Anyone here hunt or know of anyone who has hunted Plains Game with the 6.5x55mm?

I'm interested in your experience, i.e., bullet choice and game taken and distances shot.

I used my M98 30-06 with 180gr Partitions last year with excellent results. My son and I had them just blow right through 3 Oryxs, 3 Kudus, Hartmann's Zebra, Warthogs, Impala, blesbok at ranges from 145 yds to 275 yds.

I'm contemplating the use of my Ruger MKII 6.5x55mm on my next visit for a different flavor.

Might need to be more selective on my angles with the Swede though....

Thanks!

I hunted E.C last year with my 6,5-284 and had no problem with it, only a couple of bad shots(my mistake)
I used the 130grs trippel-x bullet

Also shot a moose 150kg field dressed home in Norway last fall, bullet through both sholders.
Found it against the hide on the off-side, it could have been used in their next comersial..

I think you will be fine

My son has taken his 6.5 Swede on three safaris, shooting 140 gr. A-Frames. He has taken several blue wildebeast, several Burchell's zebra, impala, bushbuck, steinbuck, common duiker, and a few other animals that don't come to mind right now. Most of the animals fell to the shot or ran less than 100 yards before dropping. The single exception was a zebra which ran a short distance and stopped. It was very sick but still on it's feet and required a finisher. Penetration was impessive, as this caliber is noted for. I wouldn't hesitate to use this round on any plains game. However,on the larger animals like gemsbuck, eland, and sable I would be a bit more selective on the type of shot taken.

Geronimo

My oh my, how timely. Roland, you devil, you and I are thinking along the same lines, though for different reasons. Details forthcoming!

I have heard that the sectional density/ballistic coefficient of the 6.5 is simply amazing for not only penetration but also accuracy and retained energy once it hits. I wouldn't use it for Eland, maybe zebra (mountain), nor Sable, but for just about everything else definitely.

quote:

Originally posted by LHO:
I hunted E.C last year with my 6,5-284 and had no problem with it, only a couple of bad shots(my mistake)
I used the 130grs trippel-x bullet

Also shot a moose 150kg field dressed home in Norway last fall, bullet through both sholders.
Found it against the hide on the off-side, it could have been used in their next comersial..

I think you will be fine

Thanks buddy I appreciate it...

quote:

Originally posted by Geronomo:
My son has taken his 6.5 Swede on three safaris, shooting 140 gr. A-Frames. He has taken several blue wildebeast, several Burchell's zebra, impala, bushbuck, steinbuck, common duiker, and a few other animals that don't come to mind right now. Most of the animals fell to the shot or ran less than 100 yards before dropping. The single exception was a zebra which ran a short distance and stopped. It was very sick but still on it's feet and required a finisher. Penetration was impessive, as this caliber is noted for. I wouldn't hesitate to use this round on any plains game. However,on the larger animals like gemsbuck, eland, and sable I would be a bit more selective on the type of shot taken.

Geronimo

Thanks brother...I appreciate you taking the time and sharing this! I'm looking into the 140gr SAF too! Also considering the TSX/TTSX for the task!

Just looking for some different challenges on our next trip!

My son and I used our 30-06 rifles 180gr Partitions. Everything we pointed it went down very, very quickly if not DRT! I was really happy with our performance as well as gear!

This time I want to hunt much harder not that anything was too easy the first time 'cause it wasn't....hehehe

But on this next trip I want to hunt much harder and be forced to be very selective with my shots, as I will only give any living beast my BEST for its life!

I'm not there for the TROPHY perse' but I really want to challenge myself as a hunter!

If I have to pass up a shot on a MONSTER TROPHY ORYX or WILDEBEEST BULL because THE PERFECT SHOT did not present itself for my WEAPON of CHOICE, then so be it...I got no probs with that!

I'm 'into' THE HUNT that's my trophy!

That's the type of experience I desire and the DEMANDS I CHOOSE to IMPOSE upon myself the next time I'm there!

I appreciate you sharing your experience about your son...

Was he using a warm load?

The only thing that I was not prepared to hear was that some of them ran-off a 100 yds or so! Hmmm...Hmmm...Hmmm

On those were the shots very well-placed or marginal?

