Don't know if anyone out there has seen the National Geographic documentary with this title, but it's just been screened over here in SA.

some parts of the programme are very interesting but other parts seem to me to be a little dubious to say the least....... One statement is that Elephants kill 500 + people worldwide every year. OK, I guess that might be true. I simply have no idea...... but they then go on to suggest that an increasing number of our big eared friends are suffering post traumatic stress disorder...... hence their increased aggression. Quite how they came to that conclusion I simply don't know.....come to that how did they decide it's PTSD and not PMT or just a bad hair day etc!

Any opinions out there?

Hello Shakari, I have seen this documentary twice and I'm not sure what to think. I'm far from an expert, I've never seen an elephant outside of a zoo or circus. After reading Capstick, I certainly don't want to be around wild elephants without my rifle.(The truth is I'm not so sure I want to be around any elephant, wild, zoo or circus without at least my .375). Just an opinion from a complete novice.
Regards,
Sean

I doubt the 500 a year, or we would hear of more than we do.

Elephants have been harrassed since the invention of the spear and bow and arrow. It is understandable why they might a chip on their shoulders. But even in the "old days" charges were infrequent, though often fatal.

Smart elephants are in the 12 year old human range, according to the trainers I've talked to. Of course, he's never been around older elephants, so he can't say how far they evolve, as they get older.

Seems they have low level sound long range communication, below our hearing.

Considering Cape Buffalo kill lion cubs, knowing they will grow up, and kill buffalos, killing humans, by a much more intelligent spieces, seems totally reasonable...

Gs

PS

Elephants have a habit of getting rid of annoyances by leaning on them. This is generally fatal, if you are the human annoyance...

Read "The Elephant Man".

gs

One of the fascinating things about reading more about elephants and elephant hunting has been all of those ideas that seemed to be a part of common knowledge in our society 45+ years ago. "Braining" elephants, and the "elephant's great memory" were well known. Primarily, this was supposed to be the effect if you wound an elephant -- years later, that elephant will remember who you are, and could well try to kill you for your prior offense. And where is that "elephants' graveyard" anyway? Shoot, these things were even included in children's Saturday morning cartoons!

PTS? It get the impression from people who subscribe to such things that we would all be permenantly scarred by running over a squirrel in our car. On the other hand, I did wonder if they weren't just talking about that amazing memory.

Well -- I'm admitting my education began with cartoons -- and includes exposure to some National Geographics stuff... Never seen a wild elephant. So -- for those who have encountered them -- which source is more reliable: the Saturday morning cartoons? or National Geographics?

Dan

After haven been on a PG hunt In the Botswana Kalahari desert, we underwent a photo safari in the Okovango and Chobe Parks. We set our tents each night and cooked on a campfire. One particular night, we didn't camp in a campground. Most of the surrounding terrain had been stripped of vegitation by the elephants. Upon wakening, we zipped open the tent door and there were possibly 60 elephants surrounding our tent. We decided to wait for them to move on, which they did.

Later that morning, we discovered an elephant track 6" from my head during the night. Wow!

During the same trip we had lion, leopard, bull elephant, honey badger and Hyena come through camp as we sat at campfire; what an experience.

I can't wait to get back....

quote:

Originally posted by DanEP:
.......

Primarily, this was supposed to be the effect if you wound an elephant -- years later, that elephant will remember who you are, and could well try to kill you for your prior offense. And where is that "elephants' graveyard" anyway?

.......

Dan

quote:

One statement is that Elephants kill 500 + people worldwide every year.

Taking into consideration how many people are probably killed by "tame" work elephants in Asia ech year, I don't think this number is unreasonable. You would hear no more, or maybe even less, about some guy being squashed in Bangladesh then you would if it happened in Zim.

India / Kenya Stats for wild elephants.

Nickudu,

Thanks for the info. The fact that you can find this stuff always amazes me.

Yes, I saw the show. The reason elephants are killing more people than ever is that there are more people than ever. Elephants have been getting pissed off at humans, usually with good cause, since the dawn of history. I've been around a few malcontents myself. Also we get news from the remote areas we didn't used to get so now they are counting those reports of elephant cause fatalities. Shoot, back in the late 80's when we stayed at the elephant safari camp in Tepi and later, Gara Farda, we had almost daily news of elephant "rage" (if you want to call it that)
in the SW Ethiopian coffee plantations. That's the main reason they allowed us in to hunt them. I can remember one incident where a dump truck loaded with plantation workers was attacked and over turned by an elephant. Can't remember the number of fatalies in that one incident but I doubt if it got reported outside of the country. Today it would be a big deal on CNN.

Rich Elliott

The documentary in question deals with elephant rage not merely as it relates to people but also as to how the elephants relate to each other and to other animals as well.

The logic proscribed to goes something like this.Immature elephants are taken captive or left to there own devices when their mature bull parents are shot.Both those relocated or left without adult supervision become unruly either because they do not benefit from the adult example and the dominance of a mature herd bull.In the documentary that I saw there are shown seens of a young bull that is bullying a rhino at a waterhole.They show another rhino that was killed by elephants.Then they explain that had the young bull been supervised in a normal herd with a dominant bull that he would be more submissive and less likely to act out in this manner.

Not sure if I agree with these theories or not , just reporting what was stated on the show.

quote:

Originally posted by eyedoc:
The logic proscribed to goes something like this.Immature elephants are taken captive or left to there own devices when their mature bull parents are shot.Both those relocated or left without adult supervision become unruly either because they do not benefit from the adult example and the dominance of a mature herd bull.

Correct. This brings to mind the killings of rhino by juvenile bulls reported a while back (Kruger?), which were attributed to much the same thing.

In the Save Conservancy and other SE Zim locations, including GhonaReZou (sp?) the elephants are suposed to be very agressive. And they certainly were in the Save. The local Zim PH's believe the elephants there are so agressive because they were poached heavily with AK 47's during the bush war with many surviving a wounding.

In the Save if an elephant got your wind it didn't run far if it ran at all and there was a good chance it would come for you. The good news is that a 40 yard dash through the thick bush would leave the elephant looking for you where you were pre sprint. We got caught in the open once and only barely made our escape in the truck.

Very differnt from the elephants we encountered in the Zambezi Valley.

While I think much of NG stuff is the creation of tree huggers with no real basis I think they may have a point here, but only a localized issue, I think.

JPK