Just for Nitrox's benefit......It's called freedom of speach.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
Just for Nitrox's benefit......It's called freedom of speach.

Kensco

The gentlemen asked for comments on the topic he raised.

Instead of repeating what is written in books it is usually more informative to give personal experiences and that is what a lot of posters have done.

Having said that, do you actually have anything to contribute to the topic raised by "tropherhunter500"?

Nevermind, the way this thread has gone is synomonous with the way this forum is going .......

Check below for some facts on skydiving accidents - most not all were preventable. Skydiving and hunting have never been in the same sentance for me until now.

www.skydivingfatalities.info/

If you want a real rush go base jump - the price is much higher but the thrill all the greater.

As far as combat bring a thrill I think Combat stress speaks for itself. Being shot at is not anyones idea of a thrill.

Just my 2 cents, John

Ropes, thats a general reply not an individual one.
A pal of mine is in Afghanistan, hired on as " private security". When he got there, he was assigned to a team with a fellow that was as good as they get, and haveing a great time. That fellow is in his mid-60's. Why else do you think he'd be there if it wasnt for the rush?

NitroX

Stop pretending it's your forum. Any comments are welcome, even yours.

In most cases I've found you to be part of what's right with this forum. In this case you're part of what's wrong with it. People start feeling self important and dictating to others. Crawl down off your pedestal.

......The just want the T shirt crowd seems to get going when the goin gets tough........But there are some good hands even in the t shirt bunch ... ....Some of the idiots who hunt make it real dangerous .. .. Doing alot of deadly things repeatedly make us deal with fear and if we are going to get good ,,,,to learn where the edge is and how to deal with it......Ask a high steel worker.or professional racer...

I've backpacked deep into wilderness areas and stayed for days on end with nothing between me and being buzzard bait but a bag of rice, a good knife and a rifle.

I've worked at 10,000ft elevation on logging crews where an average of 1 in 10 guys would get killed in less than 5 years.

I've worked on drill rigs in swamps so wild that I had to wear a pistol to keep the rattlesnakes and wild hogs off of me.

I've faced a few guns in the hands of crazed idiots because I used to not have enough sense to be afraid and too much pride to back down.

I've had the "thrill" of coming face to face with 3 cougars that fully intended to eat me until they realized the dying rabbit sound I was making was only a game call.

I've been "bluff charged" by a big black bear sow that was convinced that I intended to do her cubs harm.

I've looked up from fishing a mountain stream only to find that I was between a stressed cow moose and her calf.

I've come upon car accidents and stripped off my clothing to stop blood flow while calling for help on my cell phone.

I've been charged by a whole herd of wild hogs after shooting a big sow.

I've drag raced and done a bit of SCCA autocross.

I've faced down an insane biker that had just threatened my life and who had a fatal encounter with SWAT later the same night.

I've been called by friends that had armed idiots threatening their lives and arrived before the law could get there and stepped in front of guns and talked people out of murder.

I've capsized a canoe in a bone chilling cold mountain stream miles from any help and came up spluttering without my glasses (needed them desparately before lasic) and had to repeatedly dive for hours to find them so I could find my way to safety. (Almost froze to death)

I've been knocked off a drill rig mast and fallen 30 feet only to land on the drill motor.

I've been shot in the back by a hunter that thought I was a deer.

And I've hunted game with hounds many many times and whether or not you approve of it the adrenaline rush of that chase and (if you're lucky) kill is really hard to imagine.

But... I'd trade all that for an opportunity to hunt in a close up and personal encounter, a grizzly, a Cape Buff, and a Lion before I die. THEN and ONLY THEN will I know that I've LIVED!!!

I don't get mealy mouthed about excitement and hunting. I'm in it for the fun and excitement. It's fun! It's EXCITING! It's an adrenaline rush! It's what I live and work for! It's the pure essence of life.

To hunt and to face danger and adversity while hunting is and has always been my greatest passion in life and I pursue it with a lust that would make many people shrink away.

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by TSJ:
Ropes, thats a general reply not an individual one.

That is a fair reply, I stand corrected there are those who excell in those conditions.


Myself I will stick with other things and leave the door kicking and house to house fighting to someone younger and quicker..

JOhn

"Nothing is quite so exhilarating as being shot at without effect."