This is quite important to me...

In the area I plan to be hunting I cannot be in this situation!

Much of the area has trees, dense shrubbery, and undergrowth in the northern area of Central Namibia...

Don't want to suffer the chance of losing him!

For the type of hunt I'm seeking I must seriously look into the 140gr TSX/TTSX at max load with 2700fps MV and bust'em through the shoulders to anchor them or CNS when definitely required by the terrain...Limiting my shots to under 200 yds shouldn't be a problem here...225yds max...

Definitely, I have to do some homework on this pill and cartridge...I should be able to run this load a tad warm with my modern action...

Fantastic info....it adds much to my research!

Aloha brother!

Ro

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCrighton:
I have heard that the sectional density/ballistic coefficient of the 6.5 is simply amazing for not only penetration but also accuracy and retained energy once it hits.

That is correct Eric...its a superb round...but it must be used properly like any other cartridge...every beast deserves my BEST shot, now I'm trying to discern and understand the limitations of my gear especially because of the type of situations I'm hoping to get myself into...

I'd rather have less opportunities and fewer animals this time around in the bag; In exchange for the thrill and excitement, and for the opportunity and challenge to make a perfect stalk and a perfect shot on my Orxy and Blue Wildebeest and a Black Wildebeest and "drop" them with my 6.5x55mm!

My son Josh and I have proven to ourselves to our satisfaction thus far that we can shoot...

But for me I want to challenge myself as a hunter moreso, now then ever!

Many of my friends are great shooters rather than hunters and very, very few of them are the latter IMHO...

I must be tested...and I will need to find a PH who is willing to accomodate me in this matter...knowing that I desire to get up-close as possible and getting us on the best angle allowing me to wait for the best opportunity for the shot...Shouldn't be a problem for Tommy or Rodney at all to accomodate me but I'll speak with them when the time draws near!

BTW our third trip to Africa will be stick and string and over no watering-holes, strictly spot and stalk...

That should be FUN...

Take care...

Roland,

Can't talk about the 6.5 Swede. But have used the 264WM plenty of times...........do use a 140gr bullet, preferabley the TBBC or Lapua Naturalis......she'll be sweet

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
Roland,

Can't talk about the 6.5 Swede. But have used the 264WM plenty of times...........do use a 140gr bullet, preferabley the TBBC or Lapua Naturalis......she'll be sweet

Hey mate...

Thanks for chiming in I appreciate the advice!

I wanted to bring a 9.3x62mm for a different flavor this next trip or even was going to build a 358 Norma Magnum, then I decided to go MUCH "lighter" instead

I know it'll do the job...I just have to make sure I can do it...that's all...

Just a bit more mental stimulation on my part...

The cartridge is already proven on the Dark Continent for PG...I just wanted to share in the intimacy with those that have done the same for decades...

Aloha buddy!

Ro

quote:

Was he using a warm load?

The only thing that I was not prepared to hear was that some of them ran-off a 100 yds or so! Hmmm...Hmmm...Hmmm

On those were the shots very well-placed or marginal?

This is quite important to me...

In the area I plan to be hunting I cannot be in this situation!

Much of the area has trees, dense shrubbery, and undergrowth in the northern area of Central Namibia...

Don't want to suffer the chance of losing him!

For the type of hunt I'm seeking I must seriously look into the 140gr TSX/TTSX at max load with 2700fps MV and bust'em through the shoulders to anchor them or CNS when definitely required by the terrain...Limiting my shots to under 200 yds shouldn't be a problem here...225yds max...

The load was RL 22 and Fed 210 primers. A bit warm, coming out at 2750 fps. I would suggest just using which ever premium bullet shoots the best in your rifle.

All shots were well placed. After hunting Africa yearly for 13 years, I just don't think it is realistic to expect every animal to drop in it's tracks. Having an occasional animal go 50 or 100 yards I consider stellar performance for a light rifle.

Geronimo

Hi Late-Bloomer,

I'm going in a different direction from you I had just the opposite experience with a .300 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield with 180's TSX on the similar larger game. For me it is .338 and up.

