Is it feasible to drive from Arusha or Dar to the Selous and how long would it "normally" take, given Africa's definition of "normal"? After being quoted north of $8K for a charter flight in and out for this coming August, I'm thinking that may be a preferable option. As a pilot with a lot of bush experience I find these rates simply unconscionable.

Without knowing the whole story, it's difficult to comment with any accuracy on some parts of your post.... so, a few questions.....

Do you mean you were quoted to charter from Arusha to the selous or Dar to the Selous? - If you've been quoted US$8K for Dar to the Selous and back again, then something's wrong. There are plenty of commercial flights from Arusha to Dar and it would be cheaper to take that option and then charter from Dar.

Which area are you going to in the Selous? - This could make a bif difference to the charter cost..... but probably not that much.

How many in your party..... number of passengers obviously dictate size of aircraft.

It is possible to drive from Arusha to the Selous and I've done it a few times, and it's a nice drive, but it'll take you at least 2 days driving in a 4x4. - More if you need to get to the bottom end of the Selous.

Most of the journey is on tar roads but only until you get to the Selous.

I can't see why its not a good option if its available.
Although I have only been on main roads in Tanz, I have been on some side roads in Kenya, Zambia and Zimbabwe with no problem's, in fact some of those side roads are better than some of our main roads here in Aus.

Guys,

From the client's point of view the two day drive to the Selous may be impractical simply because of the extra time. Often a hunter can take off only 2 weeks at a time and if the total travel time from home to the Selous and return takes even a minimum of 6 days and it could easily be longer it just won't work on a two week schedule.

Of course the safari operator would have a driver and vehicle tied up for longer than normal so he would have to pass that cost onto the client in one form or the other.

In places where the hunting area can be reach in one day or less I encourage people to drive because they see more of real Africa but two butt busting days in each direction is too much of a good thing in my mind.

Mark

If you have the time and can spare a coupla' days do the drive...for all the same sighseeing decisions that might factor into a drive from let's say Los Angeles to the Grand Canyon. It is alot cheaper too, but a bit more taxing on your beehind. In 2004 I hired one of the locals to take me after inspecting his vehicle. After deeming his buggy road-worthy I agreed to pay him $700 dollars (one way) and it was a very pleasant experience. He taught me more Swahili and I taught him more English, and even got behind the wheel when he got tired. Make sure you have all your gun paperwork and make a copy of it too before you head out on the drive. Keep a few 10 and 20 dollar bills handy for cranky guards at check points and it's all good. (I bet I just about had you convinced to do the drive until I then right?)

Moja

Last year in Tanzania I flew into the Selous form Dar and hunted for 2 weeks. We then drove from MKI to Dar in 1 day and then on to Arusha the next day. After we were done hunting we then drove from Arusha back to Dar . I enjoyed the trip and had a lot of fun but it is not for everyone. There are few if any roadside stops that would meet most ladies expectations.

But if you have the time I would recomend it as you will see a lot of different biodivesity (mangrove swamps, Kilimanjaro if its clear) from Dar to Arusha.

quote:

Originally posted by EB:
Is it feasible to drive from Arusha or Dar to the Selous and how long would it "normally" take, given Africa's definition of "normal"? After being quoted north of $8K for a charter flight in and out for this coming August, I'm thinking that may be a preferable option. As a pilot with a lot of bush experience I find these rates simply unconscionable.

8K for that charter is criminal. Somebody is trying to bend you over. But this is a common occurrence with charter rates in Tanzania. Ta operators are a pack of crooks when it comes to these charter fees!

It has been explained to me here several times by various PH's and others why the charter rate is up to 5 times higher in Ta than elsewhere in the world for a given airframe. But I have also been in the business of operating all kinds of aircraft to long to buy any of that crap. Plain and simple they are screwing the client.

My friend, you been had...North of 8 K for a charter out of Dar to anywhere in the Selous is just a plain rip off..I would be very concerned if I were you.

The original post isn't clear on where the charter is from. If the quote is to take him from ARUSHA to the Selous and some time later, to return him from the Selous to ARUSHA, then US$8K is nor impossible...... but like I said in my reply, I don't understand why he would want to travel by charter from Arusha and not Dar.