Sir Winston Churchill

Well after reading all the replies to the questions put forth. I'd say the answers have covered the gammot of reasons people do dangerous things.

In my case my trophy room has never been posted on any forum, nor have any of my trophy kills, been posted for the general rank and file to prove anything! The only proof I need it to myself, and this is qualified by 99% of my hunting has either been alone, no matter the game sought, or with a PH which is mandated by law, and logistics, no other reason.

Haveing said the above, I'll just say I've been in the line of fire with everyone in sight trying they're dead level best to take me out, and it is a place nobody with a brain wants to be, but I wasn't asked my opinion in the matter. That is the number one as far as dangerous game goes, and it head and shoulders above any onter thing I've ever been involved in! Other than that the most dangerous thing I ever did on purpose was to try to break up a female Cat Fight, between two knife wealding Apache Squaws in a bar in Tulorosa, New Mexico. They both took exception to my interference, and damn near got me casterated by cutting everything below my chin away from my head!

With the first two tops out of the way. In Africa, the thing that absolutely takes my breath away, with fear, is the thought of wounding a large African lion, and letting him get into the weeds, where I have to go in and sort him out, now that scares the crap right out of me. I've been very close the horns of cape Buffalo, and too close to elephant cow groups, with calves, but nither of them scares me like the gut shot lion. For some reason I've never been afraid of Cape Buffalo, even the only one to ever charge me at very close range, that one beacuse we didn't have time to get scared before it was all over! It was totally un provoked, and a real suprize, because we had no idea he was even there!

I think anyone can make any hunting dangerous, but if he likes liveing a long life, and hunts Alaska, and Africa, he shouldn't make a practice of it!

quote:

Originally posted by TSJ:
Ropes, thats a general reply not an individual one.
A pal of mine is in Afghanistan, hired on as " private security". When he got there, he was assigned to a team with a fellow that was as good as they get, and haveing a great time. That fellow is in his mid-60's. Why else do you think he'd be there if it wasnt for the rush?

Maybe he has a fetish for women wearing burkhas?

As for the original question, I think "dangerous game" hunting in general comes pretty far down on the danger list. At least considering that virtually all visiting hunters in Africa today have their hands held by a PH.

Haven't been elephant hunting, eh?

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Haven't been elephant hunting, eh?

JPK

-

quote:

I think "dangerous game" hunting in general comes pretty far down on the danger list.

JPK,

Please note that I said "in general". Elephant cows are certainly dangerous to hunt up close. But shooting buffalo from 40+ meters as it looks like most people do is not dangerous in my opinion. The same goes for elephant bulls from a similar distance, or hippo in the water (as long as you are not in the water with it! ).

quote:

As for the original question, I think "dangerous game" hunting in general comes pretty far down on the danger list. At least considering that virtually all visiting hunters in Africa today have their hands held by a PH.

Yep... That's my main concern... I doubt that I'd find much excitement in that. I haven't needed "training wheels" for a long time. If that's the only way I can do it I'm likely to pass.

$bob$

In all my hunting years in Africa, I have never, ever felt I was in danger from an animal I was hunting.

My worst fear is falling into one of those deep holes in the grass and breaking my leg!

Or stepping on a puff adder and gettign stung.

Or one might come across a lion or buffalo very close while walking in long grass.

Apart from that, those seeking dangerous thrills could always try killing a buffalo with a spear, or better still a knife.

And those who are REALLY brave, could do it bare hand.

Saeed,

Good point but I think I'll stick to my rifles...

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by LDHunter:

quote:

As for the original question, I think "dangerous game" hunting in general comes pretty far down on the danger list. At least considering that virtually all visiting hunters in Africa today have their hands held by a PH.

Yep... That's my main concern... I doubt that I'd find much excitement in that. I haven't needed "training wheels" for a long time. If that's the only way I can do it I'm likely to pass.

$bob$

The PH is not there to hold your hand. The main job of the PH is to really tell which animal is mature, old, and a trophy worth taking. The other job he has is to keep you away from danger as he understands how animals react to different situation. Unless you spend enough time with animals, you cannot know age, trophy size, and behavior. Even though I am a PH in Africa, I will need a guide for example hunting a trophy white tail deer for the same reason of wanting to take something that is a trophy instead of just a white tail deer.