I would assume for Baboon, Jackal, Springbok, Ostrich, and Impala the 6.5x55 should be just fine - may be pushing it with Oryx and Kudu, and perhaps with Zebra - anyone care to chime in?

quote:

Originally posted by Geronomo:

quote:

Was he using a warm load?

The only thing that I was not prepared to hear was that some of them ran-off a 100 yds or so! Hmmm...Hmmm...Hmmm

On those were the shots very well-placed or marginal?

This is quite important to me...

In the area I plan to be hunting I cannot be in this situation!

Much of the area has trees, dense shrubbery, and undergrowth in the northern area of Central Namibia...

Don't want to suffer the chance of losing him!

For the type of hunt I'm seeking I must seriously look into the 140gr TSX/TTSX at max load with 2700fps MV and bust'em through the shoulders to anchor them or CNS when definitely required by the terrain...Limiting my shots to under 200 yds shouldn't be a problem here...225yds max...

The load was RL 22 and Fed 210 primers. A bit warm, coming out at 2750 fps. I would suggest just using which ever premium bullet shoots the best in your rifle.

All shots were well placed. After hunting Africa yearly for 13 years, I just don't think it is realistic to expect every animal to drop in it's tracks. Having an occasional animal go 50 or 100 yards I consider stellar performance for a light rifle.
Geronimo

You're right Geronimo what was I thinking...

The more I thought about it after reading what I'm challenging myself to do, the more I realized it was insane and idiotic to think I am able to pull off such a feat...

But I'll certainly try my best nontheless...

Knowing that if there down in 50-100yds is still all good for this light round!!!

I needed that REAL WORLD opinion from you right there!!!

I guess I got spoiled with our last trip as the 30-06 180gr NPT simply leveled them animals DRT or a very short distance aways say 35 yds...

I never imagined how far they would run after the shot from a .264 140 grainer...But you've given me the confidence and a better perspective indeed!!!

All I can do is prepare myself both physically and mentally and go and hunt hard and place the shot with the proper ammo where it needs to go given the angles I'm presented...

And bottom-line have some FUN and EXCITEMENT....

I appreciate you taking me to school on this!

I've only been hunting two years now and only have 13 animals [7 in Hawaii, 6 in Africa] under my belt all shot with my 30-06 in 4 hunting trips...

I've enjoyed the success I've been having as a new hunter...

I'm used to seeing all my animals being hit with some authority from my 30 cal.

Deciding to hunt with the .264 140 grainer against the Oryx and Wildebeest has definitely gained my attention...

I'll pick my shots and watch those angles and I'm sure I'll have a fantastic hunt!

Thank you my friend!

Aloha!

Ro



Aloha!

Ro

No, aka...."press"

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
No, aka...."press"

The 6.5 x55 Swede with good bullets - I prefer those without lead, like the Barnes X, would be perfect for all plains game, including eland.

At least I would not hesitate to use it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The 6.5 x55 Swede with good bullets - I prefer those without lead, like the Barnes X, would be perfect for all plains game, including eland.

At least I would not hesitate to use it.

Saeed,

I've been researching this for the past day ever since I got the notion and I've found several people that feel like you do!

All seasoned hunters that have more than 16+ plains game hunts between them, all taking my intended quarry with GREAT success and absolutely no reservations!

They all have been recommending to me the TSX 130 grainer, SAF 140 grainer, and the TBBC 140 grainer and run them at modest velocities!

Limit shots to <200 yds and pick them shots and put it where it needs to go!

So far the guys I've been talking to here and abroad and from my researching reflect exactly what "Geronimo" here has been sharing with me!

I won't be hunting Eland, Waterbuck, or Sable so I feel really good about my weapon of choice!

But I will hunt Zebra and I am more than confident with the 6.5x55mm in fact I'm looking forward to it...

I am prepared to give up shots if the animal is out of those distances and/or doesn't give me the angle I'm comfortable with for this "lighter" rifle!

It should be FUN and EXCITING...

The more I grow as a hunter since I'm a LATE-BLOOMER at this sport, I'm learning I need to put the EMPHASIS on proper bullet construction for the intended game and at what speeds I can run that particular bullet for proper expansion and penetration. I need to know the limitations of my bullet and put it where it needs to go! The .264 is a capable round on the plains, but I,... as the hunter must have the wherewithal to know how to use it to make it work in the field!

