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I was wondering if any of the AR members has heard what has happened to an old friend and an exceptional PH, Sten Cedegren. Last I heard he was in Harare. Is he still alive? | ||
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He died in June 2007 | |||
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That is something else that makes Buzz's DVD on elephant hunting special. The interviews with Sten Cedergren and Ian Nyschens both of whom are now deceased, not to mention the very much alive Richard Harland who is interviewed on the DVD too. Mike | |||
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+1! Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Lulu's still in their old house just up the rd from my house. If any of Sten's old clients are ever in Harare I am sure she would appeciate a visit. | |||
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timot Can you clarify your statement. I have read about Sten and Ian, and I visited with Ian a few months before his death. I also know Buzz, have visited with him a few times, I know people in Zim that know him, and I know people that have, and talked to people that have hunted with him, and none of them have said ANYTHING negative about him. Everyone that I Know, that has hunted with HIM has had a great hunt. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by timot: I would not even dream about mentioning Sten Cedegren and Ian Nyschens in the same breath as Buzz Charlton. Two were real gentelmen, hunters extrodinair the other is a wanna be.[/QUOT   | |||
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Buzz was highly recommended by a fellow PH if I wanted to go after Ele. Seems the guy is gaining a good reputation as an Elephant hunting Guide. | |||
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Pretty ridiculous comment considering that both Sten Cedegren and Ian Nychens so obviously came to the opposite conclusion and, along with a third elephant hunting great, Richard Harland, appeared in Buzz's first DVD. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Considering the age of the other great ele hunters and time and era they shot and hunted most of their elephants and considering elephant hunting in todays terms I think Buzz is becoming one of the greats if he keeps up with what he is doing. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Buzz is a class act as were the three gentleman in his video. Months of the Sun(Ian Nychens), A Vagabond Hunter (Stan Cedergren) and The Hunting Imperative (Richard Harland) were all fantastic reads. I expect Buzz to produce a comparable piece of work in the future. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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No one, least of all Buzz, would compare himself to Sten Cedergren, Ian Nyschens or Richard Harland. I think it speaks volumes about a person that (i) they have the respect to include legends in elephant hunting on their DVD so that others can enjoy their memories and hear their guidance, and (ii) living legends like Richard Harland enjoy a good relationship with the person and speak highly of the person. You made a similar post on another thread and as I recall myself and a number of others asked you to provide some background on yourself and your credentials so that we could appropriately gauge the credibility to attach to your opinions. You elected not to reply but simply hide behind your throwing a "turd in the punchbowl" type of allegations. You obviously have some sort of ax to grind. Mike | |||
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Timot, I've spoken often w/Buzz about the gentlemen you mention, and I can tell you that HE had the highest regards for them, as he does Richard Harland (and vice-verse I might add). My two sons and I had the privilege of spending an afternoon with Ian prior to his death, thanks to Buzz. And we were going to stop by Sten's home early 2007, but unfortunately (for my son and I) he was too ill battling cancer to see visitors. They were great hunters from a different time. One of the main reasons that they appear in Buzz's first video was to preserve a bit of their charater and presence for current/future generations. Here is a post regarding Sten's passing: http://forums.accuratereloadin...411043/m/935107986?r | |||
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timotI have to agree with you on the fact that Cendegren, and Nyschens were gentlemen, but I would like to ask you how you would be able to tell if anyone is a gentlemen, because IMO, you have no background on that avenue. In that respect you seem to be the want-to-be, and with posts like the hit-and-run you just posted, I think you still haven't found the right street! Gentlemen don't snipe from the bushes, then flee! .........  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Yes, there would be better places than AR to "Shit stir" the likes of Buzz Charlton. | |||
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Why be a turd thrower? Why not simply ask? Free 500grains | |||
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You do not need to be patting someone on the back to avoid throwing turds. Free 500grains | |||
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timot, you have an odd way of making an inquiry. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Not to worried about Rugby and Cricket and I'm sure all three guys have been called things other then gentlemen at one time or another.  | |||