On the question of hunting because it is dangerous, I believe that is missing a point. I believe most of us hunt because of the experience hunting brings, and mostly to just spend time with nature away from ordinary life. I don't believe there are words to discribe the joy we all feel when hunting. It is a different high for everyone.

For those seaking dangerous thrills, I will agree with what Saeed is saying!

UsanguSafaris,

This is no reflection on you because I've never met you or seen any of your posts but here's my layman,s viewpoint on African hunting and we are the customer... Usually anyway...

I want to go for the excitement of hunting large and/or potentially dangerous game in the African environment that I've been reading about since I was a child.

I read about PH's shooting at the same time as the hunter or shooting immediately after and I automatically loose all fascination with hunting what I perceive to be dangerous game.

I don't necessarily want to take a chance on getting killed by my own inexperience but I want to feel that I could be the decision maker and the primary hunter with the PH along as an advisor and a backup in case things get beyond my ability to handle safely.

We sit here behind our keyboards staring at our monitors trying to decide to part with the best part of a years wages to take a trip half way around the world to a country full of people that don't like us and with great risk of being exposed to diseases that we have no natural immunity against.

I/we want to experience a few moments of the purest essence of hunting something that is big, tough, and nasty, and we hope to obtain a lifetime full of memories.

Many of us have a lot of pride and are self made men that are used to doing things on our own with nobody to help us.

The thought of being wet nursed in any sense is horribly repulsive to most people like me.

I hope you don't take that as a critizm but as an insight into the "typical" American that might want to go hunting in Africa.

I just re-read this and it looks like I'm trying to represent a lot more hunters than I have a right to represent but I think that my attitude might represent a LOT of people anyway.

I make my living by giving people what they want (I'm a Realtor) and I know how critical it is to precisely interpret what people want, or think they want, and to give it to them and still show respect for their wishes.

$bob$

LDHunter Your post is a refreshing departure from the confrontational nature of most responces on subjects like this one, and because your post is non confrontational, please don't take mine to be either, eventhough we may disagree on some points!

quote:

I read about PH's shooting at the same time as the hunter or shooting immediately after and I automatically loose all fascination with hunting what I perceive to be dangerous game.

I don't necessarily want to take a chance on getting killed by my own inexperience but I want to feel that I could be the decision maker and the primary hunter with the PH along as an advisor and a backup in case things get beyond my ability to handle safely.

The above statement is something we agree on, at least patrially. I always have a little talk with a PH I have not hunted with, on this very subject. I make it very clear to him , that I' will do the shooting, as you say as long as I get the job done, and for him to only put a parting shot up the old shute as he inters the weeds, or is about to hurt someone. Baring that, he can save his ammo. Of course, there are sittuations where on intering the thorn for a wounded animal, all bets are off, because here you cannot take chances, especially with lion, or Leopard, because misses are so probable, and the fact that he is in the weeds was my fault in the first place!

Dangerous game hunting is DANGEROUS, there is no other way to say it, but it only becomes dangerous if you screw up, and let him get the upper hand. Eventhough you may be shooting a Cape Buffalo from 40 yds, doesn't mean he is no danger to anyone in your party, or to some unsuspecting passer-by if he is lost in the bush, and left wounded! This is why I say, leave the ego at home, and the PH's shot at a departing dangerous animal, headed for cover, is certainly called for, and is his legal obligation, IMO!

I haven't seen many of your posts here on African hunting, or the Big bore, or the double rifle forums, but I notice you have about 2000 posts on AR, so I suspect your posts are on more North American forums. New blood always brings new views on any subject, or area of discussion, so welcome here, and to Africa, if you get there. However, if you do go, don't go with the idea the hunting of dangerous game experience is a mediocre activity, because there is always the UNKNOWN right around the next bush, in day light, or dark. Things like walking miles back to the Bakki, in the dark with lions roaring, or Hyenas giggleing in the darkness, will set your hair on end, in a heartbeat!

..........Good hunting!

