I loaned a rifle to a client from Europe while he was hear in Montana on his Mountain Lion hunt. When I was at the trailhead with him before sending him into camp, I took the gun out of the soft case and showed him the safety and such and the gun was fine. When I picked them up after being in camp for a week the gun case was soaking wet. I dint look inside but took him back to town and dropped him at a hotel as his flight home was early the next morning. When I got home this is what I found!!!!!



Besides being covered with rust there was no other damage to the gun. The guides told me that they did not get into an accident with the snowmobiles and have no idea how this could have happened. I haven't been able to contact the hunter as he is traveling back to Europe. I didnt charge him for the loan of the rifle but I am dam sure going to have a contract from now on about covering damage like this. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

looks like they used it for a pry bar.

Man but your face must have been a picture when you saw that........ talk about a WTF moment!

More seriously, if it'd been me, I'd be as mad as a hornet & as you say, it underlines the need for a contract that covers ALL eventualities!

Looks to me like it somehow got driven over perhaps?

April of 12 @ Johannesburg Saps office a older gentlemen had his gun case lock broken off and the stock was broken. I felt bad for the guy. He was in his seventies from Mt. or Wy. and this was his first safari.

In my mind that damage has to be intentional.

Did he get a lion?
If not he might have done it intentionally.

If it was in a soft case, surely you'd have noticed the bent barrel when he returned it to you...... is there any way the rifle could have been damaged (driven over?) after he returned it to you?

I did notice the case was a little out of shape but since it was soaking wet I just figure it was that. I actually was sick to my stomach when I opened the case. He did not get a lion ( first hunter in 3 seasons not to get one with us) and that has come up that it was done intentionally. I would think that the stock would break before the barrel was bent this much. Just crazy!!!

I saw one get bent like that when it was rolled on by a packhorse

No horses on this trip, snowmobiles, but the guides said they never had a wreck. When I got the rifle back it went in the backseat of the truck until I got home, then opened on my way walking into the house.

I'm pretty damn sure the stock would break before the barrel bent IF the force were applied to that end but I can't see it being done that way.

To me, that looks like a car drove over it or a VERY heavy weight fell on it & if I were the owner, I'd look for accidental causes before blaming the client's deliberate actions too quickly.

Is there any scratch marks or other damage on rifle or gun slip by any chance?

I'm REALLY surprised you didn't notice the odd shape of the slip when he handed it over to you if it damaged like that when he gave it to you because I sure as hell would....... I guess it also raises the point that one should always check the load status as soon as a firearm is handed from one to another.

I can just imagine your reaction when you opened the case, I know what mine would have been. It was not very nice of the client not to inform you of what happened to your rifle, at least have the decency to report it. I have learned that not all clients are of the honest breed.

Hopefully it is only the barrel and a hell of a job to clean out all the rust

I had a client a few years ago that did a hunt in November, it rained the whole trip. He used one of my rifles, I spayed it with Q20 to try and keep the water out, I had to strip that rifle to pieces to get all the rust out. Everything had to be taken apart to get it rust free again. It is a very big job - good luck with that bit.

Is there a possibility that it could get damaged on the way back from camp, maybe bad packing?

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Did he get a lion?
If not he might have done it intentionally.

THIS….

1000%

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Did he get a lion?
If not he might have done it intentionally.

THIS….

Once on a late Colorado elk hunt ran across a guy who was stuck in the snow. He was using his rifle barrel as a jack handle for his hi-lift jack. I had mine, offered it up, but was tooooo late as the damage had been done.

I loaned someone one of my Browning shotguns once and when he returned it, it was in the soft gun case and he was out of there like a bat out of hell. When I opened it up, he had apparently dragged the receiver over a barbed wire fence and scratched the hell out of it. There's two things that I never loan: My wife and my guns. This dude has got a lot of explaining to do on that one. There is no way that he did not know the condition of that rifle and what happened to it. Maybe there's a conspiracy going amongst those on the hunt from all of them to not know what in the hell happened. Someone would be paying for that rifle, if it was up to me, and if I had to fly to Europe to collect.

I certainly agree that if the client is responsible or if it happened whilst it was in his care, he should be made to pay but if someone handed me a soft rifle case with it's contents bent like a banana, I'd notice in the first few milliseconds...... to say nothing of checking the load status as soon as I got hold of it.

