I also posted this in the THR string:

Would Emirates Air be an option through Dubai to Johannesburg?

Les

I have never had problems with firearms in the UK. Per Gracey travel BA will have control of the luggage from Dullas to Windhoek. They will not know they are firearms. I use a duffel that holds the hard case and has compartments for clothing and the whole unit looks like a duffle.

DOJ

I've just sent you an e-mail, but you need to ensure the airline know they're carrying your rifle. If they don't know it's a firearm the alarm bells will ring when it's spotted on the x ray machine. If Gracey Travel told you they won't know then they were very much mistaken

BA also require 3 days notice of a passenger travelling with firearms. Last year the bas***ds made a hunter sit and wait for 3 days in Jo'burg as he hadn't told them and they chose to enforce the requirement......honestly, what a crock of shit.

My man, you have picked a terrible combination--British Airways and London (actually UK is the problem)--you ARE going to have gun problems, no doubt about it. You will be very fortunate if your gun(s) get to Africa--or home again if they do. Few airlines would be a poorer choice, and the UK, especially London and Heathrow, are very against your gun.

"BA also require 3 days notice of a passenger travelling with firearms. Last year the bas***ds made a hunter sit and wait for 3 days in Jo'burg as he hadn't told them and they chose to enforce the requirement......honestly, what a crock of shit."

Well, thanks for making my mind up for me. I was sitting on the fence as to whether to go with BA or SAA. The BA flight includes a wonderful nine hour layover in scenic Heathrow. This is not enough time to leave the airport and tour anything, but is plenty of time to get me tired of waiting. I can probably read a book or two, though. We decided to book our flight with SAA. My friend Wayne just returned from Namibia via JoBerg. He says the seats are a bit smaller, but he thought it to be doable. Since my wife and I are small people we will probably do OK. The time of travel will be less than 19 hours with SAA as opposed to over 26 hours with the BA flights (including the 9 hour layover). Since I will probably sleep the entire trip from Atlanta to JoBerg, I will be better off, IMO.

I wish SAA had kept the 747s on this flight, but since they went to the Cattlecar340 I guess I will have to give it a try.

Ann,

Message sent. Thanks for the link.

Bill

Complaint sent.

FWIW, The upside of BA is that they have a very effecient computer programme for tracking and reconciling passengers with their bags. If you know the system and use it to help you then it's probably one of the best airlines to travel with. (esp with regard to firearms) But you do need to know the system, which was born as a result of the Lockerbie incident.

Anyone travelling with BA through the UK is welcome to contact me and I'll be happy to explain what they need to do.

I have had less problems with guns thru the UK than I have thru Joberg. That is not saying much as SAA have only lost my guns once vs 0 with BA. The statement about the guns not being noticable in a duffle did not come from Gracey but from my own experience. Steve at Gracey thought it would not be a problem with the guns as I was not changing airline.

Gents,

Most of the horror firearm stories surounding BA and / or Heathrow are pretty old and many are simply the result of hunters turning up ignorant of a few basic rules of the airline or the laws of our country.

These days non-Americans trying to transit the USA with firearms will have far more in the way of problems than those transiting the UK.

Regards,

Pete

Ann - thanks for the contact info. I sent a complaint. I'm still fighting with those idiots at SAA through my credit card company. They can't seem to grasp the concept that it's not proper to charge twice for one set of tickets.

That combined witht he fact that they lost my guns for one day and my luggage (which contained my ammo) for four days doesn't put them very high on my list of favorite airlines.

This attitude prevails when an airline has the advantage of being a national carrier.

Greece's Olympic Airlines is similarly afflicted with indifferent flight attendants, and apathetic (if not openly hostile) customer service reps.

George

Just got the same email. I was a bit suprised as I thought I would only get an acknowledgement that my email was received, you know like the kind you get from your Senator or Congressman.

Ann and Fellow Complainers,

I just received a form letter reply from SAA. They didn't even bother to address it to me--it's addressed to Steve at Gracy Travel.