HUNTING CAN BE DANGEROUS

,.,.,I think Saeed and MacD37 hit the nail well on its head ..... Anything can be made dangerous if done wrong or if you are unfortunate.......But the walking out after dark would be hands down the most invigorateing for me......Thank you David for posting those 2 paticular pictures....The preconcieved notion of a straight frontal charge is well displaced by them .....Less than perfact shot angles..Where to put your bullet to keep from being compressed..... Will the medium bore that is easy to shoot work when things go wrong...ect..I like the pic of 500 gr shooting an elephant while his PH had his fingers stuck in his ears.....I couldn,t imagine a greater example of trust and confidence .. Obviously he [ 500 gr] had proved himself to be fully competant in that situation.....Tho a little off the point of this thread , that to me is the great challenge of Dangerous game hunting .. can you handle yourself well.. ,. It seems the best PHs are the ones who can help to bring that out in a person and keep them alive and healthy in the process !....

Yes... You three are certainly right. I didn't word my response very well and couldn't get back on to edit it so now I'll let it stand.

Those pictures certainly capture the dangerous aspect of dangerous game hunting.

I read more here than I post because I have found that I learn more that way.

Look for me to post a lot more after I start taking trips to Africa. If I go that is....

I have never been one to loose his nerve when the chips are down but I sure get an aweful case of the shakes afterward as the excess adrenaline departs.

I also shoot a lot at running game and very rarely loose wounded game but am aware that the stakes are much higher if the game is potentially dangerous.

I guess I jumped a bit quick, but this is the issue that has kept me from even a plains game hunt so far.

I can't imagine how frustrated I'd be if a PH shot game as I shot, or shortly thereafter, unless it was quite obvious I was going to be unable to "stick him again" before the game made it to thick cover.

I bet that a lot of hunters have read of just that happening and decided that the fun is over for African hunting and that they'd just be better off on a photo safari if they weren't the principal hunter/shooter rather than just a sport that was humored and protected like a child.

I'm sure that guys like me have some unreasonable expectations as to what will really transpire on their first safari but that dream that they carry in their heads that is often fueled by books and hunting videos is the essence of what drives us to do it in the first place.

It's something more exciting than whitetail, elk, moose, wild hog, and black bear hunting which is essentially all we have here within our borders.

I certainly wouldn't be exciting or even fun if we were wet nursed through the whole process.

I know I'm rambling and repeating myself but there you have it.

$bob$

Bob, do your research and book your hunt with a reputable operator. Any PH worth his salt wouldn't dream of shooting your animal unless he thought it absolutely necessary.

Hello Dave!

How are you? Hope all is well. Hope to see you again this year.

If you want to see the series of your fantastic photos of the elephant charge we faced you need go no further than African Hunting Reports section.

BTW, "500 Grains" is Dan McCarthy, who you know from Humani.

My best,

JPK
aka, John Kirlin

Hi John
I am well thanks and hope you are too. Yes, it would be great to see you again, are you planning another trip this year? I saw your report on the hunt, it was awesome, well done! Have been meaning to write to you and will do so soon - I have been working on something here which I think you'll enjoy. Take good care John.
Dave

Wow!

I didn’t realize my question would invoke so many responses!

I realize that this thread has spun into a different topic of discussion and I feel the need to comment on that. I have to agree with a lot of the thoughts posted here, so I’ll not make my post overly large by trying to quote others. Instead I’ll try to expand on my own thoughts…

I think we’ve raised a lot of questions and answers here as to why we hunt and or want to hunt dangerous game. My intent was to try to relate to others (i.e. non-hunters) why some people would want to participate in a certain activity that others just don’t understand. I believe that the sense of danger/risk (real or perceived) equates to the excitement we derive from certain undertakings.

A few posts back someone mentioned the “T-shirt crowdâ€. I’m sure that there are some people out there whom just want to be able to stand out. But in reality I think they are far and few between. Anyone whom puts themselves in harms way voluntarily just so they can brag about it is delusional. We as human beings can be exceptional but we are not unique. What one man can do so can another………..

I have not had a very marked life insofar as adventures I’ve been on or anything I’ve done. I do respect the experience of others…..But I’ve also had to face my own mortality and the mortality of my loved ones at a relatively young age. Ruark related the killing of a lion to facing a life threatening illness, so I guess I’ve been there and done that….

