

stamp your pass port, so you don't get hit with a 20K fine. They figure you'll come back if

they, [CUBA] "work with you".

Well -- I can assure you this was not in effect about Turkey Day!
G

bisonhunter: Where are you getting this information from? Or, is it hearsay? Please confirm your source.

Wasn't in effect in early Nov as far as I could tell!

I neither registered my guns nor "myself" with the US Embassy in Harare during my safari a few weeks ago........

okay, I know this is not something discussed before, but I got this CONFUSING information from a email I received at work ( and I'm a DOD civil service employee who is required to inform our facility security office of ANY overseas/foreign travel, and that includes Canada, before I go on the travel).

One of the links that this email from my security office provided is www.fcg.pentagon.mil/fcg.cfm and within that link I found a section on travel to Zimbabwe and thats where I found this confusing information about the firearms registration. Now this link talks about both "official" and personnel travel and this is where I found the stuff about registration of ones self and permission from the US Embassy in Zimbabwe to bring firearms in. In the same breath or paragraph within this link it talks abbout getting firearms registered with US Customs on the 4457 form before leaving, etc etc. As I said this is confusing and I have asked my facility security official to check on this for me.

Last time I traveled to hunt in Africa ( IN SA and NAM) all I did was get a 4457 prior to the trip and register my firearms at the airports of the respective countries on arrival with their police forces at teh airports, and then declare again at the airports when I left with thsoe same firearms.

I can't get the above link to open from my home computer, so I will have to check it out again from work next week and re read the specifics that led me to ask this question on AR in my original post.

I may work as a DOD employee, but I sure don't subscribe to "I'm from the goverenment and I'm here to help" theory"

Willi

Until and unless Gracy Travel, Kathi Klimes or someone else with "official" connections advises us otherwise, I submit that all us civilians subscribe to business as usual and disregard the "confusing" information.

I spent most of two careers working for the DOD, and maybe I can shed some light on this topic. First, IF you have a security clearance and work certain projects, you are required by US law to report all overseas (including Canada and Mexico) travel. If you are on official travel, weapons must be reported. (I seem to remember an issue over cameras at one time as well.) I suppose they don't want us starting a war/international incident with our sporting rifles, but I think they are upset over things like M-16s and AUGs. I was carrying a .338 Win Mag for three years, so go figure. Anyway, I suspect that the information causing this thread is strictly related to one's security clearance status, and what one may know concerning certain US Government projects. It's not something meant to impact the general public. In fact, if you work for certain corporations and have a US security clearance, the same restrictions may apply to you, depending upon your contract and the project. The only answer to that question is to be found via your company security office. However, those restrictions should not preclude anyone from hunting in Africa. All these security issues are tied to what are called of "Status of Forces Agreements", something meant more to regulate military travel than civilian travel. Oh, and here's another zinger related to foreign travel, if you work certain highly classified projects you are not supposed to travel overseas period, nor for five (I believe) years afterwards!

Saw this thread this morning and asked one of the US embassy state department staff at the range about it this afternoon. Basically as per Sierra2. If you work in classified areas in the states you have to give notification to the state department about travel- especially to potential "enemy" countries. Nothing do do with the mass of visiting sportsmen.

Bisonhunter1, be aware that the airlines can cause a delay in your flight, then make you miss your connection, like they did to me. The first thing they will want to do is put you on a seat to London, connecting to JNB and Zim. This is a sure fire way to have your guns confiscated until you are ready to come back to London and claim them on your way to the U.S. I informed United Airlines of the problem they are causing to Zim-bound hunters and they didn't even answer my e-Mail message. They just can't be bothered with such details. It's up to us. We all have to avoid passing through a European Union country because of their embargo aimed at preventing any gun from going to Zim.

Is that true if flying through Paris?

Since I have no first-hand knowledge of flying through Paris on the way to Zim I can only relay what the Brittish told me, that any E.U. country will enforce the embargo. That of course would include France if true. No doubt others on the forum will have experience going to Zim by an unusual path, so we can get their experiences. Bill

I e-mailed Shawn at Gracy Travel with this issue and she informed me that yes, there are problems if you are flying through London or Amsterdam, but not through Paris. She also said that if you are booked to Jo'burg and then spend the night or some additional time there that you should not encounter any of the issues as stated in this post.