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Well written Mike. I am of the opinion that AR and the internet is a valued portal but perhaps not to be taken as seriously as others have in the recent and not so recent dissagreements. I mean really, in the latest case, if the lion hunter is universally scorned on AR does anybody really think that makes a difference once he walks away from the computer? Out his front door? If the hunters neighboors, father, sister, co workers, friends and hunting partners all enjoy the retelling of his Zambian adventure, who cares what the internet thinks? Sure I've been annoyed by something I've read on the internet too but I've found that simply cracking a beer open and talking to a real person usually makes WWW "pissing contests," forgettable. | |||
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I went and looked this thread up again. Mr. Robinson asked the forums a question and Brad answered it. Robinson couldn't stand looking at his own skewed and tarnished morality and bashed the very people he asked a question to in the first place! Mr. Robinson, if you can't handle the answers shut your hole. As for WrldHunter he never asked you a damn thing. So if you think you and Wrldhunter's situation were anything related once again you have your head crammed in your ass. The very fact that you brought that thread up here shows you have never gotten over it and you are a bitch that hopes no one else will notice. You like many people here are what I consider anti-hunters. Sure you have probably pointed a .22 at a cottontail once, but your personality is so disgusting you drive would be hunters away from this sport. I have never seen one of your posts that was worth anything more than used TP. Now that you know how I feel I hope you can learn how to deal with it, Mr. Robinson. | |||
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Wow...and Aaron and I contributed nothing to this downward spiral. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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i read the initial thread by aaron, but didnt have the stomach to read the present one in its entirety. I have only hunted one (old) lion, never plan to hunt another one. agree with aaron, for what its worth. We shouldnt be shooting 3 year old lions. thats all i have to say | |||
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ALF, Welcome back. Glad to see you here again. With over 40,000 members, some disagreements are bound to happen. 505 gibbs, Very well said.
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Brad, what a crock. Aaron's post was never meant to chastise the hunter. He fell over himself repeating that. Nor was it about "mine is bigger then yours". Those types of arguments belong in a deer camp populated by fragile egos and SCI circle jerks. I never saw any intent to bash the hunter, only that their choice was not in the best interests of future lion hunting. As I see it, the flame was directed at an experienced PH who probably knew better than to kill that lion. Aaron feels passionate enough and sure enough that this practice will end lion hunting period. And if someone, namely Abie DuPloy, contributes to the loss of the most magnificent game animal on earth, he should be called out. And rightly so. The problem is that even calling him out over the ether has very little impact other than populate this soap opera. It is only When people get mad enough to do something about it, change happens. So hats off to the men who are passionately working in LCTF and other conservation orgs. Thank you. "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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ONLY IF A PEDOPHILIC PRIEST WAS GRANTING THE ABSOLUTION- WHICH SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM- SEEMS TO BE PLENTY OF THEM ABOUT! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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Clearly my request has fallen on deaf ears.  I have no alternative but to boycott all of your future postings, effective immediately. Good day.  | |||
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I think Brad has a valid point and some posts are destructive and/or badly presented. I am also guilty of negative comment and tend to piss off many. I do not look before I leap and have fallen into some big holes. My posts are often instant and encouraged by emotion and sometimes (not always) I regret my action. If I feel that I have wronged then I apologize and learn from those who may oppose my thinking. My ridged values and hunting are dictated by what I refer to as tradition, a bit old fashioned but they are my values. I feel the forum is a good vehicle for healthy debate and it does address important issues. It also can be dreadfully mundane and repetitive. I for one use it as a marketing tool and many will notice that my writing can be sensational but nevertheless I try and make it of interest especially to those who have yet to hunt Africa. However there are some subjects that make my blood boil and I doubt I can refrain from comment but certainly I will have a long hard look before I next leap. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Oh dear, living in the backwoods of Africa, I was suffering under the illusion that "prima donnas" were only to be found in the entertainment industry.  SUSTAINABLY HUNTING THE BLUE PLANET! "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful, murder respectable and to give an appearence of solidity to pure wind." Dr J A du Plessis | |||