I’d never trade the years I battled against cancer for any other experience. There are times I wish I could forget, but in reality the fight I had is what shaped me into the person I am today……

I don’t have a “death wishâ€, I realize how short and precious life is. I want to go to Africa and hunt so that I can have the “T-shirtâ€. But, I’m the only one that’ll ever appreciate it. Whenever I speak of hunting “Buffalo†most folks equate them to cattle…If God decides to let me live to be old….whenever I’m sitting on my front porch sipping on a whiskey and reflecting on how I’ve lived my life………I don’t want there to be any regrets….

Matt V.

quote:

Originally posted by LDHunter:
UsanguSafaris,

I read about PH's shooting at the same time as the hunter or shooting immediately after and I automatically loose all fascination with hunting what I perceive to be dangerous game.

I don't necessarily want to take a chance on getting killed by my own inexperience but I want to feel that I could be the decision maker and the primary hunter with the PH along as an advisor and a backup in case things get beyond my ability to handle safely.

We sit here behind our keyboards staring at our monitors trying to decide to part with the best part of a years wages to take a trip half way around the world to a country full of people that don't like us and with great risk of being exposed to diseases that we have no natural immunity against.

I/we want to experience a few moments of the purest essence of hunting something that is big, tough, and nasty, and we hope to obtain a lifetime full of memories.

The thought of being wet nursed in any sense is horribly repulsive to most people like me.

I hope you don't take that as a critizm but as an insight into the "typical" American that might want to go hunting in Africa.

I make my living by giving people what they want (I'm a Realtor) and I know how critical it is to precisely interpret what people want, or think they want, and to give it to them and still show respect for their wishes.

$bob$

Bob,

Most if not all experiencd PHs will not shoot at your animal unless they feel it is necessary to stop the animal from getting away. Most Dangerous Game (Buffalo, Elephant) usually don't go down with just one or two shots unless the shot is a brain shot. Sometimes it takes 5 or more shots to put the animal down. When these animals start running, we as humans usually cannot keep up due to terrain. So, if you let a wounded buffalo, lion, elephant out of your site, the only thing you will be asking after that is trouble when you start tracking them following blood trails. I don't believe anyone can get 5 shots done in a matter of two or three seconds. And 3-5 seconds are plenty to lose any animal out of your site.

In my opinion, experienced PHs will shoot only if they feel it is necessary not losing the animal. As most of them will be hunting the same grounds after you leave, I don't believe any PH or client would want a wounded DG anywhere close to where they will be walking again in matter of days if not hours.

Unless you have experience hunting Dangerous Game, one can never understand the toughness and danger of these animals. What makes hunting DG exciting is that every situation is different and unique. Every animal reacts differently, and thus, making DG hunting quite addicting.

Any Ph shooting an animal I have shot, without my express request for him to do so, is not going to get paid for that trophy.

I have seen far too many trigger happy PHs on videos.

Those are the ones I know I will never hunt with.

If I wound an animal, I will track it right next to the PH, and take whatever consequences come my way.

I have been very lucky so far, as all the PH I have had the pleasure of hunting with think exactly the same as I do.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have been very lucky so far, as all the PH I have had the pleasure of hunting with think exactly the same as I do.

$Incredible!$

Saeed,

All I can say is...

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Any Ph shooting an animal I have shot, without my express request for him to do so, is not going to get paid for that trophy.

With all respect, how does that work when a decision has to be made in a split second?

Saeed & Bob,

This is a concern of mine as well. I’ve seen some video where I didn’t think the PH needed to shoot but did. Especially in situations where the animal is on the ground and there is plenty of time for the client to shoot or when the PH shoots simultaneously with the client.

I understand that a PH is a “professional†and I will respect their opinion and guidance. I need someone to help me pick the best animal the area has to offer and to back me up if things get out of control.

But for me a PH shooting when it is not really necessary would ruin the whole experience for me. I guess this is something that needs to be discussed openly and honestly before any checks are written…..

Matt V,

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Any Ph shooting an animal I have shot, without my express request for him to do so, is not going to get paid for that trophy.

With all respect, how does that work when a decision has to be made in a split second?

The PH I hunt with know that I have no objection to them shooting, if they think someone is likely to get hurt. They use their professional judgement.

If an animal is wounded, we follow it together.

Only on one occasion, following a wounded buffalo, we saw it only a few yards away, and both of us shot it.