This is where I'm challenging myself!

I'm not DELIBERATELY choosing a lighter caliber so I can say hey I did it with a .264 caliber.

Much rather I am challenging myself as a HUNTER to be able to MAKE the proper shot with the chosen bullet and velocity with a lighter bullet than the norm...Personally, I feel within reason based on my experiences from having been there already and from my PM's and emails with seasoned hunters who have much experience with this caliber and these type of bullets...

I am one that subscribes to its the bullet that kills the animal not the caliber!

Thanks Saeed I appreciate the confidence you have in the 6.5x55mm with the proper bullet...

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Hi Late-Bloomer,

I'm going in a different direction from you I had just the opposite experience with a .300 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield with 180's TSX on the similar larger game. For me it is .338 and up.

Hi Buliwyf,

I don't find fault with your choice, for if I had your experience while on my first PG safari I definitely would use the 338WM on my next PG hunts as well!

But for me I did not have that type of experience at all...

Good hunting on your next trip and wish you better success!

Safe hunting!

What do you all think of the Lapua Mega 155 grain soft point? Or do you think that 140s would be just fine for impala, springbok, ostrich, and oryx?

I thought I read somewhere that a few guys recommended them with good success as well...

Edited...I wrote this quickly! [italicized]

A friend with over 16+ trips to Africa just himself has recently recommended even the Hornady 140 grain Spire Points for Impala and Springbok sized game!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCrighton:
What do you all think of the Lapua Mega 155 grain soft point? Or do you think that 140s would be just fine for impala, springbok, ostrich, and oryx?

The Europeans use the 6.5 for their moose and the largest bullet I remember seeing (30 years ago) was 140 gr.

It should be fine for almost all non-dangerous game although it may take the larger animals longer to bleed out because of the smaller holes. For the smaller animals, especially with a TSX, a bullet lighter than 140 gr might even be better IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCrighton:
What do you all think of the Lapua Mega 155 grain soft point? Or do you think that 140s would be just fine for impala, springbok, ostrich, and oryx?

Have loaded the Mega, as well as ,the 160 Sierra (no longer made), the 160 Hornady etc.

Performance on Elk, Deer & Pigs all similar.
My particular rifle seemed not to group the Megas as well as the Sierras (therefore bought 1000 at productions end).

Did not take the 6.5 to Africa.

Current favorite is the Berger 140 VLD hunting bullet, they also make a 130 VLD.

Have shot the Barnes in several rifles as well, in my particular 6.5 did not group as well, but did perform well on Pigs (200 to 400 lbs)

I think a 140 on the animals above should work well.

We had 6.5 Swedes on our safaris in 2004 and 2007, and neither shooter lost a head of game. Ammo was 140 grain Norma factory, targets were all the smaller Plains game, up to Zebra. The 6.5mm cartridges just work!

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by MCA man:
We had 6.5 Swedes on our safaris in 2004 and 2007, and neither shooter lost a head of game. Ammo was 140 grain Norma factory, targets were all the smaller Plains game, up to Zebra. The 6.5mm cartridges just work!

LLS

I appreciate you sharing your experience here...

Excellent - I have read VERY good things about the game performance and accuracy of the Sierra GameKing Bullets - 140 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail as well as the Berger - not a huge price difference between them. I don't suppose they make Nosler Partitions in 140 grain 6.5, do they? I really like them due to what I saw them do out of my .30-06

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCrighton:
Excellent - I have read VERY good things about the game performance and accuracy of the Sierra GameKing Bullets - 140 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail as well as the Berger - not a huge price difference between them. I don't suppose they make Nosler Partitions in 140 grain 6.5, do they? I really like them due to what I saw them do out of my .30-06

6.5mm 140 Gr. Partition® 50ct.
Part #16321


http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=11&b=5&s=10&t=6.5mm

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCrighton:
Excellent - I have read VERY good things about the game performance and accuracy of the Sierra GameKing Bullets - 140 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail as well as the Berger - not a huge price difference between them. I don't suppose they make Nosler Partitions in 140 grain 6.5, do they? I really like them due to what I saw them do out of my .30-06

JC...

Partitions are a good bullet too...

