Yo ! Against my better judgement (and pleas) .. my pretty travel agent directed my flight from Calgary - to Los Angeles .. and then off to Oz. (I'm putting this in the African forum as I could just as easily be off to Joburg ..) Aiiieeeee !!! So I got the paperwork from the ATF and the Montana hunting license .. and applied for the required gun permit that I have gotten several times over the years to hunt antelope and/or swans in Montana . (I love Montana !!!) With four months to go I applied .. knowing that it has always taken me 6 weeks .. Just heard from the ATF .. no way, Jose'!!! I am in transit .. so I am not eligible to get that permit .. And they won't/can't issue me one .. Maybe in a few months the law might change.. ??? Aiiieeee !!! They suggested that I contact the airport in L.A. to see if they will permit me through ... I won't be entering the country .. just changing planes ... I love the Americans .. and the U.S. But this regulation is a bit silly .. Has anyone (Non resident alien) out there done this routine ?.. (maybe off to Africa or South America ?) .. I'm waiting to hear back from the LAX .. but I sure would want something official and signed before I would risk losing my funky left handed .416 Remington Magnum Sako ... Thank you ...

Scruff my man, you silly bugger! Don't tell me you haven't been listening to all my belly-aching about this since 2002!? Your sit'n is unfortunate and the same one I found myself in back then.

The bottom line is...its illegal for you to transit your firearm through the states. You can't get the one and only permit that will cover this situation. Some Canadian's do transit the US with firearms (Steve aka 700Nitro for example), but if the customs officer you bump into knows the law and asks you for a permit, he/she will seize your firearm when you can't produce it. You can try and fudge it by getting close with other permits, licenses, etc, but again, it comes down the particular individual that clears you through US Customs.

My advice: Change your flight and pay the penalty, or roll the dice but take a rifle you don't care about losing.

Call me if you want to discuss the specifics. I have it all very well documented.

Cheers,
Canuck

I checked this with John Frazier a VP of the NRA. It can't be done.

Yo, Canuck .. I well remember your earlier sad saga ... but just assumed that you hadn't had the time to get that form that allows one to go into the U.S. with a gun .. not that the blasted form did not exist ... Bah ! Luckily the Aussies are lenient and will surely sell me a gun or two ..

Last time I looked into this matter it was a beatiful Catch22: In principle one can get a permit from the State Department (not the ATF because you are not entering the USA) but it turns out that the permit has to be applied for by an American, you can´t do it as a non-US citizen. But don´t waste your time and energy, even if you do apply through an American, the State Dept. will drag their feet and not extend the permit to travel through a US airport with hunting rifles in transit.

The weird thing is that if you produce a US hunting license and get a permit (this time from the ATF. Lore says that they actually grant them...) then you are allowed with your rifle into the USA...

So the bottom line is: If you want to travel with a rifle don´t fly over the USA, fly directly to Madrid, Paris (no .308 or 30-06s though) or Amsterdam and maybe Frankfurt.

I am fed up with all the circus of travelling with rifles, so when I hunt in the US I just borrow a rifle from an American friend and when in Africa I also rent or borrow the guns...

I know, not nice (and maybe my epitaph will some day read "He borrowed a rifle...") but practical...

Antonio

Yah, I hear you Antonio ! I've always borrowed guns on my three trips down to Uruguay and it always worked just fine !!! If the world was a perfect place the chicks would disregard how ugly I am and go for my personality or something ...

Does anyone know of any issues travelling to South Africa thru Frankfurt or London???

I always (yearly) fly from Calgary to Frankfurt to Johannesburg .. No problemo .. although to save myself some irritation now, I continue on to Windhoek .. and skip the irritating hassle getting into South Africa with my guns ..

Scruffy:

Just a tip...

A local philosopher maintains that regarding beautiful young girls, after a certain age a man can only give them either the creeps or money...

Antonio

How about driving to Great Falls and flying to LA and pretend you are going to do some turkey hunting in Montana.

I don't understand all this,a mate came down to New Zealand last year he stopped at LAX to change planes and had no problems.
So how can guys from Canada and Europe get their firearms to New Zealand and Australia?? do they have to fly the other way
How can i get my rifle to Canada?? do i have to stop in the U.S and do some hunting??

quote:

Originally posted by martinbns:
I checked this with John Frazier a VP of the NRA.