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You going to sell tickets to your next meeting  Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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Timot - Your previous posts and contributions to the forum were informative, coherent and insightful. You have called out some individuals who were promoting questionable hunts, which is of service to members of the forum as well as the reputable operators in Zim. We all should be upset by the shooting of trophy bulls in Hwange, helicopter elephant hunting, hunting on farms stolen from the rightful owners, illegally "approved" culls, and other acts by desperate individuals looking to make a quick buck. I am also disappointed by the operators who put nothing back into their areas, understanding that unfortunately the current system provides little incentive. But I must say, your last post makes way too many broad generalizations. I am sorry for the hardships you have had in the past, but trashing ALL operators in Zim accomplishes nothing and only hurts those who will hopefully emerge from the years of turmoil to be in position to become long-term stewards of the land. Some of these as you say "young" guys are intent on doing things the right way - desperately trying to get a foot-hold in a very challenging environment. I know that the companies that I hunted with in Zim do NOT have "generals and ministers" as partners. Many of us go out of our way to seek out the reputable outfitters, by talking to fellow professional hunters, and others who are involved in the industry. Both Zim PH's who I have hunted with pass the "Ganyana test" with flying colors, and are passionate and ethical hunters who long for the days of old, but who are required to live in the world that we have today. And there are others in Zim too. If you look back on the forum history, you will see that the crooks and scoundrels are usually called-out. But your rambling generalizations help nobody. And what crime does making a video constitute? Give me one of the current high-quality productions any day, over the old-school VHS tapes where Joe Blow the mighty hunter goes to xyz concession, shoots a dozen animals, then makes a video about it. Again, I think you are directing your anger at the wrong people. Why don't you identify yourself, nothing you have posted thus far should make you afraid to do so. Seriously, why would you not? Regards, Bill | |||
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Here here! Free 500grains | |||
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I'll add: 1.) This may be true of some or even most, but it is not true of all and safari hunting has ALWAYS been a business. Moreover, safari hunting in Zim is relatively new compared to the begining in Kenya and Uganda and elsewhere. 2.) Like BillC, I have looked. 3.) Neither Bin Laden nor the Taliban are ruling entities of any country - at least not now in the case of the Taliban, and they are not homegrown. Your comparison fails. A better comparrison might be hunting with an outfitter who has links to the Democratic Party though, as things are going. 4.) I have hunted with Roger Whittall Safaris and know Roger, have met Barry Duckworth. If Roger had come up with the video idea and been able to carry it through with the technology of his day, he would have. He was impressed with Buzz's effort when we discussed it several years ago, shortly after Buzz's first DVD came out. Myles McCallum used to Ph for Roger's firm, and Roger and Ann Whittall think very highly of him. They think highly of Buzz too and they are ALL friends. (Though Ann Whittall wishes Buzz would have married her daughter Sara.) To try to differentiate yesterday's first rate PH's and outfitters from today's younger next generation speaks of bitter old age. Roger was a young up and coming PH and then outfitter at one time, and Barry a Parks Ranger and then up and coming PH and outfitter, partners for a time with Roger. What is different then then now? Not nearly as much as you would like to imply when talk is limited to the top, upright PH's and outfitters, and close to nothing when you're on elephant tracks. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Anonymity breeds irresponsibility . . . bitterness breeds hatred and cynicism. I am not trying minimize or diminish whatever hardships, if any, you or your family may have suffered in the past but your message comes across like a lot of venting and shrillness to me. Mike | |||
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I am beginning to think timot is just another of Axel's troll impersonations. I think anyone who has had the alleged issues he has would have a real name and background to share with us. As far as Buzz and timot's opinion; son, you'd have to stand on your momma's shoulders to reach high enough to kiss Buzz Charlton's ass. Rich Buff Killer | |||
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Have heard of most of these guys and know a few have participated in commercial hunting DVD's, Hunt in Nat Park Safari Land and have remained on their own land, but know doubt with many hardships. | |||
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timot, I'll be blunt. Given your insinuation and innuendo at the outset of this attack, and your rant at the end, IMHO, this is a case of put up or shut up. So far, you have done neither. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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There are crooks in every game...and always those who are prepared to gain wealth by taking what others have built. None of the Zim operators mentioned fall into this category. Buzz and Myles sub let quota off various operators. None of those operators got their concessions by outright theaft. Emmanuael Fundera who has makuti was the first comercial operator to take that concession - prior to that it had been auctioned annually for Citizen hunting. The decision to do away with hunting for Zimbabwe citizens was the work of Willas Makombe - the fact that Fundera was a Beneficiary is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact that Mr Fundera acquired a farm or two on the governments ‘land redistribution’ exercise is an unfortunate blemish on him and a mistake that I believe will come back to haunt him- but it has no bearing on his operation in Makuti! And the likes of Buzz commit no crime, ethically or morally to buy quota there. If they bought quota from the Oosheizen’s farm near Kadoma…that would be a whole different issue!! (but they don’t) . For a young up and coming operator there are only two ethical ways forward. Inherit a decent farm from family (a bit difficult in zim at the moment), or sub let from operators with more quota than they can sell, and build yourself up to the point where you can throw the US$500 000 – 1 million on the table that is required to get a national parks concession. There are enough crooks who try to get ahead the dirty way – bribe council officials to swinga tender on a campfire concession, go into a ‘joint venture’ with the vice presidents daughter and try to kick a good operator out of his concession…and take over his camp, equipment and even vehicles. There are real scum enough without throwing dirt at those working their way forward. | |||
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Bill C had it right, I can't improve on what he said, but sure as hell agreed to it. Bye the way, Selby got his share of grief in his day for being tied to Ruarks writings , the same way we video producers get bashed from time to time for our work and efforts. Like Buzz, I can live with a few detractors who, for whatever reason ,don't approve of our method of sharing our love for the hunt. Sorry all the hard working Zim pros working like hell to scratch out an honest living did not grow up on the sunny slopes of Mt. Kenya in the 40's and thus pass Mr. Timot's smell test. As for me, I am sure the sun will still rise in Zimbabwe without Timot's blessing. Dave Fulson | |||
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Speaking of smell tests: "Buzz is an excellent young man, great elephant hunter and NO bullshit - which is why I was happy to be associated with his DVD." -- Richard Harland http://forums.accuratereloadin...=662105217#662105217 What more needs to be said? Mike | |||
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Boy, talking about a quote directly on point! Well done MJines! JPK Free 500grains | |||
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I have been away and have only just caught up with this thread so apologies if I am flogging the proverbial dead horse, but I just couldn't let this go. Timot - by all means criticize the bad guys and expose their failings, but dont hide behind anonymity just to have, what appears to be a personal dig at one of the good guys. Everyone seems to be interested in Timot's real identity and so I decided to do some digging of my own.Taking into account the suggested close association with the Butchers and Bill Bedford and the underlying critisism of elephant hunting videos gave me some clues. Isn't there a Tim Martin of Osprey filming ??? | |||
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Man I hope you are wrong on that. But would sure be upset if you are not, especially the videographer in me. Whoever it is, sure comes off as a Zim insider though. One with a very big axe to grind with lots of us. Totally agree with the concept that if you want to be a player on AR, or anywhere in life,at least let us know who you are so we can either brush you off, or give your opinions a serious consideration. Real gunfighters do it in the street at high noon for all to see. There are other names for those who bushwhack you from the shadows. Food for thought. Dave Fulson | |||
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To all AR posters on this thread I just got a very nice email from Tim Martin,a partner and owner of Osprey Films, based out of ZIM. R.Jolly had posted that he was of the opinion that Mr. Martin and Timot were one and the same. Tim,who I know from the film biz , got wind and asked me to post the fact that he IS NOT TIMOT. Tim is a veteran in this safari game and I am glad to report the information suggested was incorrect. I do not think R.Jolly meant to imply anything, he , like so many of us, would simply like to know Mr. Timots identity. Who knows who he is, but at least we know who he is not-Tim Martin . The info has now been passed. Good Hunting Dave Fulson | |||
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Whoever he is, I notice all except his original post on this thread have disappeared. Hasn't altered the fact that others quoted some of his comments though. | |||
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