I was first considering the 6.5 140gr Partitions for my Oryx and Wildebeest, but since then I've changed as I did more research and just personal preference!

A dear friend of mine has also used the Sierra Gamekings for everything on his last 2 PG hunts except for his Giraffe and he is planning to go again with his Sierra Gamekings! I think that says alot!

I don't want to mention the outfitters name here but one that is one of the TOP's in Namibia actually was futile that he and his buddies brought Sierra Gamekings over, but after the first day and a couple animals this top-rate legendary PH from Namibia was all SMILES!!! They used them on many large Kudu, Oryx, and Wildebeest with great success...They're all SEASONED-HUNTERS and were capable and ran them at modest velocities I believe...

Good luck...I hear from several of your posts on AR that you're wife is shooting the 6.5 on your next visit! Rodnet will tell her where to put that 140 grain Nosler for sure! Josh and I made believers out of them for sure from the get-go! They were totally impressed with Partitions performance in fact we left them alot of ammo since they loved it so much...hehehehe

Congrats that's super!

My wife is taking my daughter to Disneyland instead....I'm a bit bummed, but Josh said no probs...

quote:

Originally posted by Oday450:
For the smaller animals, especially with a TSX, a bullet lighter than 140 gr might even be better IMHO.

A couple guys made that recommendation to me as well...The 120gr TSX for impala and springbok and the like!

Cool..it makes sense but never thought it before...

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
Roland,

Can't talk about the 6.5 Swede. But have used the 264WM plenty of times...........do use a 140gr bullet, preferabley the TBBC or Lapua Naturalis......she'll be sweet

Hey mate...

Thanks for chiming in I appreciate the advice!

I wanted to bring a 9.3x62mm for a different flavor this next trip or even was going to build a 358 Norma Magnum, then I decided to go MUCH "lighter" instead

I know it'll do the job...I just have to make sure I can do it...that's all...

Just a bit more mental stimulation on my part...

The cartridge is already proven on the Dark Continent for PG...I just wanted to share in the intimacy with those that have done the same for decades...

Aloha buddy!

Ro

Roland,

Just tried the 140 Lapua Naturalis, which is a round nosed, tipped, monometal in my 264 at the range.......fantastic accuracy out of the 264 WM.

And on my last hunt in Namibia, the hands down winner was the 338 version of the Naturalis in the expanding bullet trials, ie: NP, TBBC, TTSX, A-Frame, Accubond, TSX, Hornady SST And Sierra Game Kings.............

You can buy them from Midway

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
Roland,

Can't talk about the 6.5 Swede. But have used the 264WM plenty of times...........do use a 140gr bullet, preferabley the TBBC or Lapua Naturalis......she'll be sweet

Hey mate...

Thanks for chiming in I appreciate the advice!

I wanted to bring a 9.3x62mm for a different flavor this next trip or even was going to build a 358 Norma Magnum, then I decided to go MUCH "lighter" instead

I know it'll do the job...I just have to make sure I can do it...that's all...

Just a bit more mental stimulation on my part...

The cartridge is already proven on the Dark Continent for PG...I just wanted to share in the intimacy with those that have done the same for decades...

Aloha buddy!

Ro

Roland,

Just tried the 140 Lapua Naturalis, which is a round nosed, tipped, monometal in my 264 at the range.......fantastic accuracy out of the 264 WM.

And on my last hunt in Namibia, the hands down winner was the 338 version of the Naturalis in the expanding bullet trials, ie: NP, TBBC, TTSX, A-Frame, Accubond, TSX, Hornady SST And Sierra Game Kings.............

You can buy them from Midway

Blair,

Those results you showed me from your last trip just blew me away! Those were some incredible shots on some super beasts! I'm sure you made a believer out of ole Mike-eee....

I would love to shoot all your toys with your projectiles of choice but if you haven't figured it out yet mate, I have!...

You're in a LEAGUE all your own...

I can only DREAM to experience a fraction of what you've accomplished already and I know you got a bunch more fun and adventure to come!

All the BEST to you buddy I know you deserve it!

Work hard and play hard...ain't nothing wrong with that mate...

You've darn done proven that bullet for the WORLD....

Keep me posted!

Aloha!