On some of the video I have seen, some PH fire as soon as the client pulls the trigger.

That tells me the PH does not deserve the tiotle he carries. As a professional would at least give his client the chance of finishing an animal he has shot.

I know, there are clients who have no business going hunting in the first place.

I have heard of some that fire a shot, and as soon as the animal disappear, they walk back to the truck for a drink, instructing the PH to "do what he is being paid to do".

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

With all respect, how does that work when a decision has to be made in a split second?

The PH I hunt with know that I have no objection to them shooting, if they think someone is likely to get hurt. They use their professional judgement.

If an animal is wounded, we follow it together.

Only on one occasion, following a wounded buffalo, we saw it only a few yards away, and both of us shot it.

On some of the video I have seen, some PH fire as soon as the client pulls the trigger.

That tells me the PH does not deserve the tiotle he carries. As a professional would at least give his client the chance of finishing an animal he has shot.

I have heard of some that fire a shot, and as soon as the animal disappear, they walk back to the truck for a drink, instructing the PH to "do what he is being paid to do".

I think all bets are off if the client is so selfish that he doesn't care if the wouded animal gets into the thick, and then expects the PH to do "HIS" job. The fact is the "JOB" is that of the client to do his own clean shooting, and to at least be willing to go along on the clean-up of his mistakes.

Videos are notorious for giveing the wrong impression of what really happened on that film. One case that I have seen mentioned several times is that of a film with PH Anderw Dawson, and several clients that I know personally. On the film, in several place he fire immediatly after the client on Cape Buffalo. Without any explanation on film by the narrator, about this, gives the impression that Andy is a trigger happy PH, which he is absolutely not! These two or three Buff hunts were in some of the tightest bush anyplace, and any animal not knocked right off his feet, will be a BIG DEAL to follow up! In these cases the PH's follow-up shooting was discussed before the hunt started, and agreed on! This sittuation is fine as long as all agree on the way things are to be done, and if the buff was hit well by the first shot being a killing shot, then all is well.

I've hunted many times with one PH who has never fired his rifle but twice in all the times I've hunted with him. I had begun to wonder if he had any ammo! However, when he did fire I was more than greatful. because we got a unprovoked charge by an unseen buffalo from about 15 yds in thick cover, and he was withing 10 yds before he cleared the cover for a shot. I fird two from my double, and the PH fired two from his bolt rifle, all four hitting the buff, and puting him down at our feet! That my friends is the mark of a PH, doing "HIS JOB"!

WOW!!! Now THAT'S the experience of a lifetime...

Did your wonderful PH have a change of shorts for the both of you too? How about a strong cocktail a cigarette too?

$bob$

One PH once told me "the best hunting season I have is when I do not fire a single shot"

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:
Saeed & Bob,

This is a concern of mine as well. I’ve seen some video where I didn’t think the PH needed to shoot but did. Especially in situations where the animal is on the ground and there is plenty of time for the client to shoot or when the PH shoots simultaneously with the client.

I understand that a PH is a “professional†and I will respect their opinion and guidance. I need someone to help me pick the best animal the area has to offer and to back me up if things get out of control.

But for me a PH shooting when it is not really necessary would ruin the whole experience for me. I guess this is something that needs to be discussed openly and honestly before any checks are written…..

Matt V,

Matt,

Most, if not all, of qualified PHs are not trigger happy. Most PHs will shoot only if it is necessary.

Another factor is that ammo is usually expensive and difficult to get in Africa, the PHs will use their ammo when it is absolutely necessary.

I will have to agree with Mac that most video do not represent the whole truth on the situation.

I believe in most cases when a PH shot, the clients were thankful that the PH did that even if the matter was not discussed prior to the event.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
One PH once told me "the best hunting season I have is when I do not fire a single shot"

There is some truth on this statement!

quote:

I don't necessarily want to take a chance on getting killed by my own inexperience but I want to feel that I could be the decision maker and the primary hunter with the PH along as an advisor and a backup in case things get beyond my ability to handle safely.

Many PHs will allow you that oppurtunity but you have to show them that you have DG experience, the ability to shoot accurately and are cool in an emergency. That is a right you have to earn in my opinion. It is good to remember that if he lets you do something stupid and someone gets hurt it is his license on the line.

4655H&H