Thanks for the promotion! Unfortunately, although I can correct the title, the answer stays the same. Best options are to change your flight, or use the outfitter's rifle.

Hmmmmmmm ???????? Drive to Great Falls ..and from there to L.A. ?? That is interesting .. Shoot some prairie dogs somewhere ... don't want to spend any time in that funky looking jail outside of Shelby, Montana .. and then continue the flight ... If I go again, and I usually go a second time to get things right ...

R.I.P. and the rest of the epitaph reads ." He died like a man with his borrowed gun".

Is that worse than staying home ... living some sorry life of quiet desperation ???

Scruffy - if you check your bag all the way through to Oz and don't claim it in LA, how would they know what you had in your bag?

From the beads of cold perspiration dripping down my forehead ! I'd make a sorry master criminal !

quote:

Originally posted by Woodford:
Does anyone know of any issues travelling to South Africa thru Frankfurt or London???

Franfurt in general is fine with hunting firearms, as long as they are checked through to your final destination. I.e. do not try to take them through Customs, then things get interesting...

London - in particular Heathrow - has a nasty reputation for lost and unretrieved guns, even in luggage checked through to your final destination. If you need to change airports in London, you'll need a licensed courier to take your rifles from airport A to airport B. I personally try to avoid flying through London at all cost.

Amsterdam used to be easy, but now requires "transit permits", and without one you are likely to be given the full police state treatment...

Paris still seems to be pretty laid back about checked through firearms, never had any problems there. Zurich is another good airport for travelling with firearms.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by scruffy:
From the beads of cold perspiration dripping down my forehead ! I'd make a sorry master criminal !

Sorry, scruffy… I didn’t mean to imply that you should do anything wrong.

It’s just that as I read your initial post, it sounds like you requested a temporary permit for importation based on a Montana hunting license – which implies that you would be hunting in Montana and that’s why you needed/requested the permit.

It also sound like the permit was denied because you were NOT going to be hunting in the US.

My point is that maybe they declined you for something you didn’t need to begin with.

If you were taking possession of the firearms in LA, then you would obviously need a temporary import permit and a hunting license to justify the need for the permit.

But if you check the guns from Canada all the way through to Oz, then you wouldn’t see them, touch them, have possession of them, or declare them to any customs officer until you arrived in Oz to claim them.

I could be 100% dead-wrong…. BUT If I’ve read your post correctly… and you don’t plan on claiming your firearms until you get to Oz… then I don’t believe this is an ATF temporary import issue at all.

I would contact the airlines (all of the named carriers that will be transporting your guns) and find out what their policy is.

The TSA does not note that any permits are required.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml

quote:

Hmmmmmmm ???????? Drive to Great Falls ..and from there to L.A. ?? That is interesting .. Shoot some prairie dogs somewhere ... don't want to spend any time in that funky looking jail outside of Shelby, Montana .. and then continue the flight ... If I go again, and I usually go a second time to get things right ...

Nice try, but still not legal my friend. A non-resident alien of the US may not export a firearm to any country other than that of its origin....and therein lies the rub.

Cheers,
Canuck

Remember how the Plains Indians used to 'count coup'? .. also remember the Legendary Surely For Real Crocodile Dundee .. and how he walked up to that fancy water buffalo and more or less put him to sleep with some kind of fancy hand motion and whatever .. Maybe I could just go to Block Busters .. rent the flick for about $2.00 ... watch his technique closely .. and skip the freakin' gun nonsense .. put it to sleep (an Oz/Canadian type of counting coup) .. By the time the buff figures out what is happening he is on the barbie !!! Hah ! Who said that I needed to continue my medication ???

Gentlemen,

At the risk of getting someting started....I really do apologize for my Gov't's rediculous
regulations concerning firearms in transit...it's embarrasing
Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
Gentlemen,

At the risk of getting someting started....I really do apologize for my Gov't's rediculous
regulations concerning firearms in transit...it's embarrasing
Rich Elliott

Rich,

I agree.

-Steve

OK, to satisfy my own curiosity, I called the TSA.

The agent said that if you check it all-the-way from Canada to Australia that you don't need any paperwork for it to be in the ailines' posession while it's in the US, but you do have to declare it to the airline and follow the rules below.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml