I have heard there is a law on the books that disallows taking any rifle/handgun out of the U.S. if it is 50 caliber or larger.

I understand this to mean if the bullet used in a given rifle/handgun has a diameter that measures .500 or larger that weapon is not lawful to take out of the U.S.

I have heard this is not being enforced as of NOW, but of course this could change on any day.

ANY ATFE EXPERTS OUT THERE?

Thank you for any info.

This gets into the whole melee of what is, or isn't a "destructive device". If it is, in fact, considered a destructive device, there are a whole raft of hoops to jump through for transportation.

In the destructive device definition, (along with other obvious destructive devices, i.e., incendiary, explosive, poison gas, etc.) it states "a barrel or barrrels which have a bore of more than .5" in diameter. There are exceptions though and the one that most pertains to hunters is the very last line in the definition, where it ends with "or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes".

Now don't try blowing smoke up the Feds butt and tell them that you want to go to Africa with a Barret 50BMG for sporting purposes. I doubt that will fly. At best they will laugh at you. At worst, they might come look you up and talk to your neighbors.

For those rifles over 50 cal that weren't obvious sporting weapons of days gone by (577 Nitro, 600 Nitro, etc) it is best to get prior approval to have the cartridge designated "for sporting purposes". I believe the guys that came up with the 55 cal did just that. You might talk to Hubel on the specifics.

Anyway, yes, technically, over 50 is considered a destructive device and would be highly restricted on tranportation BUT if it is obvious that the rifle is, or you have gone through the approval process to get the rifle shooting the cartridge clasified as a sporting rifle, there should be no problem with transportation.

Destructive device definition 479.11 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide.

You might be able to find it on the web

What BigFiveJack is referring to is restriction in place pursuant to Section 123.17(c) of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).

We had this discussion a couple of years back and I emailed an attorney at the Office of Defense Trade Controls. An export license is required for the temporary export of any firearm (except for muzzle loaders) that has a caliber greater than .50. [Note: the law says "greater than .50 caliber"].

In practice, however, it doesn't seem that Customs enforces that rule. At least I have never heard of any returning hunter getting in trouble for taking a rifle, with caliber greater than .50, out of the country.

Regards,

Terry

I emailed the DDTC today and already received an answer.

***********************************************
From: Terry Carr
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:31 AM
To: PM-DDTC-Response-Team-DL
Subject: Traveling with Firearms

Greetings,

I am aware of the provisions of Section 123.17(c) which allow a US citizen to temporarily export (without an export license) up to 3 firearms [as defined in Category I(a) of Section 121.1].

Category I(a) of the US Munitions List says: "firearms to caliber .50 inclusive".

Am I correct in concluding that if a US citizen wanted to temporarily export a sporting rifle of greater than .50 caliber, then an export license would be required? For example, if I wanted to take a sporting rifle to Africa for a two week safari and that sporting rifle was larger than .50 caliber, then I would be required to get an export license for that sporting rifle?

Regards,

Terry Carr

***********************************************

That is correct, unless the rifle is a muzzle-loading, black powder weapon which would be exempt from licensing requirements regardless of the caliber.

Steve Geis

DDTC Response Team

Let sleeping dogs lie - export licence is a very tricky thing, I have an importer's licence and I am registered under the Arms Export Control Act but I still have to use a licenced exporter to get an export permit .. and there aren't too many of those guys around.

I have to agree with Russ. Why do we keep helping a dog dig up his bones. Leave them buried!

Thank you for the informative replies.

As to the gents suggesting that we not bring the issue up,

I just don't want to be in a position where the government can suddenly hit me on the head with a rule that had been being ignored.

So please explain, if a guy wants to take his 500NE or larger rifle to Africa, what is YOUR advise to avoid an unwanted surprise?

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
Thank you for the informative replies.

As to the gents suggesting that we not bring the issue up,

I just don't want to be in a position where the government can suddenly hit me on the head with a rule that had been being ignored.

So please explain, if a guy wants to take his 500NE or larger rifle to Africa, what is YOUR advise to avoid an unwanted surprise?

Well, it seems to me the law has been laid out. If you want to be in compliance, then I suggest you find a proper exporter and let him handle it. It looks rather straight forward to me. I am not an attorney, but I can read the rules.

Unless or until a clearly worded "exemption" clause is included into the reg's, you either chance it or leave it at home. This is why I will not be buying any 50cal or larger double rifles in the near future.

JohnS - Double Rifles are not classified as "Destructive Devices."

I have an email from the Chief of F&E Imports branch that says the following:

"From the pictures, it appears the firearm(s) is a double rifle. Specifically, this type rifle is popular for hunting big game in Africa for the last 100 years or more. Generally, this sporting, commercial, hunting rifle may be in calibers larger than .50 caliber. However, there is an exception for these large caliber rifles over .50 caliber and the rifles are not classified as DD (Destructive Devices) under the provisions of the NFA."

Bolt rifles - on the other hand - could be a concern... I don't know.

Well, there you have it..at least I hope so.

Chris

You and I are reading from the same page but if it is what Terry says, it sounds like it has nothing to do with "Federal Firearms Regulations". It sounds like another one of those things that the State Dept has their fingers into. State Dept is the sole perveyor of what, ultimately, can and cannot go out of the country. State and BATFE each have their own set of rules and one doesn't necessarily have to agree with the other....nor do they care. Spooky.

Terry, what dept is the Office of Defence Trade Controls out of?

NF Mike,

Office of Defense Trade Controls is under the State Department. You are correct, whether it is a "Destructive Device" is not the issue. BATFE has no jurisdiction when it comes to the export of firearms.

What is the issue is the right to "export, without a license".

The Arms Export Control Act (and the regulations promulgated thereunder in the International Traffic in Arms Regulations "ITAR") says you can not export firearms without a license. ITAR has an exception which says you can "temporarily export, without a license" up to three firearms (but you can NOT export any fully automatic firearms, military firearms, combat shotguns nor firearms greater than .50 caliber).

We have this discussion every couple of years, and the restriction, per the law and regulations, is clear. Why Customs doesn't enforce the law is anyones' guess. Over the last couple of years, I have emailed the DDTC twice and asked them about this, I have always received the same answer. You are required by law to get an export license for any firearm that is greater than .50 caliber.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by NFMike:
Chris

You and I are reading from the same page but if it is what Terry says, it sounds like it has nothing to do with "Federal Firearms Regulations". It sounds like another one of those things that the State Dept has their fingers into. State Dept is the sole perveyor of what, ultimately, can and cannot go out of the country. State and BATFE each have their own set of rules and one doesn't necessarily have to agree with the other....nor do they care. Spooky.

Terry, what dept is the Office of Defence Trade Controls out of?

I see what you're saying.

So if we cannot temporarily export 'military firearms', does that mean that 1903 Springfields, model 98 Mausers, and Remington model 700's require an export license in order to be taken on a hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
So if we cannot temporarily export 'military firearms', does that mean that 1903 Springfields, model 98 Mausers, and Remington model 700's require an export license in order to be taken on a hunt?

Here's the exact language:

Firearms or other weapons (e.g. insurgency-counterinsurgency, close assault weapons systems) having a special military application regardless of caliber.

I bet they mean mildot scopes too.