I wonder of there's any way it might have happened AFTER the client returned it?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Man but your face must have been a picture when you saw that........ talk about a WTF moment!

More seriously, if it'd been me, I'd be as mad as a hornet & as you say, it underlines the need for a contract that covers ALL eventualities!

Looks to me like it somehow got driven over perhaps?

Walter came in one with a double rifle in a case.

He said it belonged to Arif and he was going to pass by and pick it up.

He also said that Arif did not want to pass by my house, as he is scared of snakes, and he thought I had snakes, and might do something to him.

But, apparently Walter assured him I did not have any snakes, and Walter would make sure I did not play tricks on him.

Walter busied himself with the refreshment table, to get himself his usual coffee and cake.

I took that opportunity and ran up and got one of our snakes, and put in the rifle case with the rifle.

A while later, Arif arrived, and Walter played host to him by bringing him coffee and cake.

After a while talking, Arif went to look at his new rifle.

He was telling us something as he opened the gun case.

"SNAAAAKE!" was all we heard as took off like a bat out of hell.

Walter was laughing so much, he spilled his coffee.

A few minutes later, Walter got a phone call from Arif.

Apparently he was not too happy about Walter, and he promised to never, ever enter my house again.

I took the phone from Walter.

"Arif, stop driving if you are scared of snakes", I said to him.

"I am driving as fast as I can to get as far as I can from you!"

"Arif, listen to me. STOP THE BLOODY CAR RIGHT NOW! There is another snake in it"

He dropped the phone, and the last I heard was tires screeching and swearing.

Arif doesn't come to my house any more.

Saeed

Man, but that was evil!

That is seriously cold blooded.
Wish I had done it.

I don't know what Saeeds story has to do with a bent barrel, but it durn sure was funny.

I have seen and straightened a barrel similar to this before. A forestry worker from the town I lived in was track clearing and leaned his 270 Win, a Sako if I remember correctly, against a fern tree or bungy as we call them here. and carried on down the track doing his track clearing work using a hand slasher. On returning back up the track later on he spotted a bungy sitting out close to the track so took a good swipe and cut it clean through hitting his rifle barrel on the other side.

The barrel bent like a banana taking a reasonable gouge on the barrel from the slasher. Like the rifle in this post the bend in the Sako barrel was not a kink but a smooth radius bend.

I did some gunsmithing in those days living in an area well remote from the City and the few full-time gunsmiths in NZ at that time.

Although not promising anything to the owner who pleaded for help to get his well used gun back into working order I put the barrel and action in my big heavy duty lathe between centres and used the tool post to straighten that barrel. Once spinning straight I supported the barrel in a channel and carefully peened the gouge back into place. Checked the barrel between centres again and it was perfect. From memory it took very little adjustment of the scope to shoot in again, not knowing how well it was shot in previous to the little 'accident'.

This may sound a little far fetched but I assure you this was very true. The barrel was surprisingly pliant.

I have read where the gun-makers in the old BSA factory in England straightened barrels after boring and rifling by belting them over lead blocks and looking through the barrel until they could see a perfect circle. This was the job of the good makers who could detect even the slightest bend by eye.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I have read where the gun-makers in the old BSA factory in England straightened barrels after boring and rifling by belting them over lead blocks and looking through the barrel until they could see a perfect circle. This was the job of the good makers who could detect even the slightest bend by eye.

There is a photo in Jack O'Connor's book The Rifle in which a Wetherby employee is doing just that.

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
1000%

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Did he get a lion?
If not he might have done it intentionally.

THIS….

Yep - That was my 1st thought, too, as he had both time and oppurtunity to tell you - BUT DIDN'T!

It apparently stayed in the soft case to whole trip. I have talked to the guides a couple times now assuring them that even if they did it I am not looking for them to pay for it and there was no crash or rollover with the snow machines. I was handed the rifle case from the hunter and put it the back seat of my truck. Actually in the case the gun kind of pivots and is not as obvious as you would think. I sent a picture to the booking agent in Hungary and they have asked the hunter about it but not shown him a picture yet. He claims he has no idea. I have no reason to doubt him I guess. So I am just chalking this up to a lesson learned and will have a buddy of mine that owns a pawn shop keep his eyes open for a beat up old lever gun and that can be the loaner Lion Gun.

you sure have to admire the integrity of the client. What a piece of work.