Surestrike,

You're very mistaken when you paint everyone with the same brush by saying 'Ta operators are a pack of crooks when it comes to these charter fees'. -- Many safari companies, my own included don't make a cent on the charters.

Thanks everyone very much for the responses. They have helped me check my sanity and common sense. In answer to some of the questions. I will be in Nairobi prior to flying to the Selous and could just as easily fly to Dar as Kilimanjaro. It's just me, as the family is leaving from Nairobi and flying home. The outfitter has requested that I fly to Kilimanjaro. Looking at a map, that seems a lot further away from where I will be in the middle of the Selous than Dar, but before I knew the price of the charter, I thought there must be some good logistical reason so didn't seem that bothered by it. It also seems that chartering from Dar would be less expensive and also a quicker flight, and also a much shorter drive if that option is chosen. Am a correct in those assumptions. Finally, with respect to Surestrike's comment, I'm a pilot also with over 4000 hours, alot of it in the back country. I've owned three planes that were used part 135 as air taxi's, so I have a pretty good idea on what it costs to operate say a 206; cherokee 6; saratoga or even a caravan. I'm now trying to determine what they think I will flying in, must be gold plated King Air, which is simply dumb for one guy. The price I was quoted (which I'm told is in the ball park of what many outfitters are now charging) is simply outrageous, even if av gas is $12 a gallon (which I doubt it is, does anyone know what av gas is presently going for in Africa?). Instead of trying to make charters a profit center for the outfitter, just charge more for the hunt, so we can compare apples to apples in chosing our hunts, is all I would like to see. Although I booked this hunt last year, I was ok with some the increases based on what was going on in Tanz, but now a 10 day buff hunt is going to push $4K a day, without counting the airfare over, tips and taxidermy. That's two brown bear hunts all in, a damn fine stone and grizz hunt or 2 1/2 dall and grizz hunts or 3 Dall hunts, with a lot of change left over.....oh well, att least if Barack gets elected I won't have any money left to worry about this stuff.

just to be a bitr different - i usually prefer the drive, even if it is a couple days. #1 I get to see the country that way #2 i'm a cheap bastard and figure my time isn't worth 1500 a day to fly instead of drive. that said if i'm ;aying hunting days at 1500-2000 a day and loosing them driving, then i'll charter.

I really enjoyed the drive from MK1 to Dar. Took about 8 hours as I recall and the photo opportunities were fantastic.

this debate is never-ending. hunting operators think $500-1000/hr of actual flying time is reasonable and always state they are not getting a piece of the action. clients always feel they are getting screwed. some things never change and there is nothing we as clients can do about it. if you want to play, you are going to pay!

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by EB:
Is it feasible to drive from Arusha or Dar to the Selous and how long would it "normally" take, given Africa's definition of "normal"? After being quoted north of $8K for a charter flight in and out for this coming August, I'm thinking that may be a preferable option. As a pilot with a lot of bush experience I find these rates simply unconscionable.

8K for that charter is criminal. Somebody is trying to bend you over. But this is a common occurrence with charter rates in Tanzania. Ta operators are a pack of crooks when it comes to these charter fees!

It has been explained to me here several times by various PH's and others why the charter rate is up to 5 times higher in Ta than elsewhere in the world for a given airframe. But I have also been in the business of operating all kinds of aircraft to long to buy any of that crap. Plain and simple they are screwing the client.

Damn straight!!

EB

Its a guess but I think you vwill find the operator perhaps has no meet/greet people in Dar and therefore wants you to fly into Mount Kilamajaro because it works better for him.

All Selous safaris that I know about originate in Dar unless charter costs are irrelevant to the client. $8,000 is almost 4 times as expensive as what our clients paid last year from Dar to LU5 in the Selous.

Personally I would not book the safari if I had no other choices than an $8,000 charter. Heck your talking a total of $4,000 per day. For that much money you can hunt with us in Masailand for the biggest buffalo in Africa and have money left over for international flights and trophy shipping. Think about it.

Mark

Mark, Thank you for the response. Tomorrow will be an interesting day for my booking agent. I have asked all of these questions and more. We'll see what the answers are....