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Jack, My post was not put up to chastise anyone, nor did I take issue with the original posters point or reasoning. My point was that we should think about the collateral damage that occurs when we drag another out to make an example, and the piling on by others with extreme language proves my point on peoples "mob" mentality. As far as the "mine is bigger than yours" accusation, I read the entire post and never heard that "issue" aired, did I miss something? And, for what belongs in "deer camp" (I assume you are pointing to my analogy) being for "fragile egos" and "SCI circle jerks", I am not sure I understand your disdain. Are you above hanging out in "deer camp"? Have you gotten to a place in your hunting career that you don't hunt with the unwashed masses anymore? Oh, and the people I was referring to in "deer camp", weren't "SCI circle jerks", they were my dad and brothers and cousins and uncles and grandfathers, they were my family. I stand by my comparison of AR as "deer camp". Your point about the disdain being directed at the PH is well made, and fortunately, it re-enforces my point. A PH, booking agent and founder/leader of the LCTF takes issue with the lion that a PH allows a hunter to take. Surely, he has the connections that could bring this issue (and PH) to task for his issues in an arena that holds much more water than a public hunting forum. Is it necessary to drag the hunter out on a public forum for public condemnation (even if that was not what was intended, surely all parties concerned knew there was a high risk of that). Actually, I just realized you admit that dragging this out over the "ether"(?) would have little effect if any on who you and others say is the true offender. I have no issue taking my hat off to those who are willing to step up and pay their money and dedicate their time to causes they are passionate about, rather than just rattling about it. | |||
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505 great post. There are more effective ways to educate than the original "too young" post. As demonstrated many times here and in the sports and entertainment industries. Throwing someone under the bus ususally just turns into a quagmire. Please come to a discussion with facts and a non emotional presentation. Then maybe, you can get people that are willing to support your position and may actually contribute. Simple observation from a hunter that has absolutely zero desire to ever kill a lion. But not opposed to possibly supporting a good conservation effort. | |||
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I stand corrected and must point out that when Chipolopo completed his metamorphosis into Nganga...he shed his use of the F-word on public forums like his old skin. Sorry for the mischaracterization Nganga!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I feel compelled to point out that Aaron's post was completely factual, has garnered more support than opposition, and boosted awareness immensely. The people making up the LCTF have brought together all walks of life in regards to the lion and those that shun it for one simple heated debate are cutting off their noses to spite their face. We get into similar debates with in the group...albeit...at the end of the day...we put our best foot forward. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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So Aaron and ledvm, can you provide the forum with actual data to support your position. Please share as I love reading those links. We can become more informed. IMO, Aaron, you are in a great position to accomplish some very positive PR. ledvm can add his professional opinion. One of my goals is to hunt buffalo someday, without this forum, I would have never known about soft/hard bosses. This all due to a very educational thread started a very long time ago. I am not a trophy hunter by any means, but I strive to shoot mature representative animals. | |||
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Bravo Brad, the camaraderie of hunters should be the first priority, education and guidance can follow within that framework. Your epiphany is much better than the sort of thing that Michael mentioned :
Hallelujah and congratulations, all was very well said sir.  | |||
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This has been entertaining. To wrldhunter: awesome report, great trip, and superb trophies, all of them. Sounds like a perfect hunt with a good outfitter. To 505 gibbs: nice post. To the "experts" : I cannot comment on the lion subject due to the fact that I'm far to ignourant and would probably say something dumb like human overpopulation of the planet is the leading contender in the demise of wildlife. And because I havn't hunted lions for the last twenty years or mastered the art of Loosely Efficiant Drippy Vagina Meditation. Therefore I'm not qualified to speculate on this matter. " Knowledge without experience is just information. " - Mark Twain | |||
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SDhunter - Provide data to support our position?? Ok, but what exactly are you referring to? | |||
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Aaron, It might be helpful if you and Lane were perhaps to start another thread dedicated to the Lion Conservation Task Force that would help the rest of us to learn a bit more about the organization, what you are doing, what you hope to accomplish, who all is involved, and how the rest of us can help. If this has already been done I apologize as I must have missed it. Thanks, Andy | |||
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One thing I find odd about this whole debacle is the fact that it only became important enough to mention in the last few days. The folks that are working so hard to save lions from hunters so that different hunters can kill them later never thought to mention the LCTF until they trashed a fellow member. It seems like an issue this important would have come up before now. Maybe I missed it but I couldn't find anything by searching LCTF or Lion Conservation Task Force. What gives? It seems like a forum that has many people interested in lion hunting and safari hunting in general would be a good place to seek support. John Life Member Second Amendment Foundation Life Member NRA DRSS | |||
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I think he means the data that you, et. al use to support your position on hunting the conservation of the lion. I think he means he wants more than just the rhetorical part of the argument. Me also. | |||