It's the usual "thanks for writing but we've made up our minds so stuff it" response. Here it is:


August 16,2004

steve@gracytravel.com

Hi Steve:
As you are aware we have received some complaints regarding the Airbus. Here is the standard response South African Airways is sending to our clients. We do a weekly report to Johannesburg and are well aware of the difficulties affecting some of the passengers. There are no plans at present to change the configuration particularly since it is the same for all carriers flying our route, in fact Virgin has the same Airbus up to and including the video boxes under the seats.

South African Airways has taken a strategic decision in offering the legroom it currently has on its aircraft in order to match its major competitors in the markets it serves.

This not only maintains our competitiveness but also follows a global industry standard. Compared to airlines across the world, taking into account South African Airways major competitors flying into South Africa, one finds they all follow the same seat pitch in economy, which is 31 inches (78,74cm).
As the airline industry developed primarily in the United States, seat pitches are measured in inches. This standard is not compulsory and very slight variations, if any, will be found. Our major competitors into South Africa all offer a 31-inch seat pitch, while one or two offer a 32-inch pitch maximum.

In business and first class, a similar strategy is adopted, with competition offering a lie-flat seat. We have fitted our entire Airbus fleet with a complete lie-flat product in the premium section as well as in the 747-400.

We appreciate that you took the time to send us your comments. We understand that you have a choice of carriers, and we very much want to keep your business. Please know that your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Maureen Gordon
Manager, Customer Care - USA

Ms. Gordon,
I am an African hunter as well as a booking agent for African safaris. My family and I have flown to RSA several times for various safaris and I have clients going yearly. All was great until the dreaded Air Bus appeared. While I have not yet had to fly it (I am 6'3" and 210 pounds) I am not looking forward to it.
My clients are bitching up a storm about narrow seats (esp. window) and the video box under the seat taking up leg room.
Some of my recent clients said they would not fly the Air Bus again. They will figure how to go to Europe and in. They are very unhappy with the room and configuration of this plane. I never got a "legitimate" bitch about the 747.
The other complaint is the stop both ways at Isle de Sal.
I understand you are not the purchasing agent but it seems you have the task of getting your ear bent about this not so wonderous flying machine.
To top it all off now RSA has come up with a number of new and goofy firearms laws that makes it even more difficult for the traveling sportman. Bah! Humbug! and other assorted rumblings.
Better tomorrows,
Mims C. Reed
Hunters Headquarters
1725 Woodhill Lane
Bedford, Texas 76021
USA

Harry,

You forgot to ask her if she wants to buy a Tuffpac!

Regards,

Pete

Post deleted

I just got the form letter address to Steve also.
Whoopee!

Does anyone know which seats have the "video boxes" underneath? I want to avoid those if possible.

Thanks

I have never had any trouble with BA and in fact prefer it to Southern Africa. I guess us guys in the West have better options as we can fly NS to London or NS to Frankfurt.

What's the big deal about notifying them 3 days in advance of firearms? You buy your ticket further ahead than that and you should not be surprised that you are taking a rifle. If you want to lay over in Britain you can put your firearms in a Customs Bond at the airport for up to two weeks free of charge.

A BA rep will have to go with you to reclaim them but then will arrange for them to be put on the plane for you. Time consuming but quite simple.

I also agree with some of the above posts that I do not have any problems using BA to go anywhere in Africa. I use BA all the time going to tanzania and have never had any problems at all. I am using BA when I go to Tanzania in October as well. I would much rather go through London into either Tanzania, Zambia or South africa than to use SAA with their little charter plane from Atlanta. Have also never had any clients have any problems with BA either. One time I did use SAA when going to Tanzania and the idiots lost my gun case which by the way had one of my precious doubles in it for an entire month!!!!!! How can you loose someones guns for a month! Needless to say i did not have my double to start the season off with. I guess i am lucky that they found my gun case. Anyway, to all of you who do not like BA or KLM, keep using SAA. If your travel agent is not organized enough to let BA know 3 days in advance of travel of your guns, I highly suggest you find another agent.