Nobody knows? Nobody admits? Don't be stupid, everyone of them knows what happened to that rifle. Don't deceive yourself. You have every reason to doubt all of them.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I have read where the gun-makers in the old BSA factory in England straightened barrels after boring and rifling by belting them over lead blocks and looking through the barrel until they could see a perfect circle. This was the job of the good makers who could detect even the slightest bend by eye.

There is a photo in Jack O'Connor's book The Rifle in which a Wetherby employee is doing just that.

At the end of the barrel production line at Savage Arms. They have a guy who inspects every barrel by eye and bends them back to straight if they were bent in the manufacturing process.

Tony, sorry to hear this happened. Glad I wasn't the agent on this one. Hope you get this resolved as I would be pissed too.

quote:

Originally posted by Hntnhrd:
It apparently stayed in the soft case to whole trip. I have talked to the guides a couple times now assuring them that even if they did it I am not looking for them to pay for it and there was no crash or rollover with the snow machines. I was handed the rifle case from the hunter and put it the back seat of my truck. Actually in the case the gun kind of pivots and is not as obvious as you would think. I sent a picture to the booking agent in Hungary and they have asked the hunter about it but not shown him a picture yet. He claims he has no idea. I have no reason to doubt him I guess. So I am just chalking this up to a lesson learned and will have a buddy of mine that owns a pawn shop keep his eyes open for a beat up old lever gun and that can be the loaner Lion Gun.

What type of hunter is it that did not take the rifle out of the soft case. I would expected that he will at least take it out once a day to dry it and clean it. I also think the guides did not do their job properly, they should have checked and at least suggested that the rifle must be dried and cleaned every evening.

I smell a big fat rat.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
There's two things that I never loan: My wife and my guns.

Add tools to this

[/QUOTE]
At the end of the barrel production line at Savage Arms. They have a guy who inspects every barrel by eye and bends them back to straight if they were bent in the manufacturing process.[/QUOTE]

I would hardly think any of the barrels he straightens from the production line which may be slightly "off-center" are bent as this one.

In the long run it would probably be cheaper and safer to replace.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
I don't know what Saeeds story has to do with a bent barrel, but it durn sure was funny.

I posted that story because of what Steve said.

Seems to me there's several errors made and several lessons to be learned here.

The outfitter seems to have given the rifle to the client who didn't check initially it's load status, then didn't check it's zero and didn't clean it.

The guides in camp (presumably) didn't check anything or suggest the client check anything & nobody apparently noticed anything amiss.

The client then handed the rifle back to the outfitter again without checking the load status and the outfitter took it back, again without checking the load status and in all that time, absolutely no one noticed the rifle, that was in a soft case had the barrel bent something like 30 degrees out of true.

Maybe it was the Tokoloshe that was to blame?

quote:

Maybe it was the Tokoloshe that was to blame?

Bush did it.
He's got the blame for everything else.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

At the end of the barrel production line at Savage Arms. They have a guy who inspects every barrel by eye and bends them back to straight if they were bent in the manufacturing process.[/QUOTE]

I would hardly think any of the barrels he straightens from the production line which may be slightly "off-center" are bent as this one.

In the long run it would probably be cheaper and safer to replace.[/QUOTE]



I would shove it up the client's bottom and see if you couldn't straighten it out that way.

UEG - Is your post referring to OUR current government administration? Sure sounds a lot like what we hear coming out of Washington, huh?

Larry Sellers
SCI (International) Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Nobody knows? Nobody admits? Don't be stupid, everyone of them knows what happened to that rifle. Don't deceive yourself. You have every reason to doubt all of them.

That gun is a pure custom job. It is made especially for shooting at lions hiding behind the tree!

quote:

Originally posted by Hntnhrd:
I loaned a rifle to a client from Europe while he was hear in Montana on his Mountain Lion hunt. When I was at the trailhead with him before sending him into camp, I took the gun out of the soft case and showed him the safety and such and the gun was fine. When I picked them up after being in camp for a week the gun case was soaking wet. I dint look inside but took him back to town and dropped him at a hotel as his flight home was early the next morning. When I got home this is what I found!!!!!




X
Besides being covered with rust there was no other damage to the gun. The guides told me that they did not get into an accident with the snowmobiles and have no idea how this could have happened. I haven't been able to contact the hunter as he is traveling back to Europe. I didnt charge him for the loan of the rifle but I am dam sure going to have a contract from now on about covering damage like this. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

You néed a new client...