Ro

Just came back from the Eastern Cape after 8 days of hunting plains game. A fantastic experience and we all hope to do it again.
Two of my friends used the 6,5 X 55 Swede and i can assure all, that when the shot was placed in the right place the result was spectacular.
The bullet used was the Rhino 150 grainer made in South Africa and it`s a bullet much like the Throphy bonded bearclaw.
The 6,5 accounted for Kudu, red Hartebeast, blue Wildebeast, Warthog, Blesbuck and springbuck.
From what i witnessed i am in no doubt that a well placed bullet will take an Eland too, although i personally would use a larger caliber.
In my opinion the 6,5 x 55 is at its best with 140 - 150 grain bullets which are the heaviest bullets that most of the rifles made in this caliber will stabilize, the 156 grain lapua mega is a good bullet but will not group so well in many rifles , definitely not in mine, a swedish Carl Gustav 1900.
We are able to push the rhino to +2700 fps without any pressure signs with 1" groups at 100 meters and i think that is about the best i have seen from any hunting bullet for this caliber. That said i still think that the Swede is a max 275 yard shooter but then again why not get closer and enjoy the thrill of stalking. There isn`t much fun in taking an unwounded animal at extreme ranges. ??
I have used just about all the bullets that can be bought for the 6,5 including nosler BT, sierra Gamekings , Hornady spirepoints all in 140 grain and they will work too but the velocity has to be kept down or they will be disintegrating upon impact and will destroy a lot of meat on small animals and will not penetrate larger game.The good old Partition is very good too but will often shed its petals when hitting something hard but i guess that is a wellknown fact on this forum.
Yes the lighter (120 - 130 grain) bullets with boattails and high BC will fly faster and may have more energy at 200 yards. but i believe that within reason one cannot substitute a long heavy bullet with a lighter faster bullet in this caliber.

Is there anyone out there that has any experience with the berger 140 grain VLD in 6,5 ? Will this bullet show controlled expansion on shorter ranges with high velocity and how about expansion on lets say 300 yards ?

I have hunted Kansas whitetails for 30 years, a few african animals and some wyoiming pronghorn and elk. I have used lots of calibers and the magical thing with the 6.5 like only a few other rounds is the long for caliber bullets. High sectional density makes them penetrate forever. Shooting light bullets in it defeats it's uniqueness. Shoot at least 140's or longer if they shoot well in your rifle. Use premium bullets if you load them up to higher velocities. I consider a 6.5 to be the perfect plains game rifle. I plan on useing a 6.5 and a 9.3X62 on my next trip.
Aaron

The 6.5 will certainly put them down, for years in the first half of the last century the choice of highland red stalker in was a 6.5x54 MS.

It is said by foresters that they prefer a higher velocity 6.5 than the x54 to impart more shock in the beast, and thereby fewer runners, but a modern loading in 6.5 has more than enough with 140 grain bullets.

My next rifle will be a 6.5 of some flavour or another. The rifle will be used for deer from Chinese water deer up to lowland red stag, though my 30.06 would probably be better for the latter, at this point i'm trying do decide between the x55 or the x57.

The only reason I consider the x57 is that there are some very nice used rifles floating about in the calibre....

I have no experience in hunting anything at all with the 6,5mm. However, it is somewhat popular amongst the moose hunters in Finland, and a good choice is the Lapua Naturalis. It's performed splendidly not only on moose but also wild boar.
I'd be hesitant to use the Lapua Mega as it's rather soft and not bonded.

Also you may want to have a look at Norma's selection. Especially the Oryx enjoys a very solid reputation having been called "the poor man's premium bullet".

- Lars/Finland

I hae used a sweet little 6.5x55 for a lot of game here, and used to let clients wives use it if I saw they had problems with bigger calibers.
It works fine if as with any caliber, the shot is placed properly.
I have tried 140gr Sierra SPBT, I had a lot of total bullet fragmentation when shooting a bunch of impala one year, but never lost an animal because of it.
I used 160gr Sierra SMP with no hassles.
I used 140gr Nosler partitions with no hassles.
I tried GS Custom 95gr HV/HP/SP/BT, they worked well, but I really battled to get them to group.

So yes, I would use the swede with little or no hesitation.