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Nicholosi - You're not the first to say I trashed a fellow member, but it seems to me ALL of my negative comments were directed at the PH/operator. Please show me where I trashed the hunter? In fact, I said just the opposite numerous times. Guys, as for LCTF. Lane is putting up something soon. Look, I leave early Tuesday morning for the CAR, so busy getting ready for that too. In the meantime, I have started several threads with LOTS of info on the lion/hunting etc. Just do a search, in fact, I did one about 4-6 weeks ago with lots of info. | |||
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This sounded like trashing to me:
Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Aaron and Lane, Kudus to the all the effort. The link in the new thread provided me with excellent information. Aaron, have a great hunt in CAR. Please fill us in when you return. | |||
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Telling someone that their is a serious problem with their trophy; (like not old enough to be legal or damaging to species survival, not that it isn't big enough to be record book worthy) is kind of like telling a friend his wife used to be the town whore: difficult/painful to tell them, but they need to know. Caleb | |||
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Jason - I'm certain I've said this more than a dozen times now. But I guess I'll repeat it ONE MORE TIME. My inflamatory remarks were directed to the PH, I made that clear in my original post, and many more since. He had the knowledge/experience and ability to determine it was a young lion, and to keep it from being shot, he did neither. Again, did I make any direct inflamatory remarks at the hunter, no! Did I make direct/inflamatory remarks at the PH/Operator, yes! My 2nd quote, that's not trashing anyone???? Its a statment to everyone "be part of the solution, not part of the problem." That includes me too. | |||
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The most appropriate and timely message can be destroyed with poor delivery. This more than qualifies. This is not a new concept as I hunted in Tanzania in 06 under the 6 year guidelines for lion. It takes time for the message to be dessiminated and embraced. The quickest and easiest example would be whitetail deer management in the US. Did age and horn restrictions take hold and gain acceptance overnight? Many of us who waste too many productive hours on this site are aware of the status of the African Lion. So for that your rant has a limited scope of effectiveness. Quite honestly with the content and delivery utilized there are a certain number of readers who will take the opposite view. Consider you, the messenger, to be shot. Righteous indignation should never be an excuse for an overbearing diatribe. Alas, I fear this refelcts the general trend in decling courtesy and espect amongst all of us. Jeff | |||
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Jeff - I understand your point, I've made that a given. On the other hand, you too agree that most here on AR are "aware" of the plight of the lion. Yet, I honestly believe had I not said what I did, folks would have gone on just as always. If everyone is so "Aware", then do some just simply not care?? Are we really more concerned about my presentation of the facts, or the facts themselves? Just like everyone, I too can be prone to mistakes. But the facts I gave throughout the thread, stand firm. Look back through my hundreds of posts, have you ever before seen a string of posts I've made, with "declining courtesy" to others? I took a stand for something I believe in strongly, and know to be true. A REAL problem facing the African Lion, and the African Wildlife. Something that ALL of us hunter/conservationists should be concerned about, but unfortunately it doesn't seem that way. In the future my presentations will be better, but the tragedy in question, can never be changed. Now I'm just waiting for it to be presented to us, as another reason for the ESA listing/lion hunting closure to be further supported. And yes, it will happen. | |||
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Since the original report is gone I want to make sure everyone here who is giving the hunter a pass does so with exact knowledge of what he thought before he shot the lion. " This was the first time we had seen both lions in full daylight. The blueish grey lion was huge but also completely maneless, looked to be a older lion. The other lion was a little smaller body size but had a better mane than we had first thought. As we discussed whether or not to shoot the lion layed down in the grass, just his head was visible. I decided I was going to shoot this lion because I would rather kill a respectible lion than hunt for a monster and go home empty handed." Put the word "buffalo" or animal of your choice in place of "lion" and you get in my mind (yes just my opinion) the same result. It just so happens lion is the worst animal you could pick to make public the motives that drove this particular hunter. I will never try to impose my hunting ethic on anyone else unless another hunters ethic can be used to end what I enjoy. He is obviously driven by a need for "filling his tag" and while legal, feeds anti-hunter's claims we are driven by bloodlust and not sport. Throw in it is at best poor management of the resource and I think he got what he deserved. I wished we had the full story from the PH. I would not in the least be surprised if he fully informed the hunter that while the lion was legal it was a very young and a poor specimen. If he didn't then shame on him. I have made plenty of mistales in life and faded whatever heat came with those mistakes. We learn from the process and yes that can be hard. For those that think he did no wrong just one question. On his next hunt is it OK to do it again? Better yet can we all do it? I am pretty sure most of my problem with hunters that think you have to kill comes from my personal belief that safari and the sport of hunting is about the adventure and not a game of how many and how big. As long as there are 3 million whitetails in Texas I have plenty of room for those that need to fill their tag. But when it comes to 50k lions in all of Africa this "style" of hunting will end it for all. Kalahari Lion (Bots 07)  | |||
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