It is possible with the CZ safety to accidently just snick the safety past the off position as the bolt is worked hastily and find that the rifle will not fire-this can be a surprise at times to say the least!

What! Another problem with the best commercial mauser type action currently being produced????? Add another thing to the ever growing list of deficiencies with the CZ!
[left][right]What! Another problem with the best commercial Mauser type action currently being produced????? Add another thing to the ever growing list of deficiencies with the CZ!
[left][right]

Actually my rifles carry both but that's not as important as the fact that they all go the same way. Down left to Fire! Whether it's a standard Mauser flag on my peep sighted .318 and .404 or FN style on my .375 and (new) 6.5 Swede I never have to look to figure out what I can do next. Down left to Fire!

To me, the more important issue than 2 vs. 3 pos, is how positive the safety is, i.e. what are the chances it can come off inadvertently in the feld. Does it lock the firing pin, or just the trigger?? Can it be operated silently??

A Win type safety has most of the attributes mentioned above - apart from not being super silent to operate, unless you grab it with your fingertips. But the fact that that it is 3 pos vs. 2 pos is just a minor advantage.

Regarding the CZ safeties. I don't know if the ones I have seen are representative of what is normally installed on these rifles. But the ones I have run into, have worked with the firing position being the rear position - as opposed to the usual fire=forward. That alone constitutes a disadvantage to me, as it requires extra training, and involve mental readjustment when you switch from rifle to rifle. Not a good thing.
- mike

I like the CZ/Brno "reversed" firering rear position saftey because it works just like cocking the hammer on my Smith & Wesson 4" 629 .44 Magnum Revolver

I consider safteys working the other way, firering forward to be confusing

Husky

Dear lb404,
Please don't jump to any incorrect conclusions.I have a 416 Rigby CZ 550 magnum and like the rifle very much.I would recommend it to anyone as a great place to start for a DG rifle.I have owned a 416 Rem from Win. in their Safari grade and it was a piece of shit-I sold it to by the CZ.BUT-the safety does have a problem-fix it before tackling DG.I have also used a 378 Weatherby on two DG hunts-one on Northern Territory buff here in Australia and on another occassion on a Cape buff in the Zambezi valley-it is also a good rifle but has its flaws too.

A consderation for me was to try to have the same type of safety on all my rifles. If you've got one Remington and one Winchester and one CZ, or whatever else, you are going to have different safeties depending on the rifle and this is not conducive to correct reflexes when they are needed the most. It is possible I believe to have a riflesmith convert the safety to a Winchester style safety (American Hunting Rifles is at least one who does this).

Dear lb 404,
Please don't jump to any incorrect conclusions .I have a 416 Rigby CZ 550 magnum and like the rifle very much .I would recommend it to anyone as a great place to start for a DG rifle .I have owned a 416 REM from Win. in their Safari grade and it was a piece of shit-I sold it to by the CZ. BUT-the safety does have a problem-fix it before tackling DG .I have also used a 378 Weather by on two DG hunts-one on Northern Territory buff here in Australia and on another occasion on a Cape buff in the Zambezi valley-it is also a good rifle but has its flaws too.[/QUOTE]
It was a joking prod to the Mauser crowd. What were the major failing of your Winchester safari grade. I have owned six or seven in 375 and 416 and had no issues. In comparing a Winchester to a CZ there is none with the better of the two(for US hunters) being the Winchester. What problems did you have with the Winchester? For most US hunters, the safety is a problem as it works different to any here. The trigger is poor by comparison to the Winchester both in function and mechanics. Metallurgically, the Winchester wins again although they are close. Gas handling is similar. The stock on the Winchester is more to Western taste. For me to correct all of the things I feel are wrong on the CZ, I could buy two of the Winchesters one in 375 and the other in 416. This is not a slam on your choice of firearms. I just think that most Americans that want an African rifle will be more satisfied with the Winchester. They are not without fault as I have had a couple that needed some tuning up. Most of the rifles made now do. I did buy a 527 CZ a couple of years ago to practice off hand shooting in a local gun range in preparation for a safari. The firing pin spring was too weak. It took several trips to CZ USA to correct the issue. I finally sold it and bought an old Mark mini Mauser at a gun show that shoots very well. It has the safety on the side like the FM supreme 400. Most everything from the factory may need tweaking as those that now make guns for us are usaually displaced from the actual function of the weapon. Our fiararm heritage is being lost therefore the ability and care in manufacturing is also left to the bean counters therefore is also lost

I use rifles with each kind. One just has to paractice enough with each kind. I find no differants in use.

It is a personal thing. I feel 3-position safeties are dangerous and a waste of effort, and prefer the simple 2-position Rem. 700 or CZ safety.

It depends on where and what you are hunting. 3-position safeties can get hung up in the jess and get switched from ON to OFF fairly easily.

But it gets absurd asking advice about personal preferences, as they are preferences. Go buy/use some rifles with each and decide yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
It is possible with the CZ safety to accidently just snick the safety past the off position as the bolt is worked hastily and find that the rifle will not fire-this can be a surprise at times to say the least!

It is certainly possible, but not very probable unless you have huge fingers.

Funny thing, I own both a Winchester Model l70 and a CZ 550 and find the CZ's three position safety far more natural to operate.

I spoke with CZ once and they said that they have a mod70 style safety available as a drop in, has anybody tried theirs?

personally I don't have a use for that extra position, I put a 2 pos on my 7mm mag argentine and I think that's just perfect.

Red

Hugh, 1. Is a 3-position safety really needed on a working DG rifle? Absolutely not. 2. Is a 2-positon safety really good enough? Absolutely yes (if it is positive, swings in the direction you prefer and locks the bolt).

I think a good 3-position safety is aesthetically pleasing for most (me included), but I also think a good 2-position safety is more utilitarian for me. I use Mauser-wing, Winchester 3-position, Ruger 3-position, Remington old/2-position, Remington new/2-position, CZ new/2-position, and a few different tang and crossbolt safeties. For pure speed, I think it's hard to beat a tang safety/double (though this does not apply). For overall performance and only slightly slower, I give the nod to the CZ new/2-position. Aesthetically superior but slightly behind the CZ new/2-position in performance, falls all of my 3-position safeties. If no scope applied, I would bump the wing safety up a notch. Bottom line, you need to decide.

I'm sure when done, your rifle will be best for you. later, Gary.

The CZ safty is quite a good safty and it well posititioned for dangerous game...I would just use it as is...

A M-70 3 pos. safty is hard to beat..They are as good as it gets. I much prefer them to the two position types. They have a longer arc and do not tend to flip off.

As to a 3 pos. safty getting tangled up in the jesse, that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard on this board...Mine have not in the last 60 years...

Grandpa,

Maybe you've never been in jess!!

Have any of you tried a winchester style 2 pos. safety? That is, with the same form etc as a 3 pos. but with only "full safe" and "off". I've never really felt the need for the "middle safe" possition to empty a rifle, as this is only a matter of knowing where your fingers are when emptying the gun IMO... I'm having such a 2 pos. safety installed on my mauser to try out at the moment actually.

I've said what I think based my experience. I think a two position saftey for dangerous game is way to go. It's On or Off. The middle position creates an undesirable possibility.

Hugh W, I'm told that you can have a two position tang saftey on the CZ 550. Takes some work though.

A lady friend once decided to unload her Remington 700 and couldn't do so on the safe position and she had to push the safety off to remove the round from the chamber.
Little did she know that the button from her hunting coat had become wedged between the trigger and the forend of the trigger guard and immediately as she pushed the safety off the gun discharged.....

Remington today allows the bolt to open on the safe position but that don't allow to lock the bolt as a three position safety does.

If you can afford the gun.....you can afford a 3-position safety.....that's why Mauser 98s had them over 100 years ago!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Keith Atcheson:

... I'm told that you can have a two position tang saftey on the CZ 550. Takes some work though.

Keith,
That is very interesting. Do you know anyone who has done this or can do this?

I would prefer to have a tang safety on all long guns. Push forward to fire. Leave bolt turned up sometimes, with the safety pushed forward, as many do near the moment of truth if knowable.

And watch my buttons!!!

RIP

Yes I do. I'm sending you a PM.

lb404-the safari grade Win.in 416 Rem I had was a complete dog.It was a special order rifle here in Australia-took nine months to arrive!!!
To cut a long story short the stock was replaced twice by the agent due to cracks-this took a total of three years!!!!
The rifle had a great deal of work done to it to feed and would still fail "just occassionally"-it sure was a dangerous game rifle(to me that is).The last straw was when it let me down in Zim after firing my first shot at a good bull giraffe-turned itself into a single shot because the magazine spring decided it was time to give up.You could not give me one of those rifles now without pointing it at me first!
This may add to the debate

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=bigbores&Number=20414&Forum=All_Forums&Words=wombat&Match=Username&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=19794&Search=true#Post20414

I prefer the 3-postion safety. I prefer the added third option and really don't understand how folks have issues with them "functionally speaking".

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
Have any of you tried a winchester style 2 pos. safety? That is, with the same form etc as a 3 pos. but with only "full safe" and "off". I've never really felt the need for the "middle safe" possition to empty a rifle, as this is only a matter of knowing where your fingers are when emptying the gun IMO... I'm having such a 2 pos. safety installed on my mauser to try out at the moment actually.

The Wells actioned rifle has the two positions and that is all. It seems fine. Haven't used much.

Whatever you choose, it is best to have all of your rifles operate the same way. When the pressure's on, you don't need to be thinking about the mechanical aspects of your equipment.

So, if you're a Model 70 guy, buy all Model 70 rifles. If you're a CZ guy, buy all CZ rifles. If you're a Blaser guy, well, ... enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by wayne nish:
So, if you're a Model 70 guy, buy all Model 70 rifles. If you're a CZ guy, buy all CZ rifles. If you're a Blaser guy, well, ... enough said.

If you're a Blaser guy; sell it and by a real rifle!

(Johan will probably pop up here now and concur. )

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
If you're a Blaser guy; sell it and buy a real rifle!

Erik

Now we will be in trouble, blaser trash will soon be out in force I will never again buy a blaser R-93

I'm most happy with mausers

Cheers
/ JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by wayne nish:
Whatever you choose, it is best to have all of your rifles operate the same way. When the pressure's on, you don't need to be thinking about the mechanical aspects of your equipment.

So, if you're a Model 70 guy, buy all Model 70 rifles. If you're a CZ guy, buy all CZ rifles. If you're a Blaser guy, well, ... enough said.

Wayne that is an excellent point.
Consistency in the operation of